Kansas in the top 100

Stool Man wrote: I'm one of those people who don't consider Kansas to be prog at all.

You mean, "wrong?" 

ClemofNazareth wrote: The Truth wrote: ClemofNazareth wrote: When I joined PA 'Leftoverture' and 'Point of Know Return' were both in the Top 100 and 'Song for America' was bubbling a bit under.   Sure, I'd like to see those three as well as 'Masque' and 'Somewhere to Elsewhere', and even the reconstructed first Proto-Kaw in the Top 100.  But ultimately that's up to the 50,000+ global membership to decide with their reviews and ratings, and aside from Zappa and Miles Davis most American artists tend to be somewhat discounted by large portions of our membership.   Never tried the Proto-Kaw stuff, you would recommend it?   Definitely.   The back story for 'Early Recordings' alone should be enough to interest most prog fans.  These are mostly Livgren-penned songs written as far back as 1970 and originally recorded by an early Kansas lineup that predates any of current or former members besides Kerry.  There are a couple songs that were re-recorded by the more famous Kansas lineup.  'Before Came After' features completed or at least reworked bits and pieces of stuff from the early days, while 'The Wait of Glory' is comprised of new material and showcases a group of very mature musicians with a tight sound along the lines of Salem Hill, Crack the Sky, IQ.  I wasn't as impressed with 'Forth' but there were some issues with keeping the group together by that point given they all had day jobs and none of them were inclined to try and make a full-time go of it.

I, too, remember when Point of Know Return was on the list.

Incidentally, they have a documentary coming out this spring with all the original members featured on it, as well as commentary from other artists like Garth Brooks and Brian May.  The trailer looked cool.

Kansas strikes me as the kind of intricate-minded rock band that could both win over enough AORiented fans to land an album in the top 100 prog, but also to get tagged as "not prog" by enough members to end up with a lot of members voting that album as not belonging in the top 100.  Even many of their proggiest albums were a combo of prog and other less complex rock forms.

sleeper wrote: Enchant X wrote: Kansas are easily one of the best prog rock bands ever !!! very few prog bands come close (listen to Magnum Opus, Cheyenne Anthem, Miracles out of Nowhere ...  etc ) ... top 100 is a complete insult and shows us how musically illiterate most people on prog archives really are.  One of the main reasons I don't visit this site that often is members tend to hold  crap up as God  and God up as crap , it gets a bit much in the end ...     Here is proof of my theory Voyage Of The Acolyte  98 ? anybody who knows anything about prog knows this Steve Hackett album is probably better than anything Genesis ever released or up there with their best ??? 98 ? its some kind of joke I`m telling you !  The top hundred list is  Kmart prog  .. the type of prog you find in Kmart its really not indicative of the true nature of things and how real prog heads feel ....  Kansas were 80% full progressive rock in the 70's Kansas also got voted Best AOR song of all time with Carry on wayward son .. which makes Kansas  head and shoulders above most bands on this site. The diversity of Kansas and their spirit is really what prog is all about , they simply  refused to conform with the Kmart fads , Don Kirshner loved that about them  ... All Hail - Livgren , Walsh , Steinhardt , Ehart , Williams , Hope or be trapped in your small world of Kmart prog forever ! and my last snide  remark .. Kansas eats Camel for dinner how Camel is above Kansas is staggering !  theres not a single strength Camel has on Kansas in any area ... its just really weird , Something against American prog is all I can put it down to, which is really silly.   Oh look, the lesser spotted self righteous obnoxious tit, you don't see those very often anymore.

  this forum really does have FAR too many Genesis fans, definitely too many Camel fans, not enough trolls, and DEFINITELY not enough tits.

that said.. he is right...  Many here do have sh*t for tastes. That Hackett album wipes the floor with anything Genesis did, and doesn't that list have every single Genesis album before you hit one ELP album.

Makes one sad to be associated with this forum.  I remember mentioning this site at Nearfest once.. and being laughed at.   and that was BEFORE Camel beat ELP twice in popularity polls here

Gerinski wrote: Indeed the Top 100 merges the favourites of so many different people that it can't be representative of the favourite albums of anybody in particular. It's only normal that it includes many albums which I do not like and omits many of my favourites. Personally Leftoverture and Two For The Show (if live albums counted) are certainly in my Top 100.

the top 100 list really is sort of pointless. It definitely is a reflection more of popularity more than anything else. The more interesting lists are the ones that try to interject some objectivity into them.  It really serves more as conversation piece than anything else.  Entertainment more than education.  Any list that has a album released within the last year in the top 40 albums... really isn't worth much of anything OTHER than pure entertainment for the occasional person like the forum tit earlier than got worked up about it. Or even more mature questioning like Bob had here.  Anyone has half a brain (raising stick) and knows anything (starts downswing) about prog rock knows (makes contact with dead horse) that ELP created some of the most important, and enduring albums in prog rock.  You'd never know it based on the list.  Of course Kansas doesn't come close to that example, but they do share the common ground that those that love them.. LOVE THEM.. and those that dislike them.. LOATHE them.  Sort of hard an impression on a popularity list with that kind of polar divide.

micky wrote: the top 100 list really is sort of pointless. It definitely is a reflection more of popularity more than anything else. The more interesting lists are the ones that try to interject some objectivity into them.  It really serves more as conversation piece than anything else.  Entertainment more than education.  Any list that has a album released within the last year in the top 40 albums... really isn't worth much of anything OTHER than pure entertainment for the occasional person like the forum tit earlier than got worked up about it. Or even more mature questioning like Bob had here.  Anyone has half a brain (raising stick) and knows anything (starts downswing) about prog rock knows (makes contact with dead horse) that ELP created some of the most important, and enduring albums in prog rock.  You'd never know it based on the list.  Of course Kansas doesn't come close to that example, but they do share the common ground that those that love them.. LOVE THEM.. and those that dislike them.. LOATHE them.  Sort of hard an impression on a popularity list with that kind of polar divide.

After going through the top 100 albums listed here there are a handful of albums/bands that I would rate lower than Kansas' Left Overture but that always comes down to personal preference and subjectivity.

ClemofNazareth wrote: When I joined PA 'Leftoverture' and 'Point of Know Return' were both in the Top 100 and 'Song for America' was bubbling a bit under.   Sure, I'd like to see those three as well as 'Masque' and 'Somewhere to Elsewhere', and even the reconstructed first Proto-Kaw in the Top 100.  But ultimately that's up to the 50,000+ global membership to decide with their reviews and ratings, and aside from Zappa and Miles Davis most American artists tend to be somewhat discounted by large portions of our membership.

micky wrote: you even have people hating on Yes because of.. Jon Anderson.. hello.. WHO listens to Yes for Anderson. You do for Squire, Howe, and whichever all-world caliber keyboardist they have in teh band at that moment.

I feel that Leftoverture should be higher and have Point of Know Return towards the bottom. Both amazing albums.

The fact is, any rank couldn't be 100% fair. The same counts for this top 100 prog bands rank. Everyone has it's own tastes and this is average result from these many votes (we could argue about mathematical method of counting these ranks but that's all we can...).

IMO Kansas is fine (although I've always counted them more to proto-prog), but for me it isn't top 100 record band... For example Queen is mainly rock group (in 70's to be precise) and it isn't strange they are not too popular here on progboard. On the other side I'll always count their Queen II album (with definitely prog roots) higher than any other Kansas record. And this one isn't even in 250 rank albums. So what? The world turns around and I'll listen to this one despite of any poll. Because all these polls and ranks are subjective and couldn't be too overestimated.

On the other side - there are a lot of records in the rank 100 I'm definitely satisfied with. For some new prog listener it could be very good "manual" to step inside the progressive rock waters. And maybe this could be very good reason to have this rank here and let it live with it's own life... :-)

Oh well - I voted #5 here.