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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 10065
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Posted: February 09 2015 at 13:35 |
micky wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Kansas is cursed with several stigmas:
1) the anti-American bias that permeates this forum (yes, it's there, so don't even argue about it,
2) they actually sold albums (King Crimson never sold albums, therefore they must be great prog),
3) they were liked by non-prog listeners (a reason why Pink Floyd can't possibly be prog), and they were unfortunately lumped in with the corporate rock quagmire of the late 70s (StyxBostonForeignerREOSpeedwagonJourney, et al) that eventually destroyed rock as we knew it. But they are prog, stigmatically-speaking. |
oh hell yeah. Well said.
Agree with you 100% on all those points.
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Pfff... you american ignorants thinking that the rest of the world bought all your lame american rockmusic. King Crimson had a number one album in the UK and several in the top ten there and in many parts of Europe. Kansas, Styx, REO Speedwagon, Journey, Boston, Kansas and all that crap had had a hit or two but were nowhere near as big over here. They were your local mediocre radiofriendly rockbands that every country in the world has their own local version of.
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Enchant X
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 31 2014
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 867
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Posted: February 09 2015 at 14:03 |
Saperlipopette! Just so long as I think you are spouting off about something you know nothing about , how could you ? putting Kansas in the same bracket as those other Rich extremely commercially successful American classic rock bands ... my advice .. listen to a Kansas Album first such as Leftoverture then tell us about the life changing experience otherwise just STFU
Edited by Enchant X - February 09 2015 at 14:05
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Cristi
Special Collaborator
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams
Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Online
Points: 41425
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Posted: February 09 2015 at 14:09 |
some people need to chill - LOL - I'm amazed this thread, of no relevance whatsoever, has already 3 pages.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: February 09 2015 at 14:42 |
Saperlipopette! wrote:
Pfff... you american ignorants thinking that the rest of the world bought all your lame american rockmusic. King Crimson had a number one album in the UK and several in the top ten there and in many parts of Europe. Kansas, Styx, REO Speedwagon, Journey, Boston, Kansas and all that crap had had a hit or two but were nowhere near as big over here. They were your local mediocre radiofriendly rockbands that every country in the world has their own local version of. |
A N° 1 LP for a couple of weeks means almost nothing in the musical context.
Prog was never as popular as mainstream as some people want to make us believe, and the prove is this:
1974 was the most prolific year in Prog and this are the UK charts of 1974
01 | David Essex | Gonna Make You A Star | 02 | The Three Degrees | When Will I See You Again | 03 | Charles Aznavour | She | 04 | George McCrae | Rock Your Baby | 05 | Terry Jacks | Seasons In The Sun | 06 | Paper Lace | Billy, Don't Be A Hero | 07 | Mud | Tiger Feet | 08 | The Rubettes | Sugar Baby Love | 09 | Ken Boothe | Everything I Own | 10 | Carl Douglas | Kung Fu Fighting | 11 | Barry White | You're The First, The Last, My Everything | 12 | John Denver | Annie's Song | 13 | The Osmonds | Love Me For A Reason | 14 | Suzi Quatro | Devil Gate Drive | 15 | The Drifters | Kissin' In The Back Row | 16 | Abba | Waterloo | 17 | Showaddywaddy | Hey Rock And Roll | 18 | The New Seekers | You Won't Find Another Fool Like Me | 19 | The Stylistics | You Make Me Feel Brand New | 20 | The Hollies | The Air That I Breathe | 21 | Wombles | Wombling Song | 22 | Alvin Stardust | Jealous Mind | 23 | Ray Stevens | The Streak | 24 | Sylvia | Y Viva Espana | 25 | Charlie Rich | The Most Beautiful Girl | 26 | Donny & Marie Osmond | I'm Leaving It All Up To You | 27 | Queen | Killer Queen | 28 | Wombles | Remember You're A Womble | 29 | The Sweet | Teenage Rampage | 30 | Mud | Lonely This Christmas |
So all the noise about cheesy Americans is absurd.
PS: I'm not from USA and most of the music I listen is from UK and Italy
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ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Researcher
Joined: August 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4659
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Posted: February 09 2015 at 15:46 |
Saperlipopette! wrote:
King Crimson had a number one album in the UK and several in the top ten there and in many parts of Europe. |
Not that it matters, but King Crimson never had a #1 album in the UK. ITCHYCOCK made it to #5 and wasn't certified Gold until 44 years after its release.
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"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 10065
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Posted: February 09 2015 at 16:00 |
Enchant X wrote:
<span id="userPro41" ="msgSidePro" title="View Drop Down">Saperlipopette! </span>Just so long as I think you are spouting off about something you know nothing about , how could you ? putting Kansas in the same bracket as those other Rich extremely commercially successful American classic rock bands ... my advice .. listen to a Kansas Album first such as Leftoverture then tell us about the life changing experience otherwise just STFU
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I did that to insult you because you're an idiot. I know Kansas and I can't stand them. thankfully they are as obscure as Starcastle (and Styx for that matter) where I live and unike King Crimson I have never heard them played on the radio.
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: February 09 2015 at 18:15 |
In other words, you purposely break forum rules to get you little opinion out.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: February 09 2015 at 18:16 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Walton Street
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 24 2014
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 872
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Posted: February 09 2015 at 18:23 |
i know i couldn't care enough one way or the other to call someone an idiot over it.
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"I know one thing: that I know nothing"
- SpongeBob Socrates
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progpositivity
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 15 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 262
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Posted: February 09 2015 at 19:33 |
Some of Kansas' songs are prog and some aren't. But certainly 'Magnum Opus' from Leftoverture is.
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 12736
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Posted: February 09 2015 at 23:30 |
Saperlipopette! wrote:
micky wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Kansas is cursed with several stigmas:
1) the anti-American bias that permeates this forum (yes, it's there, so don't even argue about it,
2) they actually sold albums (King Crimson never sold albums, therefore they must be great prog),
3) they were liked by non-prog listeners (a reason why Pink Floyd can't possibly be prog), and they were unfortunately lumped in with the corporate rock quagmire of the late 70s (StyxBostonForeignerREOSpeedwagonJourney, et al) that eventually destroyed rock as we knew it. But they are prog, stigmatically-speaking. |
oh hell yeah. Well said.
Agree with you 100% on all those points.
| Pfff... you american ignorants thinking that the rest of the world bought all your lame american rockmusic. King Crimson had a number one album in the UK and several in the top ten there and in many parts of Europe. Kansas, Styx, REO Speedwagon, Journey, Boston, Kansas and all that crap had had a hit or two but were nowhere near as big over here. They were your local mediocre radiofriendly rockbands that every country in the world has their own local version of. |
As I stated previously, American bias. Congratulations on your clueless bigotry. Thanks for proving my point in such a classless manner.
Edited by The Dark Elf - February 09 2015 at 23:32
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: February 10 2015 at 10:58 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
micky wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Kansas is cursed with several stigmas:
1) the anti-American bias that permeates this forum (yes, it's there, so don't even argue about it,
2) they actually sold albums (King Crimson never sold albums, therefore they must be great prog),
3) they were liked by non-prog listeners (a reason why Pink Floyd can't possibly be prog), and they were unfortunately lumped in with the corporate rock quagmire of the late 70s (StyxBostonForeignerREOSpeedwagonJourney, et al) that eventually destroyed rock as we knew it. But they are prog, stigmatically-speaking. |
oh hell yeah. Well said.
Agree with you 100% on all those points.
| Pfff... you american ignorants thinking that the rest of the world bought all your lame american rockmusic. King Crimson had a number one album in the UK and several in the top ten there and in many parts of Europe. Kansas, Styx, REO Speedwagon, Journey, Boston, Kansas and all that crap had had a hit or two but were nowhere near as big over here. They were your local mediocre radiofriendly rockbands that every country in the world has their own local version of. |
As I stated previously, American bias. Congratulations on your clueless bigotry. Thanks for proving my point in such a classless manner.
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I rarely agree with The Dark Elf, but this time I can only applaud his last post
Iván
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: February 10 2015 at 11:25 |
Yeah, music does not owe anything to America
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Enchant X
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 31 2014
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 867
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Posted: February 10 2015 at 12:58 |
Saperlipopette! I have been into King Crimson for over 30
years , I own almost everything they have done ! great band inconsistent but great... There's nowhere you have been that I haven't been progressively speaking , that's the difference I know what I`m talking about you just make sh*t up ... by the way Starcastle 's first two albums are great some of their counterpoint is some of the best I've ever heard perhaps even better than Yes .. and Styx had some great albums as well if you bother to examine what you are spouting off about , which clearly is too hard for you to do ....
Edited by Enchant X - February 10 2015 at 13:08
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Metalmarsh89
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 15 2013
Location: Oregon, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2673
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Posted: February 10 2015 at 13:45 |
ClemofNazareth wrote:
When I joined PA 'Leftoverture' and 'Point of Know Return' were both in the Top 100 and 'Song for America' was bubbling a bit under. Sure, I'd like to see those three as well as 'Masque' and 'Somewhere to Elsewhere', and even the reconstructed first Proto-Kaw in the Top 100. But ultimately that's up to the 50,000+ global membership to decide with their reviews and ratings, and aside from Zappa and Miles Davis most American artists tend to be somewhat discounted by large portions of our membership. |
Dream Theater still gets a fair amount of positive attention, along with the negative. They've got 2 comfortably in the top 100. I just checked and it looks like Kayo Dot's debut album just nudged Kansas back out.
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20491
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Posted: February 10 2015 at 14:05 |
Raff wrote:
Stool Man wrote:
Looking at the Top 250, there are many albums that some might find surprising to be outside the Top 100 (for example "Songs From The Wood", "Phaedra", "For Girls Who Grow Plump In The Night", "Brain Salad Surgery" etc). But obviously the Top 100 albums can only include one hundred albums, regardless of subgenre, decade, or where the band is from. There are over fortysix thousand albums listed on PA, so less than 0.25% of them can be in the Top 100 at any time.
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This. Personally, I don't agree with many of the albums that are currently part of the Top 100, but that's democracy for you. Obviously, if ratings are taken into account, it is not surprising to see a non-prog album (though a masterpiece by every other name) such as Miles Davis' Kind of Blue rank very high in the Top 100. That being said, I don't think Leftoverture's inclusion in the Top 100 is any more puzzling than that of quite a few other albums.
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I apparently missed this post and reply the first time around , but I agree with both Stool and Raff. Having said that I do like Kansas but not sure if any of their albums should be in the 'top 100' or the .25% crowd.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26227
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Posted: February 10 2015 at 14:48 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
Pfff... you american ignorants thinking that the rest of the world bought all your lame american rockmusic. King Crimson had a number one album in the UK and several in the top ten there and in many parts of Europe. Kansas, Styx, REO Speedwagon, Journey, Boston, Kansas and all that crap had had a hit or two but were nowhere near as big over here. They were your local mediocre radiofriendly rockbands that every country in the world has their own local version of. |
A N° 1 LP for a couple of weeks means almost nothing in the musical context.
Prog was never as popular as mainstream as some people want to make us believe, and the prove is this:
1974 was the most prolific year in Prog and this are the UK charts of 1974
01 | David Essex | Gonna Make You A Star | 02 | The Three Degrees | When Will I See You Again | 03 | Charles Aznavour | She | 04 | George McCrae | Rock Your Baby | 05 | Terry Jacks | Seasons In The Sun | 06 | Paper Lace | Billy, Don't Be A Hero | 07 | Mud | Tiger Feet | 08 | The Rubettes | Sugar Baby Love | 09 | Ken Boothe | Everything I Own | 10 | Carl Douglas | Kung Fu Fighting | 11 | Barry White | You're The First, The Last, My Everything | 12 | John Denver | Annie's Song | 13 | The Osmonds | Love Me For A Reason | 14 | Suzi Quatro | Devil Gate Drive | 15 | The Drifters | Kissin' In The Back Row | 16 | Abba | Waterloo | 17 | Showaddywaddy | Hey Rock And Roll | 18 | The New Seekers | You Won't Find Another Fool Like Me | 19 | The Stylistics | You Make Me Feel Brand New | 20 | The Hollies | The Air That I Breathe | 21 | Wombles | Wombling Song | 22 | Alvin Stardust | Jealous Mind | 23 | Ray Stevens | The Streak | 24 | Sylvia | Y Viva Espana | 25 | Charlie Rich | The Most Beautiful Girl | 26 | Donny & Marie Osmond | I'm Leaving It All Up To You | 27 | Queen | Killer Queen | 28 | Wombles | Remember You're A Womble | 29 | The Sweet | Teenage Rampage | 30 | Mud | Lonely This Christmas |
So all the noise about cheesy Americans is absurd.
PS: I'm not from USA and most of the music I listen is from UK and Italy |
You do realise that was the UK singles chart and indeed it was total pants as I well remember at the time ( well except The Wombles - they ruled )
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zwordser
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2008
Location: Southwest US
Status: Offline
Points: 1361
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Posted: February 10 2015 at 18:08 |
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
ClemofNazareth wrote:
When I joined PA 'Leftoverture' and 'Point of Know Return' were both in the Top 100 and 'Song for America' was bubbling a bit under. Sure, I'd like to see those three as well as 'Masque' and 'Somewhere to Elsewhere', and even the reconstructed first Proto-Kaw in the Top 100. But ultimately that's up to the 50,000+ global membership to decide with their reviews and ratings, and aside from Zappa and Miles Davis most American artists tend to be somewhat discounted by large portions of our membership. | Dream Theater still gets a fair amount of positive attention, along with the negative. They've got 2 comfortably in the top 100.
I just checked and it looks like Kayo Dot's debut album just nudged Kansas back out.
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You're sure? I just checked and its still in the 100 spot with Kayo Dot just below, though I know there's a lot of shifting around in that 100 area.
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Z
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Metalmarsh89
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 15 2013
Location: Oregon, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2673
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Posted: February 10 2015 at 22:07 |
zwordser wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
ClemofNazareth wrote:
When I joined PA 'Leftoverture' and 'Point of Know Return' were both in the Top 100 and 'Song for America' was bubbling a bit under. Sure, I'd like to see those three as well as 'Masque' and 'Somewhere to Elsewhere', and even the reconstructed first Proto-Kaw in the Top 100. But ultimately that's up to the 50,000+ global membership to decide with their reviews and ratings, and aside from Zappa and Miles Davis most American artists tend to be somewhat discounted by large portions of our membership. | Dream Theater still gets a fair amount of positive attention, along with the negative. They've got 2 comfortably in the top 100.
I just checked and it looks like Kayo Dot's debut album just nudged Kansas back out.
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You're sure? I just checked and its still in the 100 spot with Kayo Dot just below, though I know there's a lot of shifting around in that 100 area.
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Must be shifting around. Perhaps people have gone to rate various albums they haven't rated already in that part of the spectrum one way or the other.
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Enchant X
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 31 2014
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 867
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Posted: February 10 2015 at 23:53 |
I assure you Kansas output is very relevant .. this thread comes about from Kansas being so underrated . Kansas themselves have given me plenty of prog happiness through the years, its something worth defending with extreme opposition if needs be , Kansas are not just another band , they come from a special planet where great bands come from , its sad for me to see so many people miss the opportunity of enjoying their music based solely on ignorance ... what are you afraid of they might be better than what you hold so dear ... get a copy of Leftoverture and give it the three play rule if its not happening for you then at least you tried.
Edited by Enchant X - February 10 2015 at 23:59
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