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Topic ClosedCheesy Prog is....??
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Snow Dog View Drop Down
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2012 at 10:01
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Equally, it's absurd and uncomfortable to play, you can't even grab the center guitar properly

T

Chris plays it succesfully so you are obviously wrong.
 

Chris is an exception, he's 1.95 meters (6.4 feet) and have long arms, but the normal player won't have the chance to reach it.

I still believe it's some sort of exhibitionism

Iván

Maybe it is...sometimes...I don't happen to think so, but there you go. Even if it is...can't say I care. Rush used double necks on quite a few old songs. Totally practical. Alex still does use a double neck on Xanadu. Don't think he is posing  at his  age. 

but we  disagree, as  usual, that's ok too.Smile

The double neck was interesting,it can be played easily by a talented musician (Look at Mike Rutherford).

Iván

Had forgotten about Rutherford. 
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Points: 1321 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2012 at 10:09
Originally posted by SolarLuna96 SolarLuna96 wrote:

Originally posted by The Mystical The Mystical wrote:

Cheesy doesn't mean bad.
True, it can be rather gouda, in fact

This masterful pun has not gone unnoticed.
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Points: 5153 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2012 at 10:34
There are other ways of fitting more strings than adding necks to an increasingly bulky instrument.
Pat Metheny's 42-string Pikasso guitar is actually quite compact.
 
In the link a few words by its luthier Linda Manzer.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2012 at 10:59
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

There are other ways of fitting more strings than adding necks to an increasingly bulky instrument.
Pat Metheny's 42-string Pikasso guitar is actually quite compact.
 
In the link a few words by its luthier Linda Manzer.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Beautiful and comfortable design.

Still...Does somebody need 48 strings in one song?
            
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Points: 6815 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2012 at 12:15
This is John Paul Jones playing his multi-neck acoustic, built by Andy Manson in the UK....mandolin, mando-cello and bass mandolin I think!!

Here's more on this instrument, Andy Manson is the brother of the chap who built my own fretless bass (in my avatar), Hugh Manson.  http://www.led-zeppelin.org/joomla/studio-and-live-gear/1437

I don't think these multi-neck things are cheesy at all if they are used in an artistically honest manner & augment the music onstage.  However, there are many examples of "cheesy guitars" out there, more to follow!  




Edited by cstack3 - July 17 2012 at 14:43
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Points: 6815 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2012 at 14:40
Other genres are probably more guilty of the "cheese" label than prog is. 

Here's Rick Nielsen of Cheap Trick, displaying a rather excessive and quite cheesy stage axe!  I think this one ended up stolen.  Oh well.  Made by Hamer, who make some damn nice guitars!  
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Points: 3136 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2012 at 16:04
I have always equated Cheesiness - with over-sentimentality - Thus I consider that ONLY ballads can be considered "True" cheese, wimmin of course love cheese (well most of em anyway) - Carpenters = Cheese , Bee-gees = Cheese, in fact most pop ballads = cheese. "Your own special way" is definately on the thin end of the WEDGE...Tongue
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Points: 5153 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2012 at 17:03
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

There are other ways of fitting more strings than adding necks to an increasingly bulky instrument.
Pat Metheny's 42-string Pikasso guitar is actually quite compact.
 
In the link a few words by its luthier Linda Manzer.
 

Beautiful and comfortable design.

Still...Does somebody need 48 strings in one song?
 
 
Well, only somebody wanting to play music like this.
Note that he frequently uses the "normal" 6-string guitar neck (tapping it only with his left hand) for playing the background keyboard-like sound, it acts as a controller for his Synclavier (perhaps nowadays it's a more modern sampler).
 
Metheny is not a showman and he is not into show-off b*st, he is a true musician, he has his experimental side and he can toy with things like this guitar, his Orchestrion or his Synclavier Roland guitar controller, but it's always with the purpose of stretching his musical boundaries.
 
 
 
 


Edited by Gerinski - July 17 2012 at 17:24
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Points: 5153 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2012 at 17:23
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

I have always equated Cheesiness - with over-sentimentality - Thus I consider that ONLY ballads can be considered "True" cheese, wimmin of course love cheese (well most of em anyway) - Carpenters = Cheese , Bee-gees = Cheese, in fact most pop ballads = cheese. "Your own special way" is definately on the thin end of the WEDGE...Tongue
 
Not necessarily ballads IMO, but also melodies which are blatantly pop based, for example take a chord progression & melody which is ABBA-like and arrange it into prog fashion by making a few sig changes, breaks and prog instrumentation. Even when you keep it as a mid-fast tempo and rather energetic song, the result will be cheesy prog.
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2012 at 22:28
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

There are other ways of fitting more strings than adding necks to an increasingly bulky instrument.
Pat Metheny's 42-string Pikasso guitar is actually quite compact.
 
In the link a few words by its luthier Linda Manzer.
 

Beautiful and comfortable design.

Still...Does somebody need 48 strings in one song?
 
 
Well, only somebody wanting to play music like this.
Note that he frequently uses the "normal" 6-string guitar neck (tapping it only with his left hand) for playing the background keyboard-like sound, it acts as a controller for his Synclavier (perhaps nowadays it's a more modern sampler).
 
Metheny is not a showman and he is not into show-off b*st, he is a true musician, he has his experimental side and he can toy with things like this guitar, his Orchestrion or his Synclavier Roland guitar controller, but it's always with the purpose of stretching his musical boundaries.
 
 
 
 

To be honest, I like that one, it looks very simple, apparently seems that he controls all the strings with only one necck, great music, even when it's not my cup of tea.

Iván
            
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Points: 6815 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2012 at 00:28
Thanks for the Pat Matheny videos!  He shows that, despite its odd looks, the instrument is very playable and capable of producing some beautiful music!   

On the other hand, THIS thing would peg the cheese-meter!  Not sure if this is real or a joke, but I could see some heavy metal act dragging this out for laughs....cheeee-sy!   Oh, wait a minute, it's ART!!  http://my.opera.com/stratstrangler/blog/index.dml/tag/12-neck%20Strat



Edited by cstack3 - July 18 2012 at 00:31
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2012 at 03:17
^ LOL Oh, my god. I can't even look at it.
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Points: 8577 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2012 at 10:18
Not sure what an instrument's appearance has to do with cheesiness. If someone can actually play a piece of cheese and make decent music out of it, that's another thing.

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Points: 5153 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2012 at 10:29
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

  
Well, only somebody wanting to play music like this.
Note that he frequently uses the "normal" 6-string guitar neck (tapping it only with his left hand) for playing the background keyboard-like sound, it acts as a controller for his Synclavier (perhaps nowadays it's a more modern sampler).
 
Metheny is not a showman and he is not into show-off b*st, he is a true musician, he has his experimental side and he can toy with things like this guitar, his Orchestrion or his Synclavier Roland guitar controller, but it's always with the purpose of stretching his musical boundaries.
 
 
 
 

To be honest, I like that one, it looks very simple, apparently seems that he controls all the strings with only one necck, great music, even when it's not my cup of tea.

Iván
[/QUOTE]
 
I can only commiserate the poor roadie who has to re-string and tune the damn thing every few shows LOL
 
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Points: 2111 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2012 at 11:08
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

There are other ways of fitting more strings than adding necks to an increasingly bulky instrument.
Pat Metheny's 42-string Pikasso guitar is actually quite compact.
 
In the link a few words by its luthier Linda Manzer.
 
 
 
 
 
 

The main problem with this instrument isn't that it has 42-strings but rather that it's actually rather limited in sound. You can't chord with it and the main guitar neck might as well be a bass because all Metheny was doing with it was playing bass lines. All in all, a pretty useless instrument. Metheny's Into the Dream debuted this instrument, but it seems that this is the only kind of music he can make with it which gives every "new" piece he writes for it the same kind of feeling and sound.


Edited by Mirror Image - July 18 2012 at 11:09
“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2012 at 13:00
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Thanks for the Pat Matheny videos!  He shows that, despite its odd looks, the instrument is very playable and capable of producing some beautiful music!   

On the other hand, THIS thing would peg the cheese-meter!  Not sure if this is real or a joke, but I could see some heavy metal act dragging this out for laughs....cheeee-sy!   Oh, wait a minute, it's ART!!  http://my.opera.com/stratstrangler/blog/index.dml/tag/12-neck%20Strat


This is a design by Yoshiniko Satoh, but not tthe only prototype:




 and 



All are playable but knowing nobody sane would want  them, he created a musseum.

Iván
            
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Points: 1768 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2012 at 13:13
I wonder, no one posted this, yet Tongue :
Visit me in Second Life to talk about music.
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Points: 6815 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2012 at 17:31
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Not sure what an instrument's appearance has to do with cheesiness. If someone can actually play a piece of cheese and make decent music out of it, that's another thing.

It doesn't, really, except if the musician goes overboard with the instrument and it becomes a gimmick rather than a vehicle for musical expression.  

John McLaughin and Mike Rutherford were early pioneers of the double-neck instrument, and they showed that, despite its unusual looks, the instruments could evoke powerful music and emotion!  

On the other hand, the multi-neck CAN be used to evoke cheesy humor!  Here's one of my favorites, Derreck Smalls, showing off his rather ridiculous (but gorgeous) double-neck BC Rich bass with the Kings of Cheese, Spinal Tap!   I played "Big Bottom" onstage with one of my bands, it was fantastic to have multiple bassists going at it!  






Edited by cstack3 - July 18 2012 at 23:32
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Points: 6815 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2012 at 21:38
Hmmm....some cheesy Yes keyboards, anyone? 

"Forty-plus years down the road, Yes' members still boast chops that can inspire jealousy in many a musician. Even weak points in Wednesday's show, particularly an instrumental passage in the latter half of the "Fly from Here" suite featuring cheesy keyboard tones and augmented by flashing rainbow lights, were imbued with technically precise musicianship." 


http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/entertainment-general/index.ssf/2012/07/yes_assaults_sands_event_cente.html
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Points: 1719 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2012 at 22:13
I consider cheese to be the musical equivalent of emoting.
 
Asia was mentioned earlier, which is who I immediately thought of. The common component is Geoff Downes, and nothing demonstrated fermented curd more than the John Payne-era days.
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