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Topic ClosedWhich was the first real concept LP: SP or DOFP?

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Poll Question: Which was the first real concept LP: SP or DOFP?
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progpositivity View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Which was the first real concept LP: SP or DOFP?
    Posted: February 07 2015 at 19:52
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by progpositivity progpositivity wrote:

I submit Brian Wilson's "Pet Sounds" as the first art-rock concept album. 
 
What exactly is the "concept" of Pet Sounds?
 
 
A bit of a stretch?  Perhaps.  It appears you will think so.  In any event, here goes.  I've italicized the paragraph below which explains the manner in which I considered Pet Sounds to be a concept album of sorts.
 
Pet Sounds was an entire album held together not by a single plotline like the day in the life of an average man... nor was it to be held together by a simplistic motif like every song being about water or love...  Rather it was a collection of sonic gems integrally interconnected conceptually by a systematic approach to exploring relational themes in lyrics, using the studio as a complex instrument, expanding the instrumentation and tonal color used in popular rock music, and the introduction of unconventional vocal harmonies and atypical chord progressions, etc.
 
So Pet Sounds introduced many people to the very concept of the rock album as a synergistic vehicle (with the whole album experience being greater than the sum of the individual song experiences), one which showcased rock and roll music as art.  With this concept, Pet Sounds set the stage for the Beatles to release Sgt. Pepper which further set the stage for a plethora of conceptual art rock albums to ensue.  
 
But I do understand your perspective.  If one limits themselves to a more strict (and commonly used) definition for 'concept album', one which has a specific story line, recurring characters, etc., then Pet Sounds doesn't qualify as a concept album. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2015 at 19:20
Yeah but Zappa probably only rejected it as being progressive rock because that genre label designation sorta' freaked him out. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2015 at 12:09
Originally posted by jacksiedanny jacksiedanny wrote:

Zappa himself rejected it as being progressive rock. (I believe it angered him to have freak Out associated in any way.)

Don't know what that proves, since Van der Graaf Generator also rejects the label.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2015 at 10:14
Here is one of the best:

NEIL'S HEAVY CONCEPT ALBUM

From a member of the UK comedy series, The Young Ones
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2015 at 09:53
oh, a new genre.......novelty music
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2015 at 09:03
Zappa himself rejected it as being progressive rock. (I believe it angered him to have freak Out associated in any way.) Much of Freak Out is just novelty music. I did a track by track evaluation somewhere on the net .

GO AWAY!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2015 at 08:46
Originally posted by jacksiedanny jacksiedanny wrote:

Freakout is not prog. Zappa's ghost will haunt you for  intimating this.
Freak Out is Prog because it fits the PA definition at large and the RIO/Avant genre specifically. I always called it Art Rock before coming to PA. However, If Zappa is rejected as Prog, then there are several whole genres that would have to be eliminated by logical implication.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2015 at 08:10
I know.
You should be humbled that I confirmed it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2015 at 23:39
Originally posted by jacksiedanny jacksiedanny wrote:

It took a bit of digging but I now see NIRVANA Simon Simopath twee baroque popsike lp was released Oct '67.
 
You could have saved yourself some trouble by reading the rest of this thread.  I pointed this out on page 3.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2015 at 21:22
Originally posted by progpositivity progpositivity wrote:

I submit Brian Wilson's "Pet Sounds" as the first art-rock concept album. 

My two cents would be that Pet Sounds doesn't quite cut it as an out-and-out concept album, but that what musical and emotional uniformity there is on the record comes close, and I agree with the conclusions of most musicologists that the album did much to open the door to full on concept albums in pop and rock, and within a year even.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2015 at 20:14
It took a bit of digging but I now see NIRVANA Simon Simopath twee baroque popsike lp was released Oct '67.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2015 at 19:53
Originally posted by progpositivity progpositivity wrote:

I submit Brian Wilson's "Pet Sounds" as the first art-rock concept album. 
 
What exactly is the "concept" of Pet Sounds?
 
Originally posted by progpositivity progpositivity wrote:

OK.  Thanks for waiting.  You may begin 'shouting me down' now.  Wink
 
No shouting, I just do not at all see any sort of theme or concept or interrelated sound that ties the album together. This does not in any way detract from the album or its status as a great release, it just does not make it a "concept" in the same way Days of Future Past is (and the same way Sgt. Pepper is not a concept as I stated earlier).
 
S.F. Sorrow by the Pretty Things, now that is a concept album, and so is The Who Sell Out (nominally, at least).


Edited by The Dark Elf - February 06 2015 at 19:54
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2015 at 19:27
Did I say Freak Out was prog? Or did you perhaps misread what I said?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2015 at 19:09
Freakout is not prog. Zappa's ghost will haunt you for  intimating this.

.....

Days Of Future Passed  was released Nov '67

ZODIAC- COSMIC SOUNDS   , "psychrock" concept lp  was released May '67

Hayward has come clear that the LA session men lp (including big names like Mort Garson,Hal Blaine & Paul Beaver) was a direct influence on Days Of Future Passed.

The instrumental on side one of "Are You Sitting Comfortably?" lp is a direct lift from Zodiac lp.

Black Sabbath, East of Eden and Writing On The Wall all "borrowed" from Zodiac.


Zodiac lp is legendary.
It is quite telling that no one on this thread brought it up.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2015 at 18:40
I submit Brian Wilson's "Pet Sounds" as the first art-rock concept album.  OK, technically it is a Beach Boys album and the rest of the guys did contribute to some extent.  But there is no denying that Brian was its true progenitor, is there?

 

Please, if you will, allow me at least a few moments to explain myself before you shout me down...  The albums 'progressive' nature can be hard for modern ears to detect.  It may sound less than remarkable and noteworthy at first.  But one must approach it with ears tuned to the context of its time in order to understand its progressive nature.   To a much lesser extent, I find this to be true of Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon".  When teenagers hear that album, I have to explain what a sonic "difference maker" it was, how incredibly it "stood out" from the soundscape of popular recorded music at the time.  Some of the innovative ways sounds were used musically in DSotM are now rather commonplace across multiple genres of very popular music.
 
And if the progressive musical nature of the Pet Sounds album is elusive, the manner in which it qualifies as a unified whole (concept) album is doubly so.  But that doesn't mean that it was any less uniquely and conceptually bound together at the time of its release.
 
Although it is true that Brian himself didn't see it as a collection of songs intended to tell a linear story, within the context of where rock and roll albums were at that time, he did intend it to be viewed as a unified conceptual artistic statement from start to finish, a cohesive unit, an inter-related collection of miniature sonic art pieces, each worthy of exhibition together (with absolutely no filler and no throwaways).
 
It was an entire album to be held together not by a single plotline like the day in the life of an average man... nor was it to be held together by a simplistic motif like every song being about water or love... 
 
Rather it was to be a collection of sonic gems integrally interconnected conceptually by a systematic approach to exploring relational themes in lyrics, using the studio as a complex instrument, expanding the instrumentation and tonal color used in popular rock music, and the introduction of unconventional vocal harmonies and atypical chord progressions, etc.
 
This would be the album to prod Paul McCartney to strive for the songs to be conceptually interrelated and perhaps even for John Lennon and George Martin to increasingly paint sounds with a wider variety of psych tonal colors on Sgt. Peppers. 
 
As usual, if the Beatles weren't the first to the party, they were certainly early adopters whose attendance heralded the subsequent rush of arriving multitudes (many of whom probably mistakenly thought the Beatles were the hosts of the party in the first place).
 
So Sgt. Peppers both reflected and paved the way (popularized) the concept of "art rock", rock music to listen to seriously, and very obviously hinted toward how very "hip" it would soon become to create "concept albums".
 
Since Pet Sounds wasn't an available choice, I'll select its closest companion.  Sgt. Peppers.
 
OK.  Thanks for waiting.  You may begin 'shouting me down' now.  Wink


Edited by progpositivity - February 06 2015 at 18:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2015 at 13:53
Originally posted by Bitterblogger Bitterblogger wrote:

Originally posted by Wakeman's Birotron Wakeman's Birotron wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


Really! Not one single Beatles obsessed fan yet! LOL

I'm kind of a Beatles obsessed fan myself, but still I'd never give them credit for things they never did. I think their overall influence is often overrated.

 
Wow. Quite an outlier view of the Beatles' influence. Most everyone else would say it could hardly be overrated: musicians, critics, and fans.

I'm not deying their importance at all. In fact, they were arguably the most influential of all rock bands. That being said, I do think that a lot of fans and critics tend to exaggerate their importance by saying, by example, that they created Hard Rock with Helter Skelter or that Sgt Pepper's was the first concept album.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2015 at 13:14
In terms of a concept album, Sgt. Pepper was a great idea but a failure in the end and the Moodies have an obvious edge on this one. But musically, there will never be a better album than the Beatles masterpiece. Not even CTTE or SEBTP
There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2015 at 12:26
Originally posted by Wakeman's Birotron Wakeman's Birotron wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


Really! Not one single Beatles obsessed fan yet! LOL

I'm kind of a Beatles obsessed fan myself, but still I'd never give them credit for things they never did. I think their overall influence is often overrated.
 
Wow. Quite an outlier view of the Beatles' influence. Most everyone else would say it could hardly be overrated: musicians, critics, and fans.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2015 at 20:58

The Moody Blues, Days of Future Passed.

When he rides, my fears subside.
For darkness turns once more to light.
Through the skies, his white horse flies.
To find a land beyond the night.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 31 2015 at 17:15
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

I think the 1st concept album was actually Freak Out! 1966
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


^Shocked
 
Ok, that will be the next poll!
Sorry, didn't see this.

Edited by HackettFan - January 31 2015 at 17:16
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