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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
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Posted: March 10 2012 at 14:23 |
TODDLER wrote:
Decades ago when I was surrounded by fine musicians , there was a lot of talk about developing a "feel" for a certain style of music. Every musician I traveled with studied with some sort of master. Being great at sight reading, scales, theory yet still asking me if I thought they had the right "feel". It happens when you are young musician with great technique, but haven't reached the level of expressing your own voice. You can be a schooled reader and not know how to express through an instrument ...the true expression of the composition. The composition is complex, but has a lot of feeling. It is not evident to the majority of people in the world. It's America's pathetic reaction to ethnic music. They cringe and let off a nervous stare. They have always been afraid of Arabic music ..which was easier for them to except through a Warner Bros. cartoon or a 3 Stooges episode. Take Gong's "A Sprinkling of Clouds" for an example. The drummer enters in around 4:30. You can count along and tap your foot to 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and repeat. This has a lot of feeling ..as it is like dance with a jazz mentality. Gymnastics in prog are meant to be felt and instead they are summed up to be noodling. What? Musicians work up a huge sweat performing prog and many in the audience are actually discouraged by notes. A common reaction in the U.S. when playing fast note passages at the time was only excepted in Jazz, Country, Bluegrass, Swinging Blues, and Surf music. Prog was such a simple idea when musicians decided to take the influence of Classical, European Folk , American Jazz and work those influences into "Rock music". It's so strange when I talk with musicians on the phone from Europe and they will understand a musical concept as if they sat in the room and wrote it with me. I find it rare meeting someone like that in America. Prog is all about "feel" for the musician , yet sometimes the audience is feeling nothing. Prog is like Gnosis. Gnosis is a feeling one will get and not knowing how to descibe it and feeling shock will run from it or surpress it through logic.
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I think that music is a lot like food - you have a musical diet. I feel like, living in America, I live in a world where I am surrounded by people who live on a steady diet of Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwiches. Not only do they live on it, but they go to restaurants that server a variety of PB&J sandwiches. Then they come to me and say "dude, you HAVE to try the sandwiches they serve at this restaurant! They use freshly made bread, and weird stuff like MANGO jelly!" And I look at them and say "but dude...it's still the same 3 basic ingredients!"
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: March 10 2012 at 14:26 |
dtguitarfan wrote:
TODDLER wrote:
Decades ago when I was surrounded by fine musicians , there was a lot of talk about developing a "feel" for a certain style of music. Every musician I traveled with studied with some sort of master. Being great at sight reading, scales, theory yet still asking me if I thought they had the right "feel". It happens when you are young musician with great technique, but haven't reached the level of expressing your own voice. You can be a schooled reader and not know how to express through an instrument ...the true expression of the composition. The composition is complex, but has a lot of feeling. It is not evident to the majority of people in the world. It's America's pathetic reaction to ethnic music. They cringe and let off a nervous stare. They have always been afraid of Arabic music ..which was easier for them to except through a Warner Bros. cartoon or a 3 Stooges episode. Take Gong's "A Sprinkling of Clouds" for an example. The drummer enters in around 4:30. You can count along and tap your foot to 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and repeat. This has a lot of feeling ..as it is like dance with a jazz mentality. Gymnastics in prog are meant to be felt and instead they are summed up to be noodling. What? Musicians work up a huge sweat performing prog and many in the audience are actually discouraged by notes. A common reaction in the U.S. when playing fast note passages at the time was only excepted in Jazz, Country, Bluegrass, Swinging Blues, and Surf music. Prog was such a simple idea when musicians decided to take the influence of Classical, European Folk , American Jazz and work those influences into "Rock music". It's so strange when I talk with musicians on the phone from Europe and they will understand a musical concept as if they sat in the room and wrote it with me. I find it rare meeting someone like that in America. Prog is all about "feel" for the musician , yet sometimes the audience is feeling nothing. Prog is like Gnosis. Gnosis is a feeling one will get and not knowing how to descibe it and feeling shock will run from it or surpress it through logic.
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I think that music is a lot like food - you have a musical diet. I feel like, living in America, I live in a world where I am surrounded by people who live on a steady diet of Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwiches. Not only do they live on it, but they go to restaurants that server a variety of PB&J sandwiches. Then they come to me and say "dude, you HAVE to try the sandwiches they serve at this restaurant! They use freshly made bread, and weird stuff like MANGO jelly!" And I look at them and say "but dude...it's still the same 3 basic ingredients!"
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
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Posted: March 10 2012 at 14:29 |
dtguitarfan wrote:
TODDLER wrote:
Decades ago when I was surrounded by fine musicians , there was a lot of talk about developing a "feel" for a certain style of music. Every musician I traveled with studied with some sort of master. Being great at sight reading, scales, theory yet still asking me if I thought they had the right "feel". It happens when you are young musician with great technique, but haven't reached the level of expressing your own voice. You can be a schooled reader and not know how to express through an instrument ...the true expression of the composition. The composition is complex, but has a lot of feeling. It is not evident to the majority of people in the world. It's America's pathetic reaction to ethnic music. They cringe and let off a nervous stare. They have always been afraid of Arabic music ..which was easier for them to except through a Warner Bros. cartoon or a 3 Stooges episode. Take Gong's "A Sprinkling of Clouds" for an example. The drummer enters in around 4:30. You can count along and tap your foot to 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and repeat. This has a lot of feeling ..as it is like dance with a jazz mentality. Gymnastics in prog are meant to be felt and instead they are summed up to be noodling. What? Musicians work up a huge sweat performing prog and many in the audience are actually discouraged by notes. A common reaction in the U.S. when playing fast note passages at the time was only excepted in Jazz, Country, Bluegrass, Swinging Blues, and Surf music. Prog was such a simple idea when musicians decided to take the influence of Classical, European Folk , American Jazz and work those influences into "Rock music". It's so strange when I talk with musicians on the phone from Europe and they will understand a musical concept as if they sat in the room and wrote it with me. I find it rare meeting someone like that in America. Prog is all about "feel" for the musician , yet sometimes the audience is feeling nothing. Prog is like Gnosis. Gnosis is a feeling one will get and not knowing how to descibe it and feeling shock will run from it or surpress it through logic.
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I think that music is a lot like food - you have a musical diet. I feel like, living in America, I live in a world where I am surrounded by people who live on a steady diet of Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwiches. Not only do they live on it, but they go to restaurants that server a variety of PB&J sandwiches. Then they come to me and say "dude, you HAVE to try the sandwiches they serve at this restaurant! They use freshly made bread, and weird stuff like MANGO jelly!" And I look at them and say "but dude...it's still the same 3 basic ingredients!"
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...And then I bring them a plate of pasta with a bunch of colorful vegetables and bits of steak and gorgonzola and they look at it and say..."isn't that a bit self-indulgent and show-offish on the part of the chef?"
Edited by dtguitarfan - March 10 2012 at 14:31
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 26133
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Posted: March 10 2012 at 16:19 |
octopus-4 wrote:
Give a look to this...few theory for beginners and a lot of interesting stuff.
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I have that book. I started it and didn't really like it that much. I should probably pick it up and read further.
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2449
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Posted: March 10 2012 at 16:53 |
Modern band have got it all wong. They think prog is about inventing and breaking boundaries. Real prog bands naturally broke them. Their 4 main influences were rock, folk, jazz, classical
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friso
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 24 2007
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 2505
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Posted: March 10 2012 at 17:03 |
Rock is graffiti, prog rock is The Night Watch
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progprogprog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 279
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Posted: March 10 2012 at 17:30 |
^
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Always thinking in extremes.That's my way to beat boredom.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 10 2012 at 17:41 |
No it isn't
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What?
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Angelo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 13240
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Posted: March 10 2012 at 18:03 |
That's prog snobbism at it's best, but more likely complete nonsense.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: March 10 2012 at 21:04 |
dr prog wrote:
Modern band have got it all wong. They think prog is about inventing and breaking boundaries. Real prog bands naturally broke them. Their 4 main influences were rock, folk, jazz, classical |
Well unless you have been actually listening to enough modern prog, how could you possibly know what the heck you talking about? Also, if you like modern prog that much why the hell do you spend any time listening to it?
Edited by Slartibartfast - March 10 2012 at 21:05
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: March 10 2012 at 23:22 |
friso wrote:
Rock is graffiti, prog rock is The Night Watch |
Painting in the dark often gives rise to results that resemble graffiti
Edited by ExittheLemming - March 10 2012 at 23:24
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: March 10 2012 at 23:43 |
TODDLER wrote:
Decades ago when I was surrounded by fine musicians , there was a lot of talk about developing a "feel" for a certain style of music. Every musician I traveled with studied with some sort of master. Being great at sight reading, scales, theory yet still asking me if I thought they had the right "feel". It happens when you are young musician with great technique, but haven't reached the level of expressing your own voice. You can be a schooled reader and not know how to express through an instrument ...the true expression of the composition. The composition is complex, but has a lot of feeling. It is not evident to the majority of people in the world. It's America's pathetic reaction to ethnic music. They cringe and let off a nervous stare. They have always been afraid of Arabic music ..which was easier for them to except through a Warner Bros. cartoon or a 3 Stooges episode. Take Gong's "A Sprinkling of Clouds" for an example. The drummer enters in around 4:30. You can count along and tap your foot to 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and repeat. This has a lot of feeling ..as it is like dance with a jazz mentality. Gymnastics in prog are meant to be felt and instead they are summed up to be noodling. What? Musicians work up a huge sweat performing prog and many in the audience are actually discouraged by notes. A common reaction in the U.S. when playing fast note passages at the time was only excepted in Jazz, Country, Bluegrass, Swinging Blues, and Surf music. Prog was such a simple idea when musicians decided to take the influence of Classical, European Folk , American Jazz and work those influences into "Rock music". It's so strange when I talk with musicians on the phone from Europe and they will understand a musical concept as if they sat in the room and wrote it with me. I find it rare meeting someone like that in America. Prog is all about "feel" for the musician , yet sometimes the audience is feeling nothing. Prog is like Gnosis. Gnosis is a feeling one will get and not knowing how to descibe it and feeling shock will run from it or surpress it through logic.
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I agree with this description of prog but I don't know if the stereotype about prog was based on music like Gong. I am sure fans of Ozric Tentacles are well aware of how much they are influenced by Gong. If the stereotype was spawned by the likes of ELP, I cannot say it is entirely far fetched. I have noticed on this board, some people have described prog as a vehicle for virtuosity and in that sense, you can relate to why ELP for some sections of the audience summed up everything that was wrong about prog. But I have never seen prog that way and I don't believe, from reading John Wetton's thoughts on prog, that he saw it that way. Nor did Fripp. A certain compositional function and, as you described it, using all those complex elements to evoke a desired feel, is paramount in prog. It cannot simply be about putting together 20 minute epics with long solo sections for the musicians to show off. If all prog was like that, I would positively HATE the genre too.
Edited by rogerthat - March 11 2012 at 00:02
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 11 2012 at 06:33 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
friso wrote:
Rock is graffiti, prog rock is The Night Watch |
Painting in the dark often gives rise to results that resemble graffiti
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Pollock's.
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What?
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: March 11 2012 at 07:56 |
^Drip
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: March 11 2012 at 08:14 |
Evening Constable.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: March 11 2012 at 08:19 |
rogerthat wrote:
It cannot simply be about putting together 20 minute epics with long solo sections for the musicians to show off. If all prog was like that, I would positively HATE the genre too.
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What if it were done in the style of country music? Oh wait, that's the Grateful Dead.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: March 11 2012 at 08:48 |
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akaBona
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 15 2010
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 2082
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Posted: March 11 2012 at 11:32 |
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: March 11 2012 at 11:46 |
I have no interest in ever listening to them.
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javier0889
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 21 2010
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 170
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Posted: March 11 2012 at 11:57 |
found this on tumblr:
I doubt any of you could possibly come with a better definition.
Edited by javier0889 - March 11 2012 at 11:59
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http://www.last.fm/user/javier0889
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