Russia/Ukraine tensions - Any concern?

If anyone thinks I'm going to defend the US and US foreign policy, you don't know me well. My avatar is from an album called "America Eats its Young". Its a scathing satire on US greed, violence, materialism, colonialism and racism from an African American perspective.

I am only here to represent my friends from Eastern Europe, particularly those that had to deal with soviets on a day to day basis.

Anyway, I thought Cindy was the big MAGA US nationalist. I hate that stuff.
I am anti-racist, anti-fascist and anti-imperialist. Hopefully hollywood donald is headed to jail

Edited by Easy Money - December 18 2021 at 16:23

Easy Money wrote: If anyone thinks I'm going to defend the US and US foreign policy, you don't know me well. My avatar is from an album called "America Eats its Young". Its a scathing satire on US greed, violence, materialism, colonialism and racism from an African American perspective. I am only here to defend my friends from Eastern Europe Anyway, I thought Cindy was the big MAGA US nationalist. I hate that stuff.

Easy Money wrote: Colorful possibly, unfortunately a lot of the things he says are incorrect, and if either of you knew personally the people I know who grew up under soviet domination, you would know how disrespectful some of these things can sound. I do not care for US foreign policy or US propaganda, for that reason I visited soviet East Europe in the early 80s to see how much of it was true for myself. Yes, the US propaganda machine exaggerated things, but nothing I saw was in conflict with the stories I heard from others from Eastern Europe throughout the rest of my life.

Easy Money wrote: Colorful possibly, unfortunately a lot of the things he says are incorrect, and if either of you knew personally the people I know who grew up under soviet domination, you would know how disrespectful some of these things can sound. I do not care for US foreign policy or US propaganda, for that reason I visited soviet East Europe in the early 80s to see how much of it was true for myself. Yes, the US propaganda machine exaggerated things, but nothing I saw was in conflict with the stories I heard from others from Eastern Europe throughout the rest of my life.

 

Edited by Woon Deadn - December 19 2021 at 04:26

Thanks by the way for the link to Soviet Movies Explained. Quite a treasure trove that is!

If anyone replying to this thread believes that the USSR / modern day Russia is somehow a bogeyman state and that their own country represents the pinnacle of social paradise, freedom and equality, with the poorest members, old and disadvantaged adequately cared for by the philanthropy of the rich.........

Edited by Davesax1965 - December 21 2021 at 04:22

Davesax1965 wrote: If anyone replying to this thread believes that the USSR / modern day Russia is somehow a bogeyman state and that their own country represents the pinnacle of social paradise, freedom and equality, with the poorest members, old and disadvantaged adequately cared for by the philanthropy of the rich......... ...... they are idiots.  Everywhere is pretty much the same, only the lies are different.

I'm talking about the way society is structured. You're showing you didn't understand the nature of the post. 

It's not about individual social circumstances. And no, I wouldn't be "happy living in" any of those countries, that's a completely unconnected comparison. 

This is how it works. 

In any society, there are rich people, there are poor people. And there is a system. Whether it's a political system, a caste system or a system or religion or religions, it doesn't particularly matter. The system is there as a shiny front to "what it means to be British / Indian / Dutch........ Russian.... American".  This, if you like, is a shiny stage set, less shiny in other countries, but, there it is. Want to know what it is to be English ? There you go. A whole catalogue of examples in the form of historical events, supposed values, drilled into you from your schooldays by State and media. 

1066. 1485. Magna Carta. WW2. 

The truth of the matter is somewhat different. When I look at it, my great grandparents had 11 kids, so did their parents before them. They lived in abject industrial poverty in the richest nation on Earth with an "empire on which the sun never set". Lies. 

Lies which feed enmity and hatred. The French are our enemies. Have been since the 14th century. The English way of life is better than the Dutch or German way of life. They are somehow lesser people. 

When in fact, nationalities are only really bound by imaginary borders. People are much the same everywhere. You will find kindness if you look for it, you will find terrible cruelty if you look for it as well, and you will find that in all countries everywhere at every historic event. 

But there's the Big Lie, and this is what happens behind the shiny stage set. The Big Lie is perpetrated by those who are actually in charge, those who do very nicely thank you, and it's not always governments, but advisers and financiers and those who will do well. 

Those who will send entire generations off to the trenches of WW1 to die like sheep to protect their own interests. Those who will keep pensioners freezing when they're no longer "economically useful". Those who will incite national hatred against, say, the Chinese, as there's an economic twist to it from which they'll profit. 

And that is what a nation really is. 

There's something called Social Contract Theory. You behave as an individual of the State because the State confers you certain benefits - material possessions, peace, even the ability to flick a light switch and know that the power will come on. So. You have a duty to the State as the State provides you with these things. 

They give you enough to keep you happy and to keep the mob from their doors. 

If the entire wealth of a nation was equally shared out, or even shared out on a basis of worthiness, we would all be much better off. But it doesn't happen like that, and it never will. 

"For the masters make the rules / for the wise men / and the fools". 

So yes, Silly Puppy, on the basis of the above, everywhere is pretty much the same insofar as every nation on Earth throughout recorded history works on the same basis and always will. The lot you receive varies, that's all. 

To relate this to the OP, this isn't "Russia preparing to invade Ukraine", it's much more complicated than that, and, in a way, much simpler. This is "those who have power in Russia attempting to bolster their popularity and stay in power by gambling with a lot of lives and homes of.... those who, to them, do not really matter."

War is always economic in nature. Unless you suck up the lie that a country is "defending freedom". 

Society is all actually complete lies, ladies and gentlemen. From the beginning to the end. You should know this by now. 

To understand Russia.

Russia is gigantic. Since early days, when the capital of Russia was actually in Kiev (now Kyiv, in Ukraine), Russia was a collection of uncontrollable fiefdoms. Local leaders could do what they wanted, the capital was a long way away and everything could be obscured, obfuscated or just ignored. Same attitude existed for centuries. 

There have been certain historical figures such as Yuri Dolgorukiy ("George the long handed") who could control various outposts of the empire. One of the most effective Tsars was Ivan IV - "Ivan the terrible". 

As an example, when it was suspected that the city of Novgorod was going to defect to Poland / Lithuania, Ivan had the city's inhabitants massacred. I seem to recall large numbers were tied to rafts and pushed into the frozen river. 

Monster, you may think, but Ivan was regarded as a strong leader who could control large swathes of Russia. 

The same thing happens with Stalin. Stalin, 400 years later, is a fairly dull "grey eminence" or nonentity of a man. He doesn't really have a personality other than that which he's learnt from Russian history, so he impersonates - amongst other people - Ivan IV. "This is how a Tsar behaves". You can count in his adoption of policies such as banishing prisoners to far flung parts of Russia and also having a large secretive police force.... that's how it's done, that's how it's always been done. The Tsars before him had similar systems in place.

Then along comes Putin and........... it's exactly the same, it will always be the same, Russia will never fundamentally change, not with even another revolution, which will never happen. 

That's what Russia is. 

Davesax1965 wrote: So yes, Silly Puppy, on the basis of the above, everywhere is pretty much the same insofar as every nation on Earth throughout recorded history works on the same basis and always will. The lot you receive varies, that's all.