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Ivan_Melgar_M 
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 Posted: January 19 2008 at 01:23 |
 Avantgardehead wrote:
In my mind, it wouldn't make sense to put a band here just because their solos sounded progressive...
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Neo Classical solos is not Prog necessarilly, there have to be many other things more, hey lets add Walter Murphy because he performed a Disco version of Beethoven's Fifth!!
Yngwie Malmsteen added some NEO CLASSICAL SOLOS, but the structure is just Metal, not more, not less.
A Prog band or composition has to consider the whole stucture, not just a couple of solos artificially added over a 100% Metal structure.
In other words Malmsteen adds a Bach solo while the rest of the band is backuping him with 100% metal paraphernalia that has very little or absolutely no relation with the solo
Yngwie blends nothing, that solo could be added almost over any genre.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 19 2008 at 01:25
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micky
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 01:23 |
The T wrote:
. But guitar virtuosiy alone is not a factor for prog-metal (if it was, let's bring all the Iced Earth, Hammerfall, Primal Fear, Helloween, etc to PA... and believe me, I like some of them, but this is not speedy-fingers-archives.com or shreddingarchives.com...) |
exactly.. it is his impact, his importance, as David said.. that is what sets him above others and make him a worthy addition here.. and keeps others from being considered ... we'd hate to become shreddingarchives.com hahahhah good one Teo...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The T
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 01:27 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Avantgardehead wrote:
I don't understand why people want Metallica here. In their heyday they were thrash metal with neo-classical guitar solos and that's about it. In my mind, it wouldn't make sense to put a band here just because their solos sounded progressive...
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Neo Classical solos is not Prog necessarilly, there have to be many other things more, hey lets add Walter Murphy because he performed a Disco version of Beethoven's Fifth!!
Yngwie Malmsteen added some NEO CLASSICAL SOLOS, but the structure is just Metal, not more, not less.
A Prog band or composition has to consider the whole stucture, not just a couple of solos artificially added over a 100% Metal structure.
In other words Malmsteen adds a Bach solo while the rest of the band is backuping him with 100% metal paraphernalia that has very little or absolutely no relation with the solo
Iv�n |
Avantgardehead's point was about METALLICA... not about Malmsteen....
Even though, as absurd as it sounds, that point doesn't work for the intended target (metallica) but WORKS for Malmsteen, as he's the one with classical solos and metal versions of classical...
I think the point about the solos has been made. Prog-metal would never add Malmsteen... I speak for myself... 1/3 of the team disagrees, and I guess everybody will disagree with his inclusion in PM....
About prog-related, that's another matter... One that could be discussed when time allows for it...
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 01:36 |
The T wrote:
Avantgardehead's point was about METALLICA... not about Malmsteen....
Yes I know T, that's why I deleted the Metallica references, even when I'm not sure about Metallica either.
Even though, as absurd as it sounds, that point doesn't work for the intended target (metallica) but WORKS for Malmsteen, as he's the one with classical solos and metal versions of classical...
That's my point, Yngwie solos are artificial, he could add them over Classic Rock, Jazz, Doisco or even Salsa, but there's no blending of genres, while the band plays 100% straight Metal, he plays artificial solos.
I think the point about the solos has been made. Prog-metal would never add Malmsteen... I speak for myself... 1/3 of the team disagrees, and I guess everybody will disagree with his inclusion in PM....
I knew from the start Malmsteen would not be accepted by Prog Metal.
About prog-related, that's another matter... One that could be discussed when time allows for it...
Then we are turning Prog Related in a dumping ground for non Prog bands, with no Prog relation just because they are popular.
If Malmsteen is related with something is with Neo Classical, and Neo Classical is not Prog necesarilly.
The day he writes a coherent album where he fluently blends Metal and Classical as a whole integral work, then he could have a place in Prog Related or who knows, if the change is radical, maybe even Prog Metal.
But that day hasn't come yet, while his bands plays Metal, pure Metal and nothing but Metal, he adds a couple of Neo Classical solos, that's not making a fusion or a merge, just adding a Baroque topping to his Metal tracks.
Cheers
Iván
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Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 19 2008 at 01:37
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The T
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 01:41 |
Not a bad point at all...
I guess Prog-related is, sadly but really, a sort of "popular-bands-that-quite-didn't-make-it" genre... But I don't make a big deal about it.. After all, it's just a fraction of the whole site...
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micky
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 01:41 |
The T wrote:
Prog-metal would never add Malmsteen... I speak for myself... 1/3 of the team disagrees, and I guess everybody will disagree with his inclusion in PM....
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what decision here is agreed upon by everyone... 
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Atavachron
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 01:42 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Avantgardehead wrote:
In my mind, it wouldn't make sense to put a band here just because their solos sounded progressive...
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Neo Classical solos is not Prog necessarilly, there have to be many other things more, hey lets add Walter Murphy because he performed a Disco version of Beethoven's Fifth!!
Yngwie Malmsteen added some NEO CLASSICAL SOLOS, but the structure is just Metal, not more, not less.
A Prog band or composition has to consider the whole stucture, not just a couple of solos artificially added over a 100% Metal structure.
In other words Malmsteen adds a Bach solo while the rest of the band is backuping him with 100% metal paraphernalia that has very little or absolutely no relation with the solo
Yngwie blends nothing, that solo could be added almost over any genre.
Iv�n |
well not quite, Ivan, his first three albums (at least) compositionally progressed classical metal *far* beyond Blackmore and Gary Moore (both of whom appear on PA in various forms), Roth or Schenker... but it's up to others whether he actually ever appears here and it doesn't really concern me either way
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micky
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 01:43 |
The T wrote:
Not a bad point at all...
I guess Prog-related is, sadly but really, a sort of "popular-bands-that-quite-didn't-make-it" genre... But I don't make a big deal about it.. After all, it's just a fraction of the whole site...
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exactly it isn't a big deal.... it's not like anyone wastes time with it... when was the last major addition to it... Sabbath.. and that was an owner decision.. not pushed by our collabs.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 01:47 |
Atavachron wrote:
well not quite, Ivan, his first three albums (at least) compositionally progressed classical metal *far* beyond Blackmore and Gary Moore (both of whom appear on PA in various forms), Roth or Schenker... but it's up to others whether he actually ever appears here and it doesn't really concern me either way
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word brother David.. and my point.... a decade before.. that kind of merging would be considered prog.. without a doubt..
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Avantgardehead
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Joined: December 29 2006
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 01:47 |
The T wrote:
It's obvious that, while you surely know your avant-garde, your concept of progressive-metal is limited... and also, that you haven't heard Metallica. |
Oh yes, I really don't know anything about progressive metal. Not at all. And I was just guessing about Metallica having neo-classical solos. In fact, I didn't even know they had neo-classical solos because I've never listened to them in my entire life. Please, oh Master of Progressive Metal, teach me about this incredible music that I've never heard because I need to expand my concept therein. Give me a break, I don't care who you think you are, but you have no right to tell me what I do and do not know. Do you know me? Obviously not, so just back away and go feel superior somewhere else, son. And also, upon second thought, I guess the neo-classical solo part does apply to both artists. Unintentionally hilarious!
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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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The T
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 01:54 |
Avantgardehead wrote:
The T wrote:
It's obvious that, while you surely know your avant-garde, your concept of progressive-metal is limited... and also, that you haven't heard Metallica. |
Oh yes, I really don't know anything about progressive metal. Not at all. And I was just guessing about Metallica having neo-classical solos. In fact, I didn't even know they had neo-classical solos because I've never listened to them in my entire life. Please, oh Master of Progressive Metal, teach me about this incredible music that I've never heard because I need to expand my concept therein.
Give me a break, I don't care who you think you are, but you have no right to tell me what I do and do not know. Do you know me? Obviously not, so just back away and go feel superior somewhere else, son.
And also, upon second thought, I guess the neo-classical solo part does apply to both artists. Unintentionally hilarious!
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Edited by The T - January 19 2008 at 02:04
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 02:03 |
micky wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
well not quite, Ivan, his first three albums (at least) compositionally progressed classical metal *far* beyond Blackmore and Gary Moore (both of whom appear on PA in various forms), Roth or Schenker... but it's up to others whether he actually ever appears here and it doesn't really concern me either way
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word brother David.. and my point.... a decade before.. that kind of merging would be considered prog.. without a doubt..
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So...Why not add Vanessa Mae?
She's a Classically trained violin player, at the age of 10 played with London's Philharmonia Orchestra. she was the youngest violinist ever to record the Tchaikovsky and Beethoven violin concertos, made a world tour with the London Mozart Players during the Mozart bicentennial year.
In her albums with her Rock band Red Hot she plays music of:
- Bach
- Vivaldi
- Paganini
- Beethoven
- Bruch
- Brahms
- Pucini
- Ravel
- Etc.
And she evens looks nicer than Malmsteen with her mini skirts  .... But nobody would dream in adding her to Prog Archives, despite she really blends the music because Red Hot plays along with her but the problem is that her music is POP with Classical..
Merging Classical with Rock is not necesarilly Prog, Vanessa Mae plays Pop with Classical while Malmsteen plays Metsal with Classical solos, none of them should be here.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 19 2008 at 02:22
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Avantgardehead
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Joined: December 29 2006
Location: Dublin, OH, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1170
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 02:06 |
The T wrote:
Calm down... nobody calls you anything... relax...enjoy your stay at
PA. It IS possible to have a discussion with you... so let's keep it
musical... don't feel offended or something when there was no intent to
do it... |
Offended? This is hilarious! Gives me something to do!
Edited by Avantgardehead - January 19 2008 at 02:08
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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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micky
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 02:10 |
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alright... we can cool the testosterone here... take it outside and lets stay on Malmsteen.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Atavachron
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Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Points: 64665
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 02:10 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
So...Why not add Vanessa Mae?
She's a Classically trained violin player, at the age of 10 played with London's Philharmonia Orchestra. she was the youngest violinist ever to record the Tchaikovsky and Beethoven violin concertos, made a world tour with the London Mozart Players during the Mozart bicentennial year.
In her albums with her Rock band Red Hot she plays music of:
- Bach
- Vivaldi
- Paganini
- Beethoven
- Bruch
- Brahms
- Pucini
- Ravel
- Etc.
And she evens looks nicer than Malmsteen with her mini skirts ....But nobody would dream in adding her to Prog Archives, despite she really blends the music because Red Hot plays along with her but the problem is that her music is POP with Classical..
Merging Classical with Rock is not necesarilly Prog, Vanessa Mae plays Pop with Classixcal while Malmsteen plays Metsal with Classical solos, none of them should be here IMO.
Iv�n |
yes.. Vanessa Mae for PA !
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Avantgardehead
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Joined: December 29 2006
Location: Dublin, OH, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1170
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 02:10 |
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Malmsteen is hilarious, but annoying. And fat, very very fat...
Edited by Avantgardehead - January 19 2008 at 02:11
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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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Atavachron
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 02:13 |
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oh he's a dope, from what I've seen
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The T
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 02:13 |
The T wrote:
Calm down... nobody calls you anything... relax...enjoy your stay at PA. It IS possible to have a discussion with you... so let's keep it musical... don't feel offended or something when there was no intent to do it...
I'd go even further... Sorry if you thought I was acting "superior"... But about the Metallica thing, let's soon have a discussion so that you can understand what I said. |
Care to read my avantgarde friend?
Don't erase your HD though... you don't want ME to be the reason of future pain...
So now that we're both open minded, we can, someday, discuss other matters... Now let's leave it here...
And for the rest, I repeat my opinion: Malsmteen does NOT belong in prog-metal... He has never been even considered as I can see in the chart, but he could be added just to have a sure vote of the other members...
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micky
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 02:14 |
Atavachron wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
So...Why not add Vanessa Mae?
She's a Classically trained violin player, at the age of 10 played with London's Philharmonia Orchestra. she was the youngest violinist ever to record the Tchaikovsky and Beethoven violin concertos, made a world tour with the London Mozart Players during the Mozart bicentennial year.
In her albums with her Rock band Red Hot she plays music of:
- Bach
- Vivaldi
- Paganini
- Beethoven
- Bruch
- Brahms
- Pucini
- Ravel
- Etc.
And she evens looks nicer than Malmsteen with her mini skirts ....But nobody would dream in adding her to Prog Archives, despite she really blends the music because Red Hot plays along with her but the problem is that her music is POP with Classical..
Merging Classical with Rock is not necesarilly Prog, Vanessa Mae plays Pop with Classixcal while Malmsteen plays Metsal with Classical solos, none of them should be here IMO.
Iv�n |
yes.. Vanessa Mae for PA !
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why not.. after Malmsteen hahahhah
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Avantgardehead
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Location: Dublin, OH, USA
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Posted: January 19 2008 at 02:15 |
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Why not add Joe Satriani and Eric Johnson next, that way we could have all the G3 guys (that I know of).
Edited by Avantgardehead - January 19 2008 at 02:16
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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Yngwie Malmsteen
