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Topic ClosedIs "In the court of the crimson king" over-rated?

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pero View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 06:12
Originally posted by Wuschel Wuschel wrote:

I don't get it how so many people call this the best album of all time.  3 out of the 5 songs are'nt even really prog IMO unless you count anything with synths/mellotrone as prog.
Songs like In the court, Epitaph, Talk to the wind are really simple and stretched... the Chorus of "in the court" is repeated like 30 times, the verses sound all the same, epitaph is also just your usual Verse-Chorus-Verse-Chorus order with little variation in the song.
I know that it was innovative at it's time , but i think that it now hasn't enough to offer for a prog album. The only really good song that doesn't feel stretched here is IMO "schizoid man"
 
I agree with you.
 
As album I like more Larks tongues, Red and Islands, but 21 century is for me not only the best KC song, but the best song in prog.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 06:12
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

ahhh.. guess I've found my topic for the night LOL

too important to be written off as overrated... but hahhaha... Moonchild brings that album down in a big way for quality.  The importance is without question.. the album itself... I thought ITWOP a better album.


For me, ITCOTCK was a case of love at first hearing - at the ripe old age of 15. Since then, I've never stopped considering it as one of the real masterpieces of prog - even though perhaps a flawed masterpiece in the same way as, for instance, SEbtP or BSS. Personally, I love the way the band explored different styles - jazz, hard rock, folk, experimental, symphonic prog  - in the space of only five tracks.

ITWOP is also a much better album than it is usually given credit for, but I still think it is not on a par with its predecessor. The title-track is, in my humble opinion, probably the best vocal performance ever by Greg Lake.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 06:57
One of the quintesential albums of prog. history.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 08:28
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Overrated: How can all this millions of idiots don't agree with me that this album is crap if I say it's crap?



Please explain.
 
Simple, it's a definition of overrated as normally used.
 
Overrated is a term based only in our disagreement with the majority opinion.
 
Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 11:24

No it isn't. Oh yes it is! Oh no it isn't. Oh yes it is! Oh no it isn't....

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 12:27
ITCOTCK, Close to the edge and Pawn hearts. the holy trinity of prog. IMO. So the anwser is simply: Hell, no !
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 12:44
ITCOTKC is my favorite album of all time....
If anything, I think it's underrated.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 13:03
It's not called "Best ever" by many, but "(One of the) greatest ever". There's a difference here, between a work of art being "best" and being "great". "Best" at what? There are extremely few cases where the one who sets the rules in a discipline is also the best in accomplishing it's potential (so it's usually "best at something some other guy invented"), and there are many cases when the someone starts a genre, a discipline, without being able to go all the way - but it's the vision that counts. There may be many others who did better in the line of "ITCOTKC". But "ITCOTKC" had the originality that had the influence needed to develop such a wide spectrum of artistic activity... and it was all hidden inside it, there was no random course of action. That's what makes it a great work of art, namely one of the greatest. I couldn't agree more with this kind of rating.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 13:04
bit off-topic: should i get Close to the Edge if I wasn't too impressed by ITC..? Are there also long songs with little variation does happen more there?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 13:15
I have never been so dissapointed by an album as i was by "In the court.."
 
I can still remember listening to it the first time, thinking to myself during moonchild that.... well, probably about the same thing Rick Wakeman thought about Tales from topographic oceans.
Not because it was bad, no, but because i was totally blown away by "21st century schizoid man", and i was hoping for more of the same, but instead i got... Moonchild, haha..
Since then, i've come to apreciate it a lot more, and it's a great album. Not Moonchild, though. And i'll fight to the death whoever claims it is a masterpiece, hahaha!

'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..'
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 13:37
If compared to true masterpieces it would only be a *** album. Defineatly no more than that as that is being generous.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 13:38
Originally posted by Progger Progger wrote:

If compared to true masterpieces it would only be a *** album. Defineatly no more than that as that is being generous.


What, in your view, are true masterpieces then?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 14:11
Originally posted by progismylife progismylife wrote:

Originally posted by Progger Progger wrote:

If compared to true masterpieces it would only be a *** album. Defineatly no more than that as that is being generous.


What, in your view, are true masterpieces then?
 
Knowing Progger, erase Genesis from your list LOL he admits liking some of their older stuff but not outstanding.
 
Let me guess, probably Fragile or Close to the Edge would be his choice.
 
Both great albums anyway CTTE reaches the status of masterpiece ALSO IMHO.
 
My great question is the meaning of the phrase "TRUE MASTERPIECE".
 
Masterpiece is a status with whuich each one of us rates some albums, my masterpieces are different from the ones Progismylife has and of course different from Sean Trane's, even my teammates BHIKKHU, ClemofNazareth or my good friends Raf and Micky have different tastes and they may qualify as masterpiece an album I honestly find average or can't stand, and so they can do with my list.
 
Why somebody's masterpieces have to be true and ours false?
 
That's the problem with arts, there are no exact truths in matter of preferences, for me ITCOTCK is a 100% masterpiece, and remember, I'm far from being a fan of King Crimson, I can't stand albums as Thrak or Bboom and hardly can listen Larks Tongues in Aspic to be honest, but the touch of the genius is something you can feel in your soul if not in your brain, the genius has own light, even if it's too bright or too low for you or me, you can notice it.
 
And believe me I can feel the touch of the genius in King Crimson even if I don't like lets say 80% of their work.
 
Iván
 
 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 21 2007 at 14:29
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 15:42
As far as I'm concerned it's the most overrated Prog album ever along with Close to the Edge and Dark Side of the Moon. That doesn't mean it's bad, I just can't see how people can rate it as the quintessential Prog album. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 17:12

Absolutely no.  It's not over rated. It's one of those albums which gave definition of what prog should sound like; I don't think it's the best album ever in prog history, but certainly one of the most important, and it contains GREAT music, for sure!

]
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 17:17
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by progismylife progismylife wrote:

Originally posted by Progger Progger wrote:

If compared to true masterpieces it would only be a *** album. Defineatly no more than that as that is being generous.


What, in your view, are true masterpieces then?
 
Knowing Progger, erase Genesis from your list LOL he admits liking some of their older stuff but not outstanding.
 
Let me guess, probably Fragile or Close to the Edge would be his choice.
 
Both great albums anyway CTTE reaches the status of masterpiece ALSO IMHO.
 
My great question is the meaning of the phrase "TRUE MASTERPIECE".
 
Masterpiece is a status with whuich each one of us rates some albums, my masterpieces are different from the ones Progismylife has and of course different from Sean Trane's, even my teammates BHIKKHU, ClemofNazareth or my good friends Raf and Micky have different tastes and they may qualify as masterpiece an album I honestly find average or can't stand, and so they can do with my list.
 
Why somebody's masterpieces have to be true and ours false?
 
That's the problem with arts, there are no exact truths in matter of preferences, for me ITCOTCK is a 100% masterpiece, and remember, I'm far from being a fan of King Crimson, I can't stand albums as Thrak or Bboom and hardly can listen Larks Tongues in Aspic to be honest, but the touch of the genius is something you can feel in your soul if not in your brain, the genius has own light, even if it's too bright or too low for you or me, you can notice it.
 
And believe me I can feel the touch of the genius in King Crimson even if I don't like lets say 80% of their work.
 
Iván
 
 
 
I think people tend to equate 'masterpeice' with consistency rather than inspiration.'In The Court...' is easily one of the most inspired albums ever released but that will never be enough for some folksBig%20smile 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 17:47
To me it is over rated, but I don't mind. Its a very important album. Some people love it. I don't.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2007 at 23:10

pshhhhhhhhh. no, i dont think over-rating it is possible.





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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2007 at 17:55

I answer this with an immediate "Hell no!"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2007 at 18:02
Absolutely not. IMHO, it was the first album to break free of psychedelia and stands as the first concrete prog album, though the Moody Blues, Floyd, The Doors, and latter day Beatles all gave prog a head start. Also, the music, though not flawless, is some of the most thought-provoking instrumentality I've ever heard. Normally, lyrics win me over, but the genius displayed here cannot be denied.
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