Genesis documentary

I haven't seen it, but based on what I've read here, it appears that Genesis (i.e. Tony and Mike, with Phil) are trying to distance themselves from their "prog" legacy.   These days, it's "cooler" to like their early PG stuff, even though the pop 80s stuff was much more commercially successful.  Back when it was contemporary and popular, the 80s pop stuff was well received and respected by most.  It stood out amongst the fine competition 80s radio had to offer.  

Nowadays it's more commonplace to read opinions that treat that era as if it were a cancer that no one asked for and no one wanted, and that would probably gall me if I were part of its creation too.   Tony, Mike and Phil put Genesis in everyone's household for about 10 years, and did it with generally good music that they can be proud of.  How dare the proggers and nouveau tastemakers write off that period of their history like it was crap.

Thus, it's my theory that Tony and Mike wish to redress that balance a bit - by putting more emphasis on Genesis's considerable pop legacy at the expense of their prog legacy, great though it is.  Any documentary has to make hard choices as to what to leave in and what to leave out.  Any such choices are bound to divide opinion.

Now if I can just watch the damn thing I can see if I'm close to the mark or not.

Somebody must have put it on u-tube surely!

HolyMoly wrote: it appears that Genesis (i.e. Tony and Mike, with Phil) are trying to distance themselves from their "prog" legacy.   These days, it's "cooler" to like their early PG stuff, even though the pop 80s stuff was much more commercially successful.  Back when it was contemporary and popular, the 80s pop stuff was well received and respected by most.  It stood out amongst the fine competition 80s radio had to offer. Nowadays it's more commonplace to read opinions that treat that era as if it were a cancer that no one asked for and no one wanted, and that would probably gall me if I were part of its creation too.   Tony, Mike and Phil put Genesis in everyone's household for about 10 years, and did it with generally good music that they can be proud of.  How dare the proggers and nouveau tastemakers write off that period of their history like it was crap.Thus, it's my theory that Tony and Mike wish to redress that balance a bit - by putting more emphasis on Genesis's considerable pop legacy at the expense of their prog legacy, great though it is.

That is an excellent post, Steve, and it occured to me that we really are all a bunch of trendy dismissive prog-snob f**kers!

It's strange that it's the proggers opinions that seems to carry more weight about Genesis these days than the poppers, even though we are SO small in number compared to those endless millions of people that embraced them in their 80's pop era.

Edited by Aussie-Byrd-Brother - October 07 2014 at 13:17

The documentary even shows the sex pistols and again gives us the "New wave Killed prog" argument - as we all know the REALLY BIG prog acts had already split or decided to make shed loads of cash....but in little holes the prog-genes were kept alive by intelligent musicians!!
Plenty of Good prog in the early eighties if you knew where to find it......

Edited by M27Barney - October 07 2014 at 13:26

^ didn't Rutherford say something like there was always a 13 minute song on even the later albums? I thought at the time that was stretching a point to say the least. Have cake and will eat. Yummy.

Genesis success in the 80's followed the same trajectory as Phil's career--no Phil no Genesis----he wrote most of the pop hits of the 80's or a least co-wrote them---of course they tied it in with a big stage show---they were a blend of pop and pop prog--(which is what Yes has wanted to do for years) ----but IMO---Collins success (nearly as big as Michael Jackson) had lot's of overflow for Genesis post Peter and Steve. And because the success is really based on Phil--you would think Tony (who was fairly prog at heart) would admit that the 70's made some magical music. As soon as Phil left there was no Genesis---

Edited by twosteves - October 07 2014 at 17:49

I just read a post on Face Book from Steve Hackett, in which he seems to have gotten many comments from fans about how upset they were about the way he was treated in this documentary. He was giving thanks and confirming that he did say a lot in the interviews, it's just that his parts didn't make the final cut, and he is indeed rather displeased with it. He actually stated that he wouldn't be offering it at his online store (though he would have the new compilation available).

HolyMoly wrote: I haven't seen it, but based on what I've read here, it appears that Genesis (i.e. Tony and Mike, with Phil) are trying to distance themselves from their "prog" legacy.   These days, it's "cooler" to like their early PG stuff, even though the pop 80s stuff was much more commercially successful.  Back when it was contemporary and popular, the 80s pop stuff was well received and respected by most.  It stood out amongst the fine competition 80s radio had to offer.   Nowadays it's more commonplace to read opinions that treat that era as if it were a cancer that no one asked for and no one wanted, and that would probably gall me if I were part of its creation too.   Tony, Mike and Phil put Genesis in everyone's household for about 10 years, and did it with generally good music that they can be proud of.  How dare the proggers and nouveau tastemakers write off that period of their history like it was crap.

How things have flipped around. In the late 80s I remember being infuriated by an interview with Genesis in Q magazine. The interviewer took the position that only a fool could fail to appreciate that the current version of Genesis was on an infinitely higher artistic level to the embarrassing and pretentious 70s output, and that anyone who listened to the Prog era (mostly early 70s students the writer suggested) had in effect been "had" and ought to have grown out of it.

The Genesis pop era is largely ruined (for me at least) by the dreadful 80s production, particularly on albums like Invisible Touch. Not normally one to take cheap shots at Phil Collins (honest!) but that crashing drum sound he pioneered was used by nearly everyone in the 80s and I came to truly loathe it. It'll be interesting to see whether posterity comes down in favour of the Prog or the Pop era - seems to be veering towards Prog at the moment.

Cactus Choir wrote: HolyMoly wrote: I haven't seen it, but based on what I've read here, it appears that Genesis (i.e. Tony and Mike, with Phil) are trying to distance themselves from their "prog" legacy.   These days, it's "cooler" to like their early PG stuff, even though the pop 80s stuff was much more commercially successful.  Back when it was contemporary and popular, the 80s pop stuff was well received and respected by most.  It stood out amongst the fine competition 80s radio had to offer.   Nowadays it's more commonplace to read opinions that treat that era as if it were a cancer that no one asked for and no one wanted, and that would probably gall me if I were part of its creation too.   Tony, Mike and Phil put Genesis in everyone's household for about 10 years, and did it with generally good music that they can be proud of.  How dare the proggers and nouveau tastemakers write off that period of their history like it was crap.   How things have flipped around. In the late 80s I remember being infuriated by an interview with Genesis in Q magazine. The interviewer took the position that only a fool could fail to appreciate that the current version of Genesis was on an infinitely higher artistic level to the embarrassing and pretentious 70s output, and that anyone who listened to the Prog era (mostly early 70s students the writer suggested) had in effect been "had" and ought to have grown out of it. The Genesis pop era is largely ruined (for me at least) by the dreadful 80s production, particularly on albums like Invisible Touch. Not normally one to take cheap shots at Phil Collins (honest!) but that crashing drum sound he pioneered was used by nearly everyone in the 80s and I came to truly loathe it. It'll be interesting to see whether posterity comes down in favour of the Prog or the Pop era - seems to be veering towards Prog at the moment.

 
It seems that most people think of commercial success as something to be proud of, but I wouldn't agree with them as it obviously doesn't necessarily mean good music at all. For what I've read here Banks rather surprisingly thinks like the general people. I would like to know what is his opinion about his solo stuff as it evidently commercially was a total ruin!

Cactus Choir wrote: Rick Robson wrote: It seems that most people think of commercial success as something to be proud of, but I wouldn't agree with them as it obviously doesn't necessarily mean good music at all. For what I've read here Banks rather surprisingly thinks like the general people. I would like to know what is his opinion about his solo stuff as it evidently commercially was a total ruin! This reminds me of going to see Steve Winwood a few years back. He cranked out a storming version of Spencer Davis' Gimme Some Lovin' on the Hammond Organ, then did Traffic's Dear Mr Fantasy complete with a majestic guitar solo. These were politely received by most of the crowd, but what they really went wild for was the 80s stuff like Bring Me a Higher Love.

Oh man