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Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16250
Posted: January 26 2015 at 12:02
Guldbamsen wrote:
Maybe so, but the biggest problem (as I see it) is still getting people to listen to it. About 90% of the members here feel at home on this very site, because they don't have anyone to share their taste in music with in real life: 'My friends/wife/ukulele teacher/sister/chef/dad/insert someone can't stand prog!!!!'
I would probably make a stupid statement like ... you sure they know what prog is?
My neighbors are in a similar situation. They are totally attracted to the 1500 LP's and 2K CD's, but they do not realize that there is "music" in them, and they are not (yet) attuned to music in their lives.
For them it seems to be just a phase in their lives, and not something important. And this might be where the music itself has to get better and more important and beyond the 4 minute cut, which is not quite happening. There are a few bands out there, that do so, but they are not exactly getting away from a "format" and specially within a creative context that can not see beyond a format, even with something as strange and weird as putting the end at the beginning and the middle parts in the end. which, silly enough as it may sound, would likely make it more progressive than otherwise!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
The whole entire promotion of sex today is just completely stupied. You're no longer watching natural beauty in a woman. Natural beauty within Clare Danes, Meg Tilly, or even Kim Basinger who was set up to be a beauty queen , but didn't need a "make up" job to look beautiful. It's a ridiculous notion when there is a whole other world of beautiful women out there who are not only superior in intelligence, multi-talented..but strikingly beautiful and with just one look, your entire mind is under a spell causing you to walk around for days thinking and dreaming about her beauty. It's romantic to feel that way and why be ignorant and focus only on your manhood or private parts? Who became God and decided that woman are little toys to play with? That they must be put on display? Could you imagine how Linda McCartney must have felt when she was asked why she did not shave her legs? That's nothing but an ignorant commercialized American attitude. Every European female musician I've worked with NEVER, EVER shaved their legs and they informed me that the men in European countries do not mind it. The mind set is different, the concept, and placing women on display for profit is disgraceful. I know this is going off thread, but I've never felt that women have been accepted as people. I mention this because I've worked with over loads of female artists in the last 40 years and they have all confessed the pressures of the male ego to present them on stage as something insulting to their gender, when honestly?..they are very sincere women who are serious to their art and feel that this often requested act is hurtful and difficult to live with.
Joined: June 23 2013
Location: Cornwall
Status: Offline
Points: 1759
Posted: January 26 2015 at 15:59
It would be impossible for a purely prog rock song to make it onto the charts, no matter how good it is. The music industry is a huge obstacle between great music and a couple billion potential prog fans, and the 2 genres of chart music and this culty genre are basically 2 extremes. There would have to be a huge compromise, or at least combination of the 2 genres (e.g. sex appeal and strong production with intricate music and profound lyrical content about something mundane). By that stage, it would probably have become so diluted as progressive music, it would be something else entirely.
The only hope there is, is a huge underground revolution that overthrows the musical businessmen but obviously there's virtually no chance of that. I guess we'll just have to settle with listening to Nicki Minaj on the radio, and saving prog for a darkened room surrounded by candles and joss sticks
Joined: December 06 2014
Location: Vancouver BC
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Posted: January 26 2015 at 21:01
A prog band can't even be successful in the prog community. People's tastes here are so divers even within the genre. For a prog band to be successful, they have to somehow attract normal music listeners, just like they did in the past.
People used to listen to albums front to back, but now with music listening being programmed into smart phones, it's just a track here and a track there, so the concept album is really in the dumps. Even a non concept album from the past usually had a specific order to the songs on an album. It was a very important part of the presentation.
The same person who fragments their music on the smart phone, will rant about the presentation of their food at some trendy restaurant downtown, and get into a hissy fit on YELP about how the garnishing clashed with the potato swirl that shouldn't have touched the asparagus. But they won't listen to an album like DSOTM in it's entirety unless it's cued up with two joints and The Wizard of Oz.
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26228
Posted: January 27 2015 at 01:42
I was never a fan of the concept album and if anything that is something would have driven me away from the genre. It was a picture of gun toting armadillo that got me interested in prog. So much for being an 'intellectual' ( and also I do like looking at naked pictures of attractive women , sorry Toddler!!). People don't connect that easily with prog and its not that surprising really when you listen to people like Steven Wilson talking. He is so far up his own **** its ridiculous. I like his music though.
I was never a fan of the concept album and if anything that is something would have driven me away from the genre. It was a picture of gun toting armadillo that got me interested in prog. So much for being an 'intellectual' ( and also I do like looking at naked pictures of attractive women , sorry Toddler!!). People don't connect that easily with prog and its not that surprising really when you listen to people like Steven Wilson talking. He is so far up his own **** its ridiculous. I like his music though.
Nothing directly wrong with finding a woman's body attractive. Everything wrong with finding another man's wife attractive if you're acting on it. Sexual promiscuity is not a healthy act and sometimes it breaks up marriages. Although something must be deadly wrong with a marriage anyway if it folds on that account, but then again...a majority of men and women who are into sexual promiscuity and are "playing the field" tend to prey on a married man or woman who display innocence within their character. I believe it's due to sincere innocence being defined as lack of sexual experience by the man or woman who is out for the count. It is quite often that a shallow person attempting to do no more than getting you into bed for personal satisfaction will "sweet talk" you based on their personal judgment that you are naďve or completely stupied..(one or the other), as opposed to having respect for the confidence you might really have in being a devoted husband or wife...and further more revealing to the sincere person that they do not understand a promise. People who are cheaters are dismissive of anyone in life making a promise to another person. I often arrive to the conclusion that their sexual drive rules over the choice to have true love. I've made this observation over the last 40 years of being in the music business. It's crucial.
Joined: November 24 2014
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 872
Posted: January 27 2015 at 08:23
TODDLER wrote:
richardh wrote:
I was never a fan of the concept album and if anything that is something would have driven me away from the genre. It was a picture of gun toting armadillo that got me interested in prog. So much for being an 'intellectual' ( and also I do like looking at naked pictures of attractive women , sorry Toddler!!). People don't connect that easily with prog and its not that surprising really when you listen to people like Steven Wilson talking. He is so far up his own **** its ridiculous. I like his music though.
Nothing directly wrong with finding a woman's body attractive. Everything wrong with finding another man's wife attractive if you're acting on it. Sexual promiscuity is not a healthy act and sometimes it breaks up marriages. Although something must be deadly wrong with a marriage anyway if it folds on that account, but then again...a majority of men and women who are into sexual promiscuity and are "playing the field" tend to prey on a married man or woman who display innocence within their character. I believe it's due to sincere innocence being defined as lack of sexual experience by the man or woman who is out for the count. It is quite often that a shallow person attempting to do no more than getting you into bed for personal satisfaction will "sweet talk" you based on their personal judgment that you are naďve or completely stupied..(one or the other), as opposed to having respect for the confidence you might really have in being a devoted husband or wife...and further more revealing to the sincere person that they do not understand a promise. People who are cheaters are dismissive of anyone in life making a promise to another person. I often arrive to the conclusion that their sexual drive rules over the choice to have true love. I've made this observation over the last 40 years of being in the music business. It's crucial.
waaaay off topic now, but i'd like to add ..
there's 1 right reason for marrying someone.
there's thousands of wrong ones ..
and in my experience I've seen very few people marry for the right reasons.
the others end up on less than solid footing and fall apart with a tiny bit of temptation or trouble.
also - people change. it happens. So even if everything was right, if one person changes or grows and the other doesn't change or grow to match then they are out of sync.
Happy, sane people in great marriages don't cheat.
A prog band can't even be successful in the prog community. People's tastes here are so divers even within the genre. For a prog band to be successful, they have to somehow attract normal music listeners, just like they did in the past.
People used to listen to albums front to back, but now with music listening being programmed into smart phones, it's just a track here and a track there, so the concept album is really in the dumps. Even a non concept album from the past usually had a specific order to the songs on an album. It was a very important part of the presentation.
The same person who fragments their music on the smart phone, will rant about the presentation of their food at some trendy restaurant downtown, and get into a hissy fit on YELP about how the garnishing clashed with the potato swirl that shouldn't have touched the asparagus. But they won't listen to an album like DSOTM in it's entirety unless it's cued up with two joints and The Wizard of Oz.
How do you know this? Most people I know in real life - as well as the ones on PA - are all about the full kahuna, the whole album.....yet they, and I, use phones, Ipods and MP3 players to play the record when away from the old stereo.
This is how you experience Tangerine Dream whilst walking around in a forest - or similarly Magma whilst skiing. I know all these portable devices freak (some) oldtimers completely out, and in some instances I get their concern (8-18 year old American Idol fans), but the whole notion of carrying your music with you into nature far outweighs the negative. The negative comes from the person using the device, not the device itself.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: January 27 2015 at 10:36
I'd further like to state that the importance of listening to the album as a whole rather than discrete tracks gets a bit overstated on here. I get the idea in principle and have followed it for most if not all of my favourite albums. But come on, not every album needs THAT much attention from me. If halfway through I don't feel sufficiently engaged, I am absolutely entitled to get into 'glance' mode and start speed-listening the album, akin to speed-reading. And if an album I have assimilated already is kind of uneven and inconsistent, why should I not selectively listen to those tracks that I prefer? It makes no sense to have to listen to the full album every time, all the time. That is a treat I would reserve for a select few albums which reward that approach to listening the most. Most Pink Floyd albums need to be listened to in toto. Most Gentle Giant albums, not so much. And it's not even that I like PF all that much more than GG. They just approach the album format in very different ways. GG tracks tend to stand alone. Huge swathes of The Wall don't. It is a bit indiscriminate to make up a generalised rule for all prog albums by all bands when they don't even necessarily utilise the album format in the same way.
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46828
Posted: January 29 2015 at 04:51
it ain't never goin' to happen man..
prog can never compare to this man.. I had never heard this song till yesterday. My friend and I were warming up after working outside and he whips out his smartphone (which I seem to be the ONLY one alive well Raff and I that is.. who doesn't have one) and tells me this will warm me up. And you know.. after a few minutes.. I was shakin' my ass... and admiring the ..umm.. scenery. It did the trick.. it sure did warm me up!!
poor Raff... I just heard a groan from the other side of the table hahaha
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: August 18 2013
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 373
Posted: January 29 2015 at 09:33
I have noticed how every rock avant-garde is considered cool these days - except one. The Velvet Underground: cool. The Grateful Dead: cool. Frank Zappa: cool. Krautrock: cool. Industrial: cool. Post-rock: cool. Tool: cool. But progressive rock is considered stuff for nerds - uncool.
Apparently, blowing up the radio single format is cool - as long as it is simply inflated. But once you take changeful dramturgy to it and make multimovement suites, the coolness evaporates like snow on a red-hot boilerplate.
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
"What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes."
I have noticed how every rock avant-garde is considered cool these days - except one. The Velvet Underground: cool. The Grateful Dead: cool. Frank Zappa: cool. Krautrock: cool. Industrial: cool. Post-rock: cool. Tool: cool. But progressive rock is considered stuff for nerds - uncool.
Apparently, blowing up the radio single format is cool - as long as it is simply inflated. But once you take changeful dramturgy to it and make multimovement suites, the coolness evaporates like snow on a red-hot boilerplate.
I have to disagree, I've never met anyone who thinks something avant-garde is cool but doesn't think that progressive rock is cool. To those in the 'mainstream' crowd, for lack of a better term, anything that isn't generic pop or rock is uncool I presume. Maybe I've just been lucky as far as who I meet, but most of the people I know like metal, prog rock, and the like. Also, I've heard more people who think prog rock is cool then Krautrock, most of the people I know don't even know what it is.
I assume by progressive rock, you're not counting prog metal, because Tool is prog metal.
Joined: August 18 2013
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 373
Posted: January 29 2015 at 15:56
Tool certainly aren't prog metal in the sense Dream Theater or Queensr˙che are prog metal. True, it is called prog metal, but it's a different meaning of the term.
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
"What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes."
Tool certainly aren't prog metal in the sense Dream Theater or Queensr˙che are prog metal. True, it is called prog metal, but it's a different meaning of the term.
Progressive music is progressive music, sure there are different ways of being progressive, but as long as you're expanding the boundaries of music and creating a unique and innovative sound you are a progressive band. And of course Tool doesn't sound like Dream Theater, then they wouldn't be progressive. However, even if a band isn't progressive doesn't mean they're bad.
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