Lima Regional Final: Genesis v. Jethro Toe

Genesis are considered the number 1 PROG group here. I wouldn't be showing off songs such as Harold the barrel or musical box to anyone though.

micky wrote: akamaisondufromage wrote: I do feel that this would have been a much closer contest if Genesis hadn't been up against Jethro Toe but, rather the slightly more popular Jethro Tull had been thrown into the mix! I've never had much time for Toe.  hah Tull... lost to a far superior group in the first round DULL.. lost to a far superior group in the Sweet 16. Toe lost in the great 8 to a band whose prog phase was even more dull than theirs was...

I give up!

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: BarryGlibb wrote: Bravo! I am with you all the way. Just having Jethro Toe written in the the topic line says it all with regards to these "boy band" polls. This is disrespectful to a band and their large following here on PA. Some fan"boys" just can't help poo pooing Tull. Bring it on I say!  Ehhm..Toe has an explanation. Jethro Tull's first singles  were released as Jethro Toe That's not disrespectful, it's an historical fact. BarryGlibb wrote: I could have told you at the start that the 4 finalists would be Genesis, KC, PF and Yes. How interesting...not......it was the same 4 a few years ago or was it only months ago?  Seems this type of infantile poll has been done to death over the past few years and I don't know why I bother contributing to them. Next time I am conscientiously objecting and not voting!!!!!! Or voting for Horslips as being the greatest Prog Rock group of all time!!!!! Oh they weren't put up........but in my mind they are/were the best. Maybe because for the vast majority of Prog listeners they are the best bands. I don't like King Crimson except for the debut, but would be absurd from me not to admit they are part of the elite. BarryGlibb wrote: Let's have a poll to work out who was the first Celtic Prog Rock band.  The Strawbs and by far, they started in 1964.

You went to all that trouble to tell me something that I learnt at University in the subject Tull 101?


And The Strawbs are English folk prog, not celtic, like Horslips. Discuss.

Dellinger wrote: Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Dellinger wrote: Oh well, the thing for me, is that none of those albums is really a 5 star masterpiece. All of them have at least one song that I really dislike. The closest album for me would be Selling England by the Pound, and even that one has Battle of Epping Forest. Also Tresspass is really close, but even though that one doesn't have any song that I really dislike, it doesn't have such highlights on it as the next albums would have. Well, it's a matter of opinions. I don't believe an album has to be perfect to be a masterpiece. It may have 1 or 2 songs that I dislike, but I value many other things 1.- Balance 2.- Transcendence 3.- Lyrics 4.- Performance 5.- Factor X For me, every Genesis album except SEBTP have a perfect balance. all are transcendental for Prog, all have brilliant lyrics, the performances are impeccable, but overall...The music creates emotions on me. CTTE is a masterpíece, but doesn't move me in the way Fountain of Salmacis, In the Cage or Can Utilitty move me. Relayer is a super album, technically impeccable (Moraz is a genius), but leaves me cold in the field of emotion. Thick as a Brick has a BRILLIANT intro, the lyrics are amazing, but after 10 minutes they start to repeat themselves. Genesis did well avoiding endless epics, because too much time on your hands lead to repetition, the only real epic (Suppers Ready) is more a collection of different songs united only by a concept and that was brilliant..I love Fountain of Salmacis, and it lasts exactly as much as it should last..The organ intro impresses me because they don't repeat it 10 times in the song. That's where the greatness of Genesius rests, they did what they needed to do, not more, nobiody tries to be a star, they leave their egos behind and play for the band, to the point that people believed Hackett was just a good guitar player until he left the band and did what he wanted to do. Genesis was a team, few bands managed this. Well yeah, I agree about the opinion that an album doesn't have to be perfect to be a masterpiece. Actually, there are many albums that have one, or perhaps two songs I don't really like so much, but that as a whole I consider masterpieces... but those songs need not to bother me too much at least, nor be too long (such as "Have a Cigar" on Wish you were Here, or "Pigs on the Wing" on Animals... perhaps even "On the Run"... and "Money" on Dark Side of the Moon... or the "solo" songs on Fragile). But unfortunatley those songs I don't like on Genesis are either too long and/or too annoying and end up breaking the flow of otherwise wonderful music. For me a perfect Genesis album would have been "The Knife", "Musical Box", "Supper's Ready", "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight", "Firth of Fifth", "Cinema Show", and perhaps "In the Cage" to throw in something from The Lamb. Also, I might include "One for the Vine", but since that one is after Gabriel left and has a bit of a different feel, I might just not include it along the other ones.

Genesis has been my favourite band since I was a kid .. always has been always will be ..

Atkingani wrote: On the other hand for the future we may consider KC, yes, Genesis and PF as hors concours.

BarryGlibb wrote: Bravo! I am with you all the way. Just having Jethro Toe written in the the topic line says it all with regards to these "boy band" polls. This is disrespectful to a band and their large following here on PA. Some fan"boys" just can't help poo pooing Tull. Bring it on I say! I could have told you at the start that the 4 finalists would be Genesis, KC, PF and Yes. How interesting...not......it was the same 4 a few years ago or was it only months ago?  Seems this type of infantile poll has been done to death over the past few years and I don't know why I bother contributing to them. Next time I am conscientiously objecting and not voting!!!!!! Or voting for Horslips as being the greatest Prog Rock group of all time!!!!! Oh they weren't put up........but in my mind they are/were the best. Let's have a poll to work out who was the first Celtic Prog Rock band.

No more disrespectful than dismissing the efforts of all contemporary progressive musicians and calling them amateurish, as some forum members have been doing in the past few days in other threads. These polls are just for fun, as Micky (who happens to be my husband, in case you didn't know) stated very clearly right from the beginning. If you find them infantile (which is probably true of all polls, not just this one), you should probably stay away from them. Last time I looked, it was not mandatory for anyone to vote in polls in order to be a member of PA.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Dellinger wrote: Oh well, the thing for me, is that none of those albums is really a 5 star masterpiece. All of them have at least one song that I really dislike. The closest album for me would be Selling England by the Pound, and even that one has Battle of Epping Forest. Also Tresspass is really close, but even though that one doesn't have any song that I really dislike, it doesn't have such highlights on it as the next albums would have. Well, it's a matter of opinions. I don't believe an album has to be perfect to be a masterpiece. It may have 1 or 2 songs that I dislike, but I value many other things 1.- Balance 2.- Transcendence 3.- Lyrics 4.- Performance 5.- Factor X For me, every Genesis album except SEBTP have a perfect balance. all are transcendental for Prog, all have brilliant lyrics, the performances are impeccable, but overall...The music creates emotions on me. CTTE is a masterpíece, but doesn't move me in the way Fountain of Salmacis, In the Cage or Can Utilitty move me. Relayer is a super album, technically impeccable (Moraz is a genius), but leaves me cold in the field of emotion. Thick as a Brick has a BRILLIANT intro, the lyrics are amazing, but after 10 minutes they start to repeat themselves. Genesis did well avoiding endless epics, because too much time on your hands lead to repetition, the only real epic (Suppers Ready) is more a collection of different songs united only by a concept and that was brilliant..I love Fountain of Salmacis, and it lasts exactly as much as it should last..The organ intro impresses me because they don't repeat it 10 times in the song. That's where the greatness of Genesius rests, they did what they needed to do, not more, nobiody tries to be a star, they leave their egos behind and play for the band, to the point that people believed Hackett was just a good guitar player until he left the band and did what he wanted to do. Genesis was a team, few bands managed this.

Well yeah, I agree about the opinion that an album doesn't have to be perfect to be a masterpiece. Actually, there are many albums that have one, or perhaps two songs I don't really like so much, but that as a whole I consider masterpieces... but those songs need not to bother me too much at least, nor be too long (such as "Have a Cigar" on Wish you were Here, or "Pigs on the Wing" on Animals... perhaps even "On the Run"... and "Money" on Dark Side of the Moon... or the "solo" songs on Fragile). But unfortunatley those songs I don't like on Genesis are either too long and/or too annoying and end up breaking the flow of otherwise wonderful music. For me a perfect Genesis album would have been "The Knife", "Musical Box", "Supper's Ready", "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight", "Firth of Fifth", "Cinema Show", and perhaps "In the Cage" to throw in something from The Lamb. Also, I might include "One for the Vine", but since that one is after Gabriel left and has a bit of a different feel, I might just not include it along the other ones.

richardh wrote: manofmystery wrote: Why can't Genesis fan boys behave more like DT fan boys and bugger off? Sick of this lackluster band dominating this genre.  It's good prog buried under awful singing from a guy in a stupid flower costume.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Stop building it into something it's not. To be fair Jethro Tull is one of my favorite bands of all time but there's absolutely no doubt they made much more interesting music.

oh that WAS good... I would have given that anti-Genesis rant 3 McClappies... but I'm deducting one for the poor tastes displayed at the end.  This was a true battle of prog limp dicks. Titans in the eyes of their fans, to rest of us... YAWN!!!!!!

so 2 McClappies it is

Side 1 of TAAB is full of great melodies which aren't repeated once on the same side. Side 2 has only 5 minutes of repeated melody