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Divisive Prog Albums
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Negoba View Drop Down
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

I also dislike Tago Mago. Are you assuming I can't understand or process it?

Ash Ra Tempel's debut is one of my favorite all time albums, BTW.


Yes. That's exactly what i'm presuming. I didn't like it either at first until i invested a great deal of time in unlocking its secrets.

I've spent a fair bit of time with it as well. It just doesn't connect with me. Which is fine. There are so many factors that go into what resonates with one individual and what doesn't.

Maybe I'm missing some sarcasm.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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How about this:

1. at least 30% 5 stars
2. at least 20% 1-2 stars
3. minimum 300 ratings
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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It seems to me that divisive albums are those that play with peoples expectations or preconcieved notions. On the one hand we have some one who buys an album after hearing one track and is disappointed that the rest of the album doesn't stir the same response. On the other hand we have someone who buys an album and is disappointed that it isn't representetive of the sound they have come to expect from that particular artist.

Probably the most divisive albums are those that have picked up strong followings over the years, that newcomers have a problem undertanding the attraction to. This for me is understandable. After all, these albums have sat in peoples lives for decades in some cases, and it is hard to replicate those accumulated emotions by anyone on their first listen. So the initial reaction is most likely "I don't see what all the fuss is about." 

Then of course there are the contrarians.  

Music is all about emotions and can be a love-hate thing at times. So, these divisive albums may be either loved or hated, but they do have a way of stimulating the thought process, especially when it comes to justifying an opinion.




Edited by Hugh Manatee - May 08 2023 at 21:00
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


If to be quite serious about this "divisive" stuff, I'd say:

4-5 stars  -  "likes"
1-2 stars  -  "dislikes"

an album is "divisive" when ratings are:

1. likes% circa equal to dislikes% 
2. likes + dislikes = at least 60% of all ratings
3. minimum 300 persons have rated

But that might be too serious. Big smile

The reason this doesn't really work (imo), is that on places such as PA, RYM, Sputnikmusic etc... where everyone with an account can rate an album, is that the lion's share of raters are fans of the band to begin with. I know perfectly well what I think of certain ELP, Dream Theater... Marillion-albums, but I've only rated one album from all three of them (Brain Salad Surgery). Long before I finished say Images and Words, I've just stopped. By then I know there's no hope in hell we're gonna connect. It would still be unfair to rate an album I've listened to less than 1/3rd of. So I don't. But I've rated other typically divisive albums such as Trout Mask Replica, Zeit, Tago Mago, Tales, Passion Play, The Seer... maybe Hellfire (by Black Midi). As I care more to begin with - and feel more qualified to have an opinion. I still know Zeit and Tago Mago are quite divisive, although it doesn't really show that clearly using yours-or Lewians statistics. They are both typically more popular outside of PA as well. While Wobbler, Harmonium, Bacamarte, Anglagard... who ticks all the right prog rock-boxes are PA heavyweights compared to those, while more obscure elsewhere.

Btw: a candidate that feels relevant is Radiohead's Kid A (placed 1st for it's year of release, and an all time 6th on RYM). Arguely the biggest (semi)active progressive band on the planet, but easy to find people reacting like overmatic:

2 stars Wow, when I thought I had seen it all... I don't know what happened to this band after OK Computer, but something did. Just like Talk Talk before they thought they could succeed in trying something new. The problem is, new isn't always good, and with this album the results were catastrophic.

The album is monophonic, monotonous and uninspired. All the progressive traces of earlier albums were thrown in the garbage, and we are left with plain boring repetition. Also, what happened to their lyrics? But if all that wasn't enough, just one more argument to disqualify this terrible album, the total absence of melodies.

Anyway, I can't believe how they can manage to continue fooling people into buying that what they are doing has the smallest resemblance of competent music.

-

-and I know quite a few active membere here largely agrees with all of this. They are all wrong of course:)



Edited by Saperlipopette! - May 09 2023 at 03:56
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I assume we're talking divisive amongst prog fans and not music fans in general. But even then, there's a difference between something being divisive here on PA, and divisive in the broader prog community.
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

I assume we're talking divisive amongst prog fans and not music fans in general. But even then, there's a difference between something being divisive here on PA, and divisive in the broader prog community.
I'm talking about divisive prog albums. And only that. Most who's got a relation to divisive prog albums are probably prog fans to an extent anyway. I do I find outside perspectives more interesting than just being in a bubble. But you can have your perspective and I can have mine.
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

<span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">Undoubtedly, </span>The YES Album<span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"> that's been the Big Generator</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"> of the most controversy over the years is Tales from Topographic Oceans</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">. YES</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">, it's a long double album with four long Yessongs, </span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">which was treated as something of a rotten Tormato </span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">by the cynical music press, but if you Open Your Eyes</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">, you'll gain The Keys to Ascension</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"> and realise what a classic album this is. The album came Close to the Edge</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"> of splitting the band up, when there was a Magnification</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"> of tensions within the group with so many Fragile</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"> egos at stake. In the ensuing [COLOR=red]Drama</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;], Time and a Word[/COLOR]</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"> has it that Rick Wakeman threatened to walk out during the recording of the album. The album climbed The Ladder</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"> of success though, topping the UK album charts for two weeks. Rick Wakeman left the band and didn't appear on the following Relayer</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"> album. There was Talk</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"> of a re-Union</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">, but Heaven & Earth</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"> had to be moved to persuade Rick to return for the Going for the One</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"> album in 1977. The best-selling YES</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"> album of all time though, released in 1983, was famously named after its catalogue number, 90125. Smile</span>



I like it. Can someone explain to me why where. Having a pop at progressive rock albums. In fact any music for that matter. Theses musicians I’m going to mention have their fair share of haters here. Guy Manning, The Tangent and Parallel Or 90 Degrees
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Looking at typical percentages I'd say that a divisive album should at least have 20% 5 star ratings and at least 10% 2 or 1 star ....

Sorry, I didn't really notice this. Embarrassed
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Almost everybody gives 4 stars to almost everything, ....

I won't say, I agree with that, but PA users seem definitely to be more generous than RYM raters of Progressive Rock.
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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But what interesting can be said about divisive albums, as there's surely something special about them?
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Almost everybody gives 4 stars to almost everything, ....

I don't think so, 4 star means essential album so if everything gets 4 stars, it means everything is essential. ConfusedLOL
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I've thought of an album I consider at least, Divisive, 'Starless and Bible Black' now, this may be a controversial opinion, but I do not like this album, maybe I need to listen to it a 5th time, but it's just never clicked for me.
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Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

I've thought of an album I consider at least, Divisive, 'Starless and Bible Black' now, this may be a controversial opinion, but I do not like this album, maybe I need to listen to it a 5th time, but it's just never clicked for me.

so how is the album divisive? Confused
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Almost everybody gives 4 stars to almost everything, ....

I don't think so, 4 star means essential album so if everything gets 4 stars, it means everything is essential. ConfusedLOL


I think it's more the case that most people rate and review albums they like as opposed to albums they don't.

I am utterly amazed at how many quality 4 star albums exist.

There's nothing wrong with too much essential music!

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Using Lewian's formula

Radiohead - Kid A - 40% 5 star, 10% 1 or 2 star - so divisive

In fact The Bends, Amnesiac, In Rainbows & Moon Shaped Pool all qualify, are Radiohead the most divisive band?

KC - Starless & Bible Black only has 4% 1 & 2 star ratings so it's not divisive you just don't like it Smile

King Crimson don't have any divisive albums, the closest they get is Thrak 19:7
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Almost everybody gives 4 stars to almost everything, ....

I don't think so, 4 star means essential album so if everything gets 4 stars, it means everything is essential. ConfusedLOL

Looking at my collection and the inverse of essential, i.e. how many albums I could do without, I'm not surprised there are so many 4 star albums. My Precioussss.
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Clearly, judging from the diverse comments here so far, King Crimson are one of the most divisive prog bands of all time. Smile

If you have The Power to Believe, imagine sailing through treacherous seas In the Wake of Poseidon to a land far far away on one of the world's remote Islands, where the Red-haired man reigns In the Court of the Crimson King. Out on deck on The Night Watch under a Starless and Bible Black sky, you marvel at The Construction of Light in a thunder storm as you hear the Thrak of a lightning bolt in the distance. You play cards to pass the time on the long voyage, but lose again when you realise you can't Beat a hand containing Three of a Perfect Pair. You don't have the Discipline to concentrate at cards against an opponent with eyes darting around like a Lizard who sees everything, so you decide to Beat a retreat down to the galley where the ship's cook serves up an exotic dish of Larks' Tongues in Aspic, washed down with a glass of Red wine. You retire to your cabin and quickly drift off to sleep as the ship continues on its Earthbound voyage...
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Clearly, judging from the diverse comments here so far, King Crimson are one of the most divisive prog bands of all time. Smile

If you have The Power to Believe, imagine sailing through treacherous seas In the Wake of Poseidon to a land far far away on one of the world's remote Islands, where the Red-haired man reigns In the Court of the Crimson King. Out on deck on The Night Watch under a Starless and Bible Black sky, you marvel at The Construction of Light in a thunder storm as you hear the Thrak of a lightning bolt in the distance. You play cards to pass the time on the long voyage, but lose again when you realise you can't Beat a hand containing Three of a Perfect Pair. You don't have the Discipline to concentrate at cards against an opponent with eyes darting around like a Lizard who sees everything, so you decide to Beat a retreat down to the galley where the ship's cook serves up an exotic dish of Larks' Tongues in Aspic, washed down with a glass of Red wine. You retire to your cabin and quickly drift off to sleep as the ship continues on its Earthbound voyage...

Paul - I literally just posted that KC have zero devisive albums whereas Radiohead have 5 divisive albums!

You not liking a band does not make them divisive it just puts you out of step with the general population of PA. We already knew this!


Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - May 09 2023 at 07:51
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Almost everybody gives 4 stars to almost everything, ....

I don't think so, 4 star means essential album so if everything gets 4 stars, it means everything is essential. ConfusedLOL


Oodles of folks give 4 star reviews... almost exclusively. Cry
If I rate album 4 star...it means I own it and I love it.
 My average rating is around  2.9- 3.0  Wink  
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I have a clear majority of 4 star reviews (and I don't rate much without review) but this rather means that I'm more motivated to review an album I love; it doesn't mean that half of the existing prog music is worth 4 stars for me.
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