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Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Online
Points: 41358
Posted: February 03 2015 at 00:26
Arzachel released their self-titled debut in 1969, they are featured on PA (there's plenty of info) so I'll just post the album opener that blew my mind .
Another band I mentioned and it's featured here on PA is T2. Their album It'll All Work out in Boomland is a solid piece of work. Check out the epic 20 minutes song Morning!
Joined: April 11 2014
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Points: 20504
Posted: February 03 2015 at 08:57
Yes, Arzachel is a greatly over looked psych rock band. And T2 is a trip. Again, it's great to see vids of this older stuff. I honesty never really bother to check Youtube as I thought they would be too hard to find, like many other older fringe music groups, but I will now. Thanks again for the post.
Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Online
Points: 41358
Posted: February 03 2015 at 09:03
SteveG wrote:
Yes, Arzachel is a greatly over looked psych rock band. And T2 is a trip. Again, it's great to see vids of this older stuff. I honesty never really bother to check Youtube as I thought they would be too hard to find, like many other older fringe music groups, but I will now. Thanks again for the post.
there's a ton of good music on youtube, you'd be surprised. I'll be back with a couple of more videos.
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
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Points: 20504
Posted: February 03 2015 at 10:11
Why early American Prog sounds like this:
Instead of early British Prog like this:
No one can define a definitive and comprehensive reason for why British Prog evolved from Psych Rock into early symphonic Prog groups like KingCrimson while early American Prog evoved from Psych into artists like CaptainBeefheart and the jazz musing/satirical commentary of FrankZappa.
But I feel it's safe to say that although psychedelic drugs on the both sides of the Atlantic Ocean were the catalyst, the social and cultural situations of the U.S. and the U.K. were extremely different. The U.K. was in a state of cultural change while the U.S. was clearly in a state of anger, disillusionment, and rebellion due to the Vietnam War and racial tensions, along with younger versus older citizen's conflicting views on the status quo.
In the U.S., the 1966 rock albums that kicked off Psychedelic rock were initially Freak out! by the MothersofInvention (until people became awhere of Zappa's anti hippie and drug stance) and the first album produced by The Thirteen Floor Elevators The Psychedelic Sounds of the Thirteen Floor Elevators.
TheElevators were only regionally successful, but their influence on the nascent San Francisco 'acid rock' scene cannot be understated as most of the major bands, such as the JeffersonAirplane, were originally part of the West Coast American Folk revival who quickly turned electric after The Elevators showed up to tour the Bay Area in 1966.
Where as the British took influences from TheBeatles, TheZombies, TheMoodyBlues, Family, PinkFloyd and TheNice and were focused on musical progression, many U.S. bands were attracted to the rebellious sounds of Anti Rock noise, deconstruction of melody and the arty Avant Garde. All these U.S. interests were naturally comingled with counter culture lyrics that questioned conventionality and the American social problems of the day.
One of the must outré albums of this era was 1967's RedCrayola's musically reductive and Anti Rock noise "free form freak out' album The Parable of Arable Land. Using minimal studio effects but utilizing a whole lot of people to create noise collages that was placed between minimalistic songs about social issues such as the song War Sucks, while the vocal's were delivered in a neurotic deadpan style that would have made DavidByrne envious.
Red Crayola: The Parable of Arable Land. As far out as you could get in 1967.
Following this noisy Pyschedelic groundbreaker was an even more bizzare album that surfaced in 1968 from the newly successful group VanillaFudge who had a big hit with a slow and heavy hard rock reworking of TheSupremes mega hit You Keep Me Hanging On.
Taking the advice of both their manager/producer and a top record executive, VanillaFudge made one the most bizarre outré albums of the late 1960s. Combining studio improvisation, sound collages, excepts of classical music, and short reworkings of Beatles songs into free form whole, all of this was interspersed with snippets of historical sound excerpts such as speeches by JFK and Churchill. The result of all this effort was the album The Beat Goes On.
Vanilla Fudge: The Beat Goes On. As far out as you could get in 1968.
Trashed by both critics and fans, it remains a black mark on the otherwise stellar work produced by VanillaFudge after the release of this debacle.
The bottom line to all this is that the zeitgeist of the sixties effected American rock music in different and, in some cases, bizarre ways. However, I think it gives a clue as to why American Prog, what little of it was produced, was radically different from what our cousins were producing across the pond.
Joined: February 01 2011
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Posted: February 03 2015 at 11:07
^ Excellent post, Steve. Very thought-provoking.
And I think the turn American music took in the late-60s, heavily laden with protest and eventually cynicism, was also due to direct musical influence; whereas Brit bands took to their influences from classical references and British folk, and evolved into what we now deem as "prog", American bands leaned on American sounds: country, bluegrass and blues.
The Byrds, the Flying Burrito Brothers, CCR and The Band reveled in Americana, buoyed by the genius of Dylan to expand on the music of their ancestors; while Brit bands like Tull, originally blues-based, opted more and more for their British heritage, eventually eschewing blues altogether, and Fairport Convention shifting their allegiance from Dylan to British folk starting on the Liege and Lief album.
The Allman Brothers, by definition "Progressive Blues", started a whole genre of Southern Rock based on their influences that had none of the classical influences of Britain, but everything to do with country music and blues. It's all a matter of perspective and place, really. Crosby, Stills & Nash and their sometime confederate Neil Young also adopted American reference material.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Joined: April 11 2014
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Posted: February 03 2015 at 14:16
^Thanks Greg, especially after I murdered the spelling of David Byrne's last name. Douh!
I definitely agree with you that the U.S. was more influenced by blues, country, folk, jazz, you name it, in order to produce our styles of both Psych and Prog. Hell, I can't even think of an early U.S. group that used a mellotron! It seemed to be only Vox, Hammond and Farfisa organs. Definitely not conducive to imitating the classics!
Joined: November 09 2014
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Posted: February 03 2015 at 17:18
Look what I found! A copy of this weird, music ending experiment popped up at my favourite local LP&CD shop, so I bought it. One of the guys working there told me that he's got his own copy from '97, but never got the chance to go all four. One day I'll collect a few old CD boomboxes and try it out.
Joined: July 27 2006
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Posted: February 04 2015 at 03:00
Nice post Steve, quite informative. i have to admit Captain Beefheart is not up my alley and also that I've never heard of Red Crayola, but I live and learn.
I'll just say something about a couple of bands I mentioned earlier. Homer was a short-lived Texan band that only released a couple of singles and one album - Grown in USA; still, there are some British invasion influences to their music, they even threw a bit of mellotron here and there.
Armaggedon was a German band that released also just one album, self-titled, in 1970. The band played a couple of covers (Jeff Beck and Spooky Tooth), but their own compositions are great. I think they were suggested to be added on PA at some point but were rejected as they were not progressive enough. but still, awesome blues-rock/hard rock.
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Posted: February 04 2015 at 09:44
^Thanks for the background info on the bands of these two excellent posts, Cristi. I really enjoy learning about who put the music together and sometimes the artist's stories are as fascinating as the music!
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Joined: April 11 2014
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Posted: February 04 2015 at 09:46
Lear'sFool wrote:
Look what I found! A copy of this weird, music ending experiment popped up at my favourite local LP&CD shop, so I bought it. One of the guys working there told me that he's got his own copy from '97, but never got the chance to go all four. One day I'll collect a few old CD boomboxes and try it out.
For a diehard Lips fan, I have never even heard the music from this 4 disc space trip! Please let me know what you think of it.
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Posted: February 05 2015 at 08:33
Cristi wrote:
Nice post Steve, quite informative. i have to admit Captain Beefheart is not up my alley and also that I've never heard of Red Crayola, but I live and learn.
I'll just say something about a couple of bands I mentioned earlier. Homer was a short-lived Texan band that only released a couple of singles and one album - Grown in USA; still, there are some British invasion influences to their music, they even threw a bit of mellotron here and there.
Armaggedon was a German band that released also just one album, self-titled, in 1970. The band played a couple of covers (Jeff Beck and Spooky Tooth), but their own compositions are great. I think they were suggested to be added on PA at some point but were rejected as they were not progressive enough. but still, awesome blues-rock/hard rock.
If it's the same Armageddon I have that on cd and they aren't German per se but British guys; two from Renaissance (Relf and Cennamo) and Pugh from Steamhammer and Caldwell from Capt Beyond. It was put on a German label I think for whatever reason.
Ahh,,,,different band ...same name., that happens now and then.
Edited by dr wu23 - February 05 2015 at 08:35
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Online
Points: 41358
Posted: February 05 2015 at 08:38
dr wu23 wrote:
Cristi wrote:
Armaggedon was a German band that released also just one album, self-titled, in 1970. The band played a couple of covers (Jeff Beck and Spooky Tooth), but their own compositions are great. I think they were suggested to be added on PA at some point but were rejected as they were not progressive enough. but still, awesome blues-rock/hard rock.
If it's the same Armageddon I have that on cd and they aren't German per se but British guys; two from Renaissance (Relf and Cennamo) and Pugh from Steamhammer and Caldwell from Capt Beyond. It was put on a German label I think for whatever reason.
Ahh,,,,different band ...same name., that happens now and then.
Joined: March 05 2006
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Points: 2086
Posted: February 05 2015 at 09:09
SteveG wrote:
Why early American Prog sounds like this:
Instead of early British Prog like this:
No one can define a definitive and comprehensive reason for why British Prog evolved from Psych Rock into early symphonic Prog groups like King Crimson while early American Prog evoved from Psych into artists like Captain Beefheart and the jazz musing/satirical commentary of Frank Zappa.
But I feel it's safe to say that although psychedelic drugs on the both sides of the Atlantic Ocean were the catalyst, the social and cultural situations of the U.S. and the U.K. were extremely different. The U.K. was in a state of cultural change while the U.S. was clearly in a state of anger, disillusionment, and rebellion due to the Vietnam War and racial tensions, along with younger versus older citizens conflicting views on the status quo.
In the U.S., the 1966 rock albums that kicked off Psychedelic rock were initially Freak out! by the Mothers of Invention (until people became away of Zappa's anti hippie and drug stance) and the first album produced by The Thirteen Floor Elevators The Psychedelic Sounds of the Thirteen Floor Elevators.
The Elevators were only regionally successful, but their influence on the nascent San Francisco 'acid rock' scene cannot be understated as most of the major bands, such as the Jefferson Airplane, were originally part of the West Coast American Folk revival who quickly turned electric after The Elevators showed up to tour the Bay Area in 1966.
Where as the British took influences from The Beatles, The Zombies, the Moody Blues, Family, Pink Floyd and The Nice and were focused on musical progression, many U.S. bands were attracted to the rebellious sounds of Anti Rock noise, deconstruction of melody and the arty Avant Garde. All these U.S. interests were naturally comingled with counter culture lyrics that questioned conventionality and the American social problems of the day.
One of the must outré albums of this era was 1967's Red Crayola musically reductive and Anti rock noise "free form freak out' album The Parable of Arable Land. Using minimal studio effects but utilizing a whole lot of people to create noise collages that was placed between minimalistic songs about social issues such as War Sucks, while the vocal's were delivered in a neurotic deadpan style that would have made David Byrne envious.
Red Crayola: The Parable of Arable Land. As far out as you could get in 1967.
Following this noisy Pyschedelic groundbreaker was an even more bizzare album that surfaced in 1968 from the newly successful group Vanilla Fudge who had a big hit with a slow and heavy hard rock reworking of The Supremes mega hit You Keep Me Hanging On.
Taking the advice of both their manager/producer and a top record executive, The Vanilla Fudge made one the most bizarre outré albums of the 1960s. Combining studio improvisation, sound collages, excepts of classical music, short reworkings of Beatles songs. All of was interspersed with snippets of historical sound excerpts such as speeches by JFK and Hitler. The result of all this effort was the album The Beat Goes On.
Vanilla Fudge: The Beat Goes On. As far out as you could get in 1968.
Trashed by both critics and fans, it remains a black mark on the otherwise stellar work produced by Vanilla Fudge after the release of this debacle.
The bottom line to all this is that the zeitgeist of the sixties effected American rock music in different and, in some cases, bizarre ways. However, I think it gives a clue as to why American Prog, what little of it was produced, was radically different from what our cousins were producing across the pond.
Worth posting again, great post SteveG A valid analysis of the beginnings of UK prog and US prog.
Joined: April 11 2014
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Posted: February 05 2015 at 10:35
^Thanks Dan. I really appreciate that as I have some vision problems that act up from time to time and made this post a bit hard for me. I'm still finding some missing words in the text and correcting it! Thanks again.
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Joined: April 11 2014
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Points: 20504
Posted: February 05 2015 at 14:40
The Zombies.
Odessey and Oracle 1967.One of the more confusing albums that I purchased back in the day. Odessey (sic) and Oracle was the second and last album put out by the U. K. group The Zombies. It was mostly recorded in July and August of 1967 in the famed Abbey Road studios.
The Beatles had just completed recording Sgt. Pepper's and left most of the studios open to The Zombies. In studio one, the mellotron that was used for the opening first few flute notes on the song Strawberry Fields Forever and will always signal to the listener the arrival of that Beatles' landmark song, was lest behind.
Self produced and knowing that this would be their final album together (the group was suffering from irreconcilable musical differences and decided to disband after the album's completion), The Zombies utilizedthe same four track Studer tape recorders, used for recording Sgt. Pepper's, for extensive and sometimes elaborate harmony vocal overdubs. The music consisted of minimal guitar playing and relied heavily on the keyboard work of Rod Argent. Piano, organ, celeste, and The Beatles' mellotron were used to supply the delicate textures and mock strings and woodwind accompaniment to go along with Argent's deft electric or acoustic piano or organ leads.
One recorded song was a bone of contention between Argent and lead singer Colin Blunstone. Written by Argent, it was called Time Of The Season. Prodded to sing it in style he was not comfortable with, Blunstone finally sang the song as Argent requested. It was the final track of the album and sounded like nothing else on it.
The album was released in 1968 on both sides of the Atlantic by CBS Records before it sank without a trace. An American A&R representative was intrigued with album's closing track and convinced CBS to release the song as a single in 1969. It was an immediate hit as it fit in with entire counter culture zeitgeist.
When I purchased the album in 1969, I was dumbstruck by the twee and baroque sounding songs that made up most of the album before getting to the closing hit track Time Of The Season. The vocal harmonies reminded me a bit of The Beach Boys at times. Not something I wanted to play after Led Zeppelin.
Strangely, after playing the album occasionally for almost forty years, I have come to appreciate it's "Britishness", for lack of a better term, and a few of it's songs that seem to proceed what was come later by Syd Barrett. They feature a deadpan delivery style in the sane vain as Jug Band Blues with Syd's eccentric lyrical slant. And of course the steely mellotron sounds are indeed music to my ears in more ways than one.
More barouque than psychedelic at times, Odessey and Oracle has truly grown on me. As long as I don't play it after anything by Led Zeppelin.
Joined: July 27 2006
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Posted: February 06 2015 at 03:01
nice presentation, again , makes my posts look like crap I'm gonna give The Zombies a chance, I've never listened to a full length from them, just a few songs. Santana made an awesome cover of the famous She's Not There in 1977.
Joined: April 11 2014
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Posted: February 06 2015 at 08:33
^Cool, but just be careful because as a friend of mine who had no ear for melody once opined "It sounds more like Sgt. Shultze's than Sgt. Pepper's." Again, it's a quaint melodic period album, but I doubt it blow your mind as it's far from as being a psychedelic knockout.
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Absolutely! I keep trying not to fawn over all these great video posts because it shows my age! 
.
SteveG wrote:
A valid analysis of the beginnings of UK prog and US prog.
