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SteveG
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Topic: Apostrophe: Frank Zappa Posted: January 17 2015 at 11:49 |
Don't eat the yellow snow! How does Apostrophe by FZ hold up over all these years?
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TeleStrat
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Posted: January 17 2015 at 12:01 |
I really like Zappa's seventies music. I can listen to Apostrophe today just as easily as I could then. I can say the same thing about all of his albums from that decade (at least the ones I own).
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HolyMoly
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Posted: January 17 2015 at 12:49 |
Extremely overrated, as much as I hate that word. I still like it, and I can't say Zappa ever put out a mediocre album, but I don't quite see how Apostrophe and Overnite Sensation are considered as highly as they are. Roxy and Elsewhere, yes, I can see that. Even Hot Rats (which I'm not personally too fond of), but this album is short, lyrically random, and just feels like a glorified EP that meant to be something bigger and better. On the other hand, the sonic detail is impressive - he definitely wasn't halfassing it in that regard. I think this is Dweezil's favorite so the latest generation of Zappa fans tends to view it with added bias.
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SteveG
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Posted: January 17 2015 at 12:55 |
I feel that Apostrophe is overrated too, but I dare not say that to my Zappa fan friends!
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HolyMoly
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Posted: January 17 2015 at 13:11 |
I was a daily visitor to the Zappa forum for a few years(moshkito used to do his thing over there too) where it was pretty much a given that the man was a god who could do no wrong. I subscribed to that view for 20+ years. Now I'm more critical of him, perhaps overly so.
Edited by HolyMoly - January 17 2015 at 13:12
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
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Posted: January 17 2015 at 20:28 |
This is an odd album. Clocking in at just over a half-hour, featuring a close-up of his hairy mug, this was one of my later purchases during my Zappa LP hunting (up to 33), and it really should've come earlier, as the quality of this set of tunes is top-shelf. Great album. The title-track jam with the mighty Jack Bruce on bass is choice. And the over-all sound/production is kinda 'cute' - has this crispy, tinkly, mid-70's Fusiony sound ( ) which I like a lot.
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: January 17 2015 at 21:23 |
SteveG wrote:
I feel that Apostrophe is overrated too, but I dare not say that to my Zappa fan friends! |
Apostrophe and Overnite Sensation were the first Zappa albums I owned. I will always love them. "Cosmik Debris" has one of sleaziest blues leads ever created, "Uncle Remus" is one of Zappa's greatest sly political statements (in this case, regarding racism), I enjoy freaking out people in my office singing "Yellow Snow/Nanook Rubs It/St. Alfonzo's Pancake Breakfast" verbatim, and we even learned a scientific term from Uncle Frank, "bromhidrosis". Fantastically funny album. The problem, and even I as a fan can see it, is that Apostrophe and Overnite Sensation were very popular but marginalized Zappa as an artist. He became the weird mustachioed guy that played the funny stuff Dr. Demento aired on the radio, along with Napoleon XIV's "They're Coming to Take Me Away". Sort of like a 70s version of Weird Al Yankovic, but without covers. For whatever reason, Zappa promoted this marginalization with idiotic later releases like "Valley Girl", "Jewish Princess" and "Dancing Fool". You never heard Joe's Garage on the radio, but you'd hear Zappa's inanities. I ignored him for a long time, and have only been relistening to much older Zappa/Mothers stuff within the last 20 years.
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: January 17 2015 at 21:40 |
What qualifies as 'overrated' - 3 or 4 stars ??
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HackettFan
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Posted: January 17 2015 at 21:59 |
Over-rated in the sense that there are better albums. I like Cosmik Debris and Stinkfoot. Overall, a fine era, though I tend toward other albums, like the slightly later One Size Fits All - Inca Roads especially.
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: January 17 2015 at 22:03 |
Yes yes yes - Inca Roads. 'twas Willie The Pimp that got me into Frank back in '89. Then Inca Roads, then Filthy Habits, then 33 albums later......
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floflo79
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Posted: January 18 2015 at 02:20 |
Apostrophe is one of his finest work. And Jack Bruce (RIP) bass playing is delightful.
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irrelevant
Collaborator
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Posted: January 18 2015 at 07:53 |
It's a hoot!
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micky
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Posted: January 18 2015 at 08:37 |
SteveG wrote:
Don't eat the yellow snow! How does Apostrophe by FZ hold up over all these years? |
It better... it is still my favorite album of his.
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moshkito
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Posted: January 18 2015 at 11:30 |
HolyMoly wrote:
Extremely overrated, as much as I hate that word. I still like it, and I can't say Zappa ever put out a mediocre album, but I don't quite see how Apostrophe and Overnite Sensation are considered as highly as they are. |
They are, by very far, the two most commercial sounding albums of all, and thus, by consequence, the ones that most folks tend to go to and have an easier time listening to.
Both are excellent, and they made for magnificent radio play in the early FM radio days for many years. Not only was the music well done, but the material was toned down a bit so more folk would stop looking for 4 letter words and complaint to the FCC, and in those days Frank Zappa was a major artist to look for these words!
For many of us, in so many ways, "seasoned" listeners, these two albums might not be as good as others, but I gave up, a long time ago, choosing a better/best album as something silly and just plain childish of myself!
HolyMoly wrote:
... Roxy and Elsewhere, yes, I can see that. Even Hot Rats (which I'm not personally too fond of), but this album is short, lyrically random, and just feels like a glorified EP that meant to be something bigger and better. On the other hand, the sonic detail is impressive - he definitely wasn't halfassing it in that regard. |
Roxy and Elsewhere showed to many folks what the bootlegs had been saying all along for almost 10 years ... that Frank Zappa was way better in concert than he was in any album, where he second guessed himself way too much! And I am a believer that this is the problem with the stuff in the Zappa Trust, that they do not know how to handle ... there is way too much "rehearsal" and "concert" material that has no title and no definition, and is likely to be a difficult listen to "rock audiences" and their "limited" listening. I don't think that the Trust wants to alienate the "rock fans" and in the process, they are limiting Frank's abilities and talents down to mediocre and sad.
HolyMoly wrote:
...I think this is Dweezil's favorite so the latest generation of Zappa fans tends to view it with added bias. |
It would be ... it is the simplest of all the compositions for Dweezil to copy and redo. he does not ahve the ability to see things beyond the rock music, guitar song, concept. Everything else for him is just a "show" and not real music. Sorry ... I like ZpZ, but Dweezil needs some coming down to the level of music, and not star!
HolyMoly wrote:
I was a daily visitor to the Zappa forum for a few years(moshkito used to do his thing over there too) where it was pretty much a given that the man was a god who could do no wrong. I subscribed to that view for 20+ years. Now I'm more critical of him, perhaps overly so. |
I have always posted that this was not a star, or a rock this and that. Frank was Frank and that was that. The saddest thing I have ever seen is that his best music will never be heard, because the folks "inside" only know rock stars and rock this and that, and have no concept or idea what "music" is, and why Frank said the things he said about music, and even put down his guitar once when a fan screamed!
It's all being wasted, by lack of understanding. Guy Guden in one of his blogs had a nice hint of it, and I think some of the best work by that man has been hidden for too long, and will never be heard in our lifetimes!
It's what happens to most major artists, writers and musicians ... no one knows anything or can understand anything until after the person is dead!
Why are you surprised? Understanding is not a "now" thing, and never has been ... we have to gesticulate, masticate and regurgitate it 10,000 times before we can feel anything ... and personally, I do not think that is any artist's fault! it's a problem with listeners and their conditioning to only know what they hear and see ... there couldn't possibly be anything else in one's life!
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zappaholic
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Posted: January 18 2015 at 15:27 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
[QUOTE=SteveG]For whatever reason, Zappa promoted this marginalization with idiotic later releases like "Valley Girl", "Jewish Princess" and "Dancing Fool". |
He explained that the reason for that was so that he could afford to do more "serious" stuff. Pure economics. Apostrophe - good but not one of the best. Still, as good an entry point as any.
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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dr wu23
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Posted: January 18 2015 at 17:26 |
I like it...and it's a hoot as one of the members said above.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 08:50 |
zappaholic wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
[QUOTE=SteveG]For whatever reason, Zappa promoted this marginalization with idiotic later releases like "Valley Girl", "Jewish Princess" and "Dancing Fool". |
He explained that the reason for that was so that he could afford to do more "serious" stuff. Pure economics.
Apostrophe - good but not one of the best. Still, as good an entry point as any.
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I think there was more to it than that.
He could compare his staff (now now ... keep it clean please!!!) with that of a lot of stuff that Yo Yo Ma and many other "classical" turkeys out there would be playing in many college campus' and it would be easy to discern, who was the better and more interesting composer and writer.
However, because so much of this stuff was "electric", too much of academia has determined that it can not be considered classical music, or good music ... and Frank took some sadistic pleasure in making fun of that and related materials. Well, not to mention that for folks here this is just a song ... I'm sure Frank would have loved to hear that!
In many ways, Frank is the Fellini equivalent in music ... too much lard ... too much make up ... ugly as sin ... etc ... etc ... and many folks don't like it, and find it insulting. It's not pleasant in some cases, but I find a certain sadistic satisfaction in making fun of the huge number of buffoons that passed through our house that were considered "scholars" and "professors", all of which had piss and words that supposedly was better than Champagne and poop that smelled better than pork or beef! And the perfumes ... you don't even want to hear about that ... good thing you could not smell them on a Fellini film!
Edited by moshkito - January 19 2015 at 09:14
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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TODDLER
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Posted: January 20 2015 at 12:39 |
It always rings a bell because of Jim Gordon...the most "in demand" session drummer of the 60's, 70's, and maybe even part of the 80's. Just curious if many people here have ever done a search ON Jim Gordon to count the number of sessions he ACTUALLY did. It's very strange to think about turning on a radio , (or being subjected to one), changing one station to the next and not being able to avoid hearing his drumming. He was completely outstanding and played beautifully on "Imaginary Diseases". The way Jim Gordon approaches the drums on that recording is in a world of it's own. Apostrophe is a beautiful Frank Zappa album containing some of the most outstanding composition. I love every track and especially get a thrill out of Ruth Underwood's performance.
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Evolver
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Posted: January 20 2015 at 16:23 |
floflo79 wrote:
Apostrophe is one of his finest work. And Jack Bruce (RIP) bass playing is delightful. |
This. What I don't get are all the people who think Joe's Garage is one of his best.
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Evolver
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Posted: January 20 2015 at 16:28 |
moshkito wrote:
He could compare his staff (now now ... keep it clean please!!!) with that of a lot of stuff that Yo Yo Ma and many other "classical" turkeys out there would be playing in many college campus' and it would be easy to discern, who was the better and more interesting composer and writer.
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I know for a fact that Yo Yo Ma is a Zappa fan. I'm not sure I understand your "turkeys" remark.
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