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Joined: September 03 2006
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Points: 9869
Posted: July 15 2015 at 22:21
san0648 wrote:
I guess I'll go ahead and say it...
The beloved prog bands of the early days only did exactly what a lot of people are accusing bands of doing today: adding already existing elements to a genre of music (rock).
We all love prog back then for the classical, folk, jazz/fusion, and rock elements. But fact is, it was just a melting pot of all those styles. I, personally, don't think anyone has really done anything new since the delta blues era. Since then, its all been cool, hip, angry, confused, nostalgic, re-worked versions of those songs.
Nothing is new under the sun, even the beloved prog of the 70's. Just enjoy music you listen to and don't hark too hard on no new bands creating something brand spanking new never before heard of. Chances are, you aren't doing it either. ;-)
And with that, I await the barrage of negative comments.
The difference is that 70s prog represented the first attempt to marry some of the complexity of classical and jazz with rock. It can only be done for the first time once. That's fine and I don't hold that against modern bands; the only thing they can do is dress up the same prog in somewhat different ways. But let's not get too reductive.
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
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Points: 2449
Posted: July 16 2015 at 04:35
rogerthat wrote:
san0648 wrote:
I guess I'll go ahead and say it...
The beloved prog bands of the early days only did exactly what a lot of people are accusing bands of doing today: adding already existing elements to a genre of music (rock).
We all love prog back then for the classical, folk, jazz/fusion, and rock elements. But fact is, it was just a melting pot of all those styles. I, personally, don't think anyone has really done anything new since the delta blues era. Since then, its all been cool, hip, angry, confused, nostalgic, re-worked versions of those songs.
Nothing is new under the sun, even the beloved prog of the 70's. Just enjoy music you listen to and don't hark too hard on no new bands creating something brand spanking new never before heard of. Chances are, you aren't doing it either. ;-)
And with that, I await the barrage of negative comments.
The difference is that 70s prog represented the first attempt to marry some of the complexity of classical and jazz with rock. It can only be done for the first time once. That's fine and I don't hold that against modern bands; the only thing they can do is dress up the same prog in somewhat different ways. But let's not get too reductive.
That's not a reason to not get excited over a song. The only thing that can possibly get me interested is the composition and sound. I don't prepare to listen to an old song and think I hope this song breaks boundaries then refuse to listen to new PROG because this boundary has been broken. What boundary? If the composition and sound is strong I'll enjoy it
Edited by dr prog - July 16 2015 at 04:41
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
Joined: September 30 2006
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Points: 64700
Posted: July 17 2015 at 16:15
rogerthat wrote:
David, that's a great review and I have similar thoughts on AMOLOR. Soul is a good word to explore here. There's not much fire in the belly nowadays in prog and seemingly that is the case in most rock music as such too (perhaps grunge was the last such 'movement' in rock). There's a lot of prog coming out nowadays that is very technically accomplished and quite well produced too in spite of the constraints they operate under. But there is no pain, no anguish in this music; it's mostly a continuation of the escapist brand of corporate rock that has been around for a couple of decades or more. I don't begrudge somebody else's right to like it and to be honest I do like it up to a point myself but I am unlikely to fall madly in love with such albums and want to listen to them over and over on a loop. I can of course only speak of English language prog because there's no way to relate to the lyrics of other European or South American prog. I had asked, somewhat politely and not in as many words, in my review of Grandine Il Vento as to what is the significance of this album, what does it have to say. So, yes, even the older bands who were around in the 70s are trying to fit prog/rock into this circle of 'positivity'. Maybe the fault lies with us that we are unable to rewire our emotions to be able to experience revelations while listening to this surfeit of positive music.
I hear you, and yeah maybe the fault does lie with us. But I also think you're right; soul is becoming a more rare commodity. You don't even have to go that far back-- look at Stevie Ray Vaughan, or Amy Winehouse.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
Joined: August 14 2013
Location: West Virginia
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Points: 394
Posted: July 17 2015 at 18:07
Jack o' the Clock are out of this world amazing. So are Necromonkey, Alec K Redfearn and the Eyesores, Secret Chiefs 3, echolyn, Ut Gret, Frogg Cafe, Galactic Cowboy Orchestra, Gosta Berlings Saga, Keneally, etc etc. Go back a little further and you have Mr. Bungle and Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Zorn ...
Basically, what Micky, Raff, and others have said. That. If your definition of 'lost its way' is 'it no longer sounds like my favorite bands of 40 years ago', then no - it hasn't.
But there's nothing wrong with being 'retro' at all! It generally just doesn't move me. The whole reason I became interested in prog in the first place is because I like to be challenged. That hasn't changed.
Edited by progrockdeepcuts - July 17 2015 at 18:13
Listen to older shows here: mixcloud.com/progrockdeepcuts/
Joined: September 03 2006
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Posted: July 17 2015 at 23:13
Atavachron wrote:
I hear you, and yeah maybe the fault does lie with us. But I also think you're right; soul is becoming a more rare commodity. You don't even have to go that far back-- look at Stevie Ray Vaughan, or Amy Winehouse.
Speaking of Amy Winehouse, I think the music industry seems to dislike a certain kind of eccentric, daring personality these days. Like Cobain or Layne Staley. Or Fish, if we're speaking of prog rock. It's not possible that there are no such personalities around in music but more likely they are not getting opportunities any more. But it is these kind of musicians who often have something different to say just because they don't give a sh*t about public perception.
Yes "The Union Tour" in 1991 features all the past and present Yes men excluding the original guitarist Peter Banks. It also excludes Downes and Horn, luckily so because Drama (heh, quite appropriate name for the then album isnīt it) is not a Yes album really. Still, the tour may have lots of real drama for the members.
Quantity in music may sometimes define quality but for Rick Wakeman this Yes reformation was The Onion Tour. I completely understand him.
Joined: September 20 2010
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Posted: July 23 2015 at 01:49
Son.of.Tiresias wrote:
Yes "The Union Tour" in 1991 features all the past and present Yes men excluding the original guitarist Peter Banks. It also excludes Downes and Horn, luckily so because Drama (heh, quite appropriate name for the then album isnīt it) is not a Yes album really. Still, the tour may have lots of real drama for the members.
Quantity in music may sometimes define quality but for Rick Wakeman this Yes reformation was The Onion Tour. I completely understand him.
I saw Yes at The Union Tour, but sadly not in my hometown. Though the tickets were already printed, not enough of tickets sold (the audience in 1991 here were keep strongly in their anti-prog hysteria) and Belgrade's gig was canceled, that I saw them in Bruxelles. They were amazing.
Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: July 23 2015 at 11:29
Son.of.Tiresias wrote:
Yes "The Union Tour" in 1991 features all the past and present Yes men excluding the original guitarist Peter Banks. It also excludes Downes and Horn, luckily so because Drama (heh, quite appropriate name for the then album isnīt it) is not a Yes album really. Still, the tour may have lots of real drama for the members.
Quantity in music may sometimes define quality but for Rick Wakeman this Yes reformation was The Onion Tour. I completely understand him.
Well, for me Drama is a magnificent album, maybe because I can't resist Jon Anderson's voice, honestly like Trevor's voice better
Songs like Machine Mesiah, Run Through the Light and Tempus Fugit are clasics
I like this album more than the anodyne Going for the One and even more than the terrible Tormato.
About Union, I agree, I was casually in Miami when they played, it was great to see Yes for the first time, but the show was a mess, I bought the album at the entrance and only played it twice since then.
Joined: August 18 2013
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Posted: July 23 2015 at 11:34
Prog may be considered having "lost its way" in that the progressive countercultural vision that shines through most prominently in classic-era Yes seems to have been lost to many prog artists. Sure, there still is a lot of excellent prog now, but I feel that there is something missing. In the early 70s, prog was (to some part at least) an expression of a vision of a freer, spiritually richer, more equitable society of the future, and that vision has been lost in the mid-70s.
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"What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes."
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Posted: July 23 2015 at 14:21
Coming in late to this discussion. Sorry if this has already been discussed. Fascinating topic, BTW.
IMHO, there are 3 reasons why 'modern' prog is not as good as the golden era and continues in this direction.
1. Production
All prog from the neo movement on sounds exactly the same. Reverbed to hell, mastered loud and lacking any sort of warmness. The classic stuff had such great studio sound with fat drums, guitars and vocals up front and minimal overdubbing. This is possible today, but the prog artists all have seemed to acquiesce to this cold, loud, fake live, wet sound.
2. Terrible singers
-There have been no stand out singers, such as Jon Anderson, to rise up in modern prog. They are all imitators, metal singers, or just plain bad singers who can't hold a tune.
3. Lack of time and patience for listening
-With the digital age, we've somehow lost the patience for listening to long albums and songs with interest. With everything available at our fingertips, we don't have to agonize about what album to buy and then give it sufficient time to grow on us. Not to mention the absolute saturation of the market.
I need to give honorable mention to a possible 4th reason why prog over the last 20 years has been sub par. That is the amount of cheese in arrangements, melody and lyrics. Oh man, where to start.
Joined: May 22 2007
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Posted: July 23 2015 at 15:51
Svetonio wrote:
Son.of.Tiresias wrote:
Yes "The Union Tour" in 1991 features all the past and present Yes men excluding the original guitarist Peter Banks. It also excludes Downes and Horn, luckily so because Drama (heh, quite appropriate name for the then album isnīt it) is not a Yes album really. Still, the tour may have lots of real drama for the members.
Quantity in music may sometimes define quality but for Rick Wakeman this Yes reformation was The Onion Tour. I completely understand him.
I saw Yes at The Union Tour, but sadly not in my hometown. Though the tickets were already printed, not enough of tickets sold (the audience in 1991 here were keep strongly in their anti-prog hysteria) and Belgrade's gig was canceled, that I saw them in Bruxelles. They were amazing.
The Union tour was the first time that I saw Yes live, and I've been a fan ever since. I've probably seen them 7 to 10 times since then and may go and see them again next month with Toto. Though, it will be sad to see them without Chris Squire.
Yes "The Union Tour" in 1991 features all the past and present Yes men excluding the original guitarist Peter Banks. It also excludes Downes and Horn, luckily so because Drama (heh, quite appropriate name for the then album isnīt it) is not a Yes album really. Still, the tour may have lots of real drama for the members.
Quantity in music may sometimes define quality but for Rick Wakeman this Yes reformation was The Onion Tour. I completely understand him.
Well, for me Drama is a magnificent album, maybe because I can't resist Jon Anderson's voice, honestly like Trevor's voice better
Songs like Machine Mesiah, Run Through the Light and Tempus Fugit are clasics
I like this album more than the anodyne Going for the One and even more than the terrible Tormato.
About Union, I agree, I was casually in Miami when they played, it was great to see Yes for the first time, but the show was a mess, I bought the album at the entrance and only played it twice since then.
Ha-ha ! You just proved that you are the maddest GENESIS fan that possibly can exist
Yes is a progressive band, pseudo wanna-be Anderson/Yes was a regressive band. Despite Squireīs and Howeīs great contribution. The songs you again madly rave about are good but not even close to Anderson/Squire classics. You obviously listen to MP3 (grin). I sold my Drama ages ago.
Their are lame, like all neo (pseudo) prog is. True Prog kicks ass. Like "Tormato" in 1978.
You are terrible. How dare you w**k such evergreens as "Turn of the Century" and "Awaken". "Circus of Heaven" and "Donīt Kill the Whale", "In the Silent Wings of Freedom" and "Madrigal" from fantastic "Tormato" which is a terrific prog album, it even has punky and raw sound and kicks ass like the best classic Yes. In punkīs year (what a stupid thought) 1977 Yes came back with vengeance and showed to the world that their still were the Masters of the Universe, KANSAS and Rush were close behind but never really reached the power and glory that this classic monster band. In 1978 after ten yearsīcareer Yes was still the leading force in Prog, other classic bands like ELP and GENESIS in particular gradually sinking into tame pop. "... And Then There Were Three..." is a brilliant pop-prog album and GENESISī last great record, but thatīs another story...
Jon Andersonīs voice is unique and your somewhat weird "new-age" hero Mr. Horn is a pale echo to him. Anderson is Hornīs hero, Horn would never even imagine to match Andersonīs abilities. No-one can. You even havenīt read his interviews about. People like you think that everything is comparable like cars and can be turned into pissing contest whenever you want. If you hate Anderson`s voice thatīs your problem only (grin). How old are you btw.
Go and take Meat Loafīs and Trevor Hornīs and Tommy Shawīs hand, sing together "I Know What I Like" and you may very well become the most incredible Fab Four of All Time... Anyway, we all will have some fun
Joined: July 07 2015
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Posted: July 23 2015 at 16:40
Son.of.Tiresias wrote:
How dare you w**k such evergreens as "Turn of the Century" and "Awaken". "Circus of Heaven" and "Donīt Kill the Whale", "In the Silent Wings of Freedom" and "Madrigal" from fantastic "Tormato" which is a terrific prog album, it even has punky and raw sound and kicks ass like the best classic Yes.
To me "Tormato" does not sound raw. It sounds thin. With a more powerful sound, Tormato would have certainly been reckoned one of the band's classic albums. The songs have the potential. By the way, the best one in my opinion is "Release Release".
How dare you w**k such evergreens as "Turn of the Century" and "Awaken". "Circus of Heaven" and "Donīt Kill the Whale", "In the Silent Wings of Freedom" and "Madrigal" from fantastic "Tormato" which is a terrific prog album, it even has punky and raw sound and kicks ass like the best classic Yes.
To me "Tormato" does not sound raw. It sounds thin. With a more powerful sound, Tormato would have certainly been reckoned one of the band's classic albums. The songs have the potential. By the way, the best one in my opinion is "Release Release".
Thin in your system Very strange comment... Hmm, another MP3 fan obviously.
In reality the sound is very powerful, fat, big (large), heavy even raw at places so very powerful both low & high registers, Squireīs Rickenbacker bass goes very low deeper than ever before, sub-sonic actually and very high too. Jonīs voice as fantastic with nuances as always. Luckily "Tormato" has never sounded "thin" in my systems over the decades.
Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: July 23 2015 at 17:46
Son.of.Tiresias wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Son.of.Tiresias wrote:
Yes "The Union Tour" in 1991 features all the past and present Yes men excluding the original guitarist Peter Banks. It also excludes Downes and Horn, luckily so because Drama (heh, quite appropriate name for the then album isnīt it) is not a Yes album really. Still, the tour may have lots of real drama for the members.
Quantity in music may sometimes define quality but for Rick Wakeman this Yes reformation was The Onion Tour. I completely understand him.
Well, for me Drama is a magnificent album, maybe because I can't resist Jon Anderson's voice, honestly like Trevor's voice better
Songs like Machine Mesiah, Run Through the Light and Tempus Fugit are clasics
I like this album more than the anodyne Going for the One and even more than the terrible Tormato.
About Union, I agree, I was casually in Miami when they played, it was great to see Yes for the first time, but the show was a mess, I bought the album at the entrance and only played it twice since then.
Ha-ha ! You just proved that you are the maddest GENESIS fan that possibly can exist
Yes is a progressive band, pseudo wanna-be Anderson/Yes was a regressive band. Despite Squireīs and Howeīs great contribution. The songs you again madly rave about are good but not even close to Anderson/Squire classics. You obviously listen to MP3 (grin). I sold my Drama ages ago.
Their are lame, like all neo (pseudo) prog is. True Prog kicks ass. Like "Tormato" in 1978.
You are terrible. How dare you w**k such evergreens as "Turn of the Century" and "Awaken". "Circus of Heaven" and "Donīt Kill the Whale", "In the Silent Wings of Freedom" and "Madrigal" from fantastic "Tormato" which is a terrific prog album, it even has punky and raw sound and kicks ass like the best classic Yes. In punkīs year (what a stupid thought) 1977 Yes came back with vengeance and showed to the world that their still were the Masters of the Universe, KANSAS and Rush were close behind but never really reached the power and glory that this classic monster band. In 1978 after ten yearsīcareer Yes was still the leading force in Prog, other classic bands like ELP and GENESIS in particular gradually sinking into tame pop. "... And Then There Were Three..." is a brilliant pop-prog album and GENESISī last great record, but thatīs another story...
Jon Andersonīs voice is unique and your somewhat weird "new-age" hero Mr. Horn is a pale echo to him. Anderson is Hornīs hero, Horn would never even imagine to match Andersonīs abilities. No-one can. You even havenīt read his interviews about. People like you think that everything is comparable like cars and can be turned into pissing contest whenever you want. If you hate Anderson`s voice thatīs your problem only (grin). How old are you btw.
Go and take Meat Loafīs and Trevor Hornīs and Tommy Shawīs hand, sing together "I Know What I Like" and you may very well become the most incredible Fab Four of All Time... Anyway, we all will have some fun
hahhaha.. dude... for walking into the lion's den while bleeding like a stuck pig..
you earn the coveted McPost of the day! And I'm making a batch of popcorn...
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
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Points: 6253
Posted: July 23 2015 at 18:28
Of course prog has not lost it's way. Have a listen to this track, listen till the end. This band only release one album, Roine Stolt on guitars here. Infact many of The Flower King fans are not even aware that it exists, this band. Have a listen to the whole song and you'll be blown away I think :) prog is alive and well and making me so thrilling happy too wow! .... xxxxx
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Has prog lost its way?
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san0648 wrote:
Very strange comment... Hmm, another MP3 fan obviously.
