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Divisive Prog Albums |
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Lewian ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 15562 |
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Of course my definition of "divisive" is just made up and you can have another one. Particularly I didn't specify a minimum number of ratings overall but I should, for being thorough (maybe 100 or 200). I have my reasons though; I say at least 20% 5 stars as there need to be enough people to defend an album passionately for being "divisive". Also higher ratings are generally preferred, therefore 20% isn't really that much. Almost everybody gives 4 stars to almost everything, so the number of 4 star ratings doesn't really indicate a polarising album, but as I said, you may disagree. Alternatively you can think of an album that has a very few really passionate fans and is not appreciated by many as "divisive" though (I'd defend Beat, ALT, and Ummagumma for sure). I found it interesting how few people actually rate albums such as Topographic Oceans, Passion Play, or even Tago Mago low, given that we have in mind that there are some haters (not necessarily meant in a negative way; I'd give one of these 2 stars myself ![]() Anyway, Steven Wilson comes closer with To The Bone (18:16). You can check it yourself easily of course.
Edited by Lewian - May 08 2023 at 15:23 |
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Lewian ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 15562 |
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On PA I haven't seen much enthusiasm. Some like it but I don't think very passionately. Maybe it finds more love elsewhere.
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Cristi ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 46851 |
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You're right Check out the rating summary on metalstorm Edited by Cristi - May 08 2023 at 15:29 |
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Lewian ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 15562 |
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Yeah, subjective perception of "divisive" can be different from the numbers. I suspect people who give Topographic Oceans 3 stars think they're rather disappointed and negative given how good Yes were otherwise roughly at that time, whereas those who give Abacab 3 stars (even maybe the same people) think they're rather positive as they kind of like the album and rate it better than what they hear from others. Numbers are good at showing such things. Of course if there is a huge number of ratings as for the Yes albums, even small percentages amount to a fairly large number of people.
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David_D ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15838 |
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If to be quite serious about this "divisive" stuff, I'd say: 4-5 stars - "likes" 1-2 stars - "dislikes" an album is "divisive" when ratings are: 1. likes% circa equal to dislikes% 2. likes + dislikes = at least 60% of all ratings 3. minimum 300 persons have rated But that might be too serious. ![]() |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Lewian ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 15562 |
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That's a pretty tough one. It'll rule out most albums we have talked about. |
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David_D ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15838 |
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Just something to think about, and you have surely more experience to make a more realistic definition, which might be interesting to see. ![]() |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Lewian ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 15562 |
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Well, I'm fine with the one I already have.
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siLLy puPPy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15456 |
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Yes. That's exactly what i'm presuming. I didn't like it either at first until i invested a great deal of time in unlocking its secrets.
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siLLy puPPy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15456 |
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I honestly don't care enough to waste my time. Pisspoor reviews only reflect the integrity of the person posting them.
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siLLy puPPy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15456 |
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My take on "divisive" albums is that an album didn't sound like a favorite that came before. That meaning it deviated significantly from what the listener expected RATHER THAN judging the album on its own merit. On some albums in the prog realm for example, the artists presumed the audience was keeping up with them musically and intellectually and found there was a glass ceiling that didn't realize. Divisive albums such as TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS seem to divide musicians and non-musicians. Nothing new of course, bands like Gnidrolog faced this same dilemma. Nothing wrong with anybody not liking any album of course. It's all personal but to call an album crap because you don't get it is another thing. I hate Genesis' Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme for the most part but i realize many people love these albums and i'm the one who doesn't get it. Recognize you have blind spots, peeps! It's just the reality of being human :) |
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Frets N Worries ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 30 2023 Location: Your Basement Status: Offline Points: 4261 |
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I recognize there are albums that I love that other people hate or just don't get why I like so much, that's the beauty of opinions, this is probably sacrelige, but one of my favorite albums is 'Hotel California', heck, it's probably my favorite album. I LOVE prog rock (obiously) yet I'm not a Genesis fan, yet I respect that they've all got incredible talent, I'm just not a fan, I'm just here to hear other people's unpopular opinions
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The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.
Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
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Frets N Worries ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 30 2023 Location: Your Basement Status: Offline Points: 4261 |
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Is admitting I'm a huge Eagles fan and owning all their albums on vinyl going to get me banned from prog archives? I hope not
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The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.
Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
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Lewian ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 15562 |
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People have been beheaded for less.
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cstack3 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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Heresy! I consider it one of the best albums ever recorded, of any genre. My offering would have been "The Lamb." Some creative editing would have made it more cogent & powerful. Here, worship The King! |
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30370 |
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Interesting but a lot of people find it uninspired and lacking the same punch, ideas or invention that was evident on Close To The Edge. It also felt very much like Howe/Anderson project rather than something everyone in the band was invested in. Even Rick Wakeman had his reservations and thought that the 4 x 20 minute strict format was just too 'artificial' resulting in the music padded out to fill the times. That's not how great music is created imo. So I don't think people are incorrect in their views or fail to understand what good music is about necessarily. It may not actually be that good when it comes down to it. However its almost notorious status has lead it to almost be the most famous prog album ever made and even non prog fans are aware of its existence! My feeling is that it probably could have been better. The next album Relayer was better because it seemed to make the best of everyone's talents. White could 'smash' up a kit as well as anyone and Moraz was well suited to the more technical approach they adopted. Why they didn't build on this puzzles me, possibly the determination to get the now more famous Wakeman back into the band by Brian Lane was a factor but I haven't looked into it that deeply.
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Frets N Worries ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 30 2023 Location: Your Basement Status: Offline Points: 4261 |
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I've got a first pressing of Tales, it sounds amazing, however... I do think the Steven Wilson Remix was an improvement
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The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.
Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
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siLLy puPPy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15456 |
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^ that's a great point. When certain individuals take control over the project it can rub people the wrong way. I don't engage in the bureaucracy so to speak. I just find it a brilliant album ( but not always so). It's an album that requires more investment than what came before. I get why many don't like it but as someone who didn't initially i can also see the light at the end of the tunnel so to speak.
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Frets N Worries ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 30 2023 Location: Your Basement Status: Offline Points: 4261 |
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Perhaps another reason why I like Tales is it was the first record i've bought withouth actually listening to anything off of it first. I found a very nice copy for about $17, ordered it, listened to it, and was blown away. Sometimes it's ok to judge a book by it's cover. The original album was amazing, but was lacking in production value in some spots, so when Steven Wilson remixed it, it just made everything sound clearer, I had also just gotten wisdom teeth out, and had a ton of pain meds in me, so maybe that had something to do with it.
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The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.
Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
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siLLy puPPy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15456 |
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^ that's also a great point. Sometimes i find a remastered album the ticket to the brilliance intended! In other cases it doesn't matter or diminishes. A crap shoot!
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