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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Today's albums versus the classics: reviewer bias?
    Posted: February 17 2015 at 13:54
Do you think that albums released in retrospect are reviewed differently than albums released during PA's lifespan? I can't help but feel the overexposure of 70s albums in the top 100 might have a little to do with nostalgia and not just their quality.

See Genesis as an example. I can't imagine an album like Nursery Cryme or The Lamb getting an overall of 4.42 and a 4.29 respectively in 2015.

This can go another way for newer works. Take Haken for example. Had we reviewed Aquarius and Visions in retrospect, I think Aquarius would get knocked down to a 3.75 and Visions bumped up to a 4.2. Very similar albums, which I've noticed some classic reviewers have knocked albums that are too similar to each other (like ITCOTKC and ITWOP, both of which I think are fantastic albums, but the latter never carried the same legacy as the former) but since Aquarius and Visions came out while the site existed, you're only seeing those differences from a contemporary viewpoint.

What do you think? Have you noticed any differences in how viewers look at classic albums versus contemporary ones? Makes me wonder how different the top album list would be if the internet and Progarchives existed in the late 60s.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 13:58
Reviewer bias? Yes. There are those that think that their favorites can do no wrong.
Once you become familiar with these particular reviewers you can take them with a grain of salt.

Edited by SteveG - February 17 2015 at 13:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 14:05
Yep. I've noticed the same. TBH I gave my stars to the Genesis albums very early on in my prog listening, and now, years after, the only album I'd grant five stars would be Foxtrot. There is definetly bias towards the classics, but whether that matters is another thing.

The most hilarious example is when one particular reviewer dismissed Opeth's Still Life only on the basis of death growls. It's precisely the same as the parents of those born in the late 40's and early 50's who dismissed bands such as Led Zeppelin etc because they were playing too loud and screaming.

Opeth's Still Life is pretty much the defining moment of Progressive Death Metal, and although it's already pretty high up on the list, it should be even higher in my opinion. Same could be said about a plethora of other bands and albums.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 14:27
My feeling is that those pillars of progressive rock music (Yes, Genesis, Floyd etc) will never be toppled and then you have that sneaky bunch of bands that never had great commercial success such as VDGG , Gentle Giant and Banco but who are adored by many a serious prog fan. These bands have so much praise lavished on them which appears to be almost in direct inverse proportion to the lack of general interest in them when they were actually around. So any relatively new band has to clamber over all that just to start with.
 
I suppose a question is there someone out there who gets biased slightly over the top praise for almost everything he does and could his name be Steven Wilson?
 
 
 


Edited by richardh - February 17 2015 at 14:28
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 14:38
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I suppose a question is there someone out there who gets biased slightly over the top praise for almost everything he does and could his name be Steven Wilson?


But he's able to count 500 million prog bands in his sleep, while tapping 9/8!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 14:45
Originally posted by paragraph7 paragraph7 wrote:

The most hilarious example is when one particular reviewer dismissed Opeth's Still Life only on the basis of death growls. It's precisely the same as the parents of those born in the late 40's and early 50's who dismissed bands such as Led Zeppelin etc because they were playing too loud and screaming.
 
I'm sorry, but I still think death growls are idiotic and definitely detract from the composition. My view hasn't changed from the first time I heard them till the last. Plain stupid and corny. Opeth is a much better band without them, as evidenced by their last two albums. Looks like they finally grew up.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 14:47
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

My feeling is that those pillars of progressive rock music (Yes, Genesis, Floyd etc) will never be toppled and then you have that sneaky bunch of bands that never had great commercial success such as VDGG , Gentle Giant and Banco but who are adored by many a serious prog fan. These bands have so much praise lavished on them which appears to be almost in direct inverse proportion to the lack of general interest in them when they were actually around. So any relatively new band has to clamber over all that just to start with.
 
I suppose a question is there someone out there who gets biased slightly over the top praise for almost everything he does and could his name be Steven Wilson?
 
 
 
Let's just say that I take his reviews with a grain of salt also. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 14:57
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by paragraph7 paragraph7 wrote:

The most hilarious example is when one particular reviewer dismissed Opeth's Still Life only on the basis of death growls. It's precisely the same as the parents of those born in the late 40's and early 50's who dismissed bands such as Led Zeppelin etc because they were playing too loud and screaming.
 
I'm sorry, but I still think death growls are idiotic and definitely detract from the composition. My view hasn't changed from the first time I heard them till the last. Plain stupid and corny. Opeth is a much better band without them, as evidenced by their last two albums. Looks like they finally grew up.


But they're really not Progessive Death Metal anymore without them, are they? What you are dismissing is a certain technique that's synonymous with the genre as a whole, not just Opeth in particular. I don't mind their newer albums (although I think they are paying way too much tribute to Mikael's idols rather than doing something of their own) but to say that they "detract from the composition" is like saying that the loudness of an amplified guitar detracts the sound when compared to an acoustic one. If we'd be objective here, we'd compare Opeth's death growls to other bands of the genre, and see that his growls have FAR more articulation and emotion than some other mediocre Death Metal band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 14:59
Originally posted by paragraph7 paragraph7 wrote:

Yep. I've noticed the same. TBH I gave my stars to the Genesis albums very early on in my prog listening, and now, years after, the only album I'd grant five stars would be Foxtrot. There is definetly bias towards the classics, but whether that matters is another thing.

The most hilarious example is when one particular reviewer dismissed Opeth's Still Life only on the basis of death growls. It's precisely the same as the parents of those born in the late 40's and early 50's who dismissed bands such as Led Zeppelin etc because they were playing too loud and screaming.

Opeth's Still Life is pretty much the defining moment of Progressive Death Metal, and although it's already pretty high up on the list, it should be even higher in my opinion. Same could be said about a plethora of other bands and albums.

I know what you're saying, but this place would be extremely dull if people weren't allowed to have an opinion on an album simply because they hadn't been exposed to the style of music beforehand. Some times it can be refreshing to have an outsider looking in. Oh and why is it not valid not to like growls? I mean, people write off Yes, Can and Van Damme Generator because of Jon Anderson, Damo Suzuki and Peter Hammill. They're an acquired taste. Hell, I have a problem with certain types of accents applied to the English language. Danish, German and Swedish really rub me the wrong way. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:13
^ You don't like Frank Bornemann's accent? That's an acquired taste too Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:16
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

^ You don't like Frank Bornemann's accent? That's an acquired taste too Tongue

Not a fan really no, but some times they can be extremely funny. 
I do like his voice though and would probably have loved it if he just sang in his native tongue.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:17
Originally posted by paragraph7 paragraph7 wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by paragraph7 paragraph7 wrote:

The most hilarious example is when one particular reviewer dismissed Opeth's Still Life only on the basis of death growls. It's precisely the same as the parents of those born in the late 40's and early 50's who dismissed bands such as Led Zeppelin etc because they were playing too loud and screaming.
 
I'm sorry, but I still think death growls are idiotic and definitely detract from the composition. My view hasn't changed from the first time I heard them till the last. Plain stupid and corny. Opeth is a much better band without them, as evidenced by their last two albums. Looks like they finally grew up.


But they're really not Progessive Death Metal anymore without them, are they? What you are dismissing is a certain technique that's synonymous with the genre as a whole, not just Opeth in particular. I don't mind their newer albums (although I think they are paying way too much tribute to Mikael's idols rather than doing something of their own) but to say that they "detract from the composition" is like saying that the loudness of an amplified guitar detracts the sound when compared to an acoustic one. If we'd be objective here, we'd compare Opeth's death growls to other bands of the genre, and see that his growls have FAR more articulation and emotion than some other mediocre Death Metal band.
I am not dismissing Opeth but the whole silly death growl milieu. It's as silly to me as if all the death metal bands decided to start singing like Daffy Duck and then hear you say, "Oh no, Opeth doesn't sing like Daffy Duck, they sing like Donald Duck -- HUGE DIFFERENCE!"
 
Ummm...no.


Edited by The Dark Elf - February 17 2015 at 15:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:20
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

I know what you're saying, but this place would be extremely dull if people weren't allowed to have an opinion on an album simply because they hadn't been exposed to the style of music beforehand. Some times it can be refreshing to have an outsider looking in. Oh and why is it not valid not to like growls? I mean, people write off Yes, Can and Van Damme Generator because of Jon Anderson, Damo Suzuki and Peter Hammill. They're an acquired taste. Hell, I have a problem with certain types of accents applied to the English language. Danish, German and Swedish really rub me the wrong way. 


While I agree with you, I always hope to read reviews with insight to the music outside personal preference, and when I actually notice that a reviewer is going all Genesis-fanboy on the stuff that he is reviewing, I lose interest. But you are right, it is valid not to like growls, Hammill, or Jon Anderson, and no-one is forcing me to read those biased reviews either. What I said, after all, was that I found the review "hilarious", which again, is only my opinion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:29
Originally posted by paragraph7 paragraph7 wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

I know what you're saying, but this place would be extremely dull if people weren't allowed to have an opinion on an album simply because they hadn't been exposed to the style of music beforehand. Some times it can be refreshing to have an outsider looking in. Oh and why is it not valid not to like growls? I mean, people write off Yes, Can and Van Damme Generator because of Jon Anderson, Damo Suzuki and Peter Hammill. They're an acquired taste. Hell, I have a problem with certain types of accents applied to the English language. Danish, German and Swedish really rub me the wrong way. 


While I agree with you, I always hope to read reviews with insight to the music outside personal preference, and when I actually notice that a reviewer is going all Genesis-fanboy on the stuff that he is reviewing, I lose interest. But you are right, it is valid not to like growls, Hammill, or Jon Anderson, and no-one is forcing me to read those biased reviews either. What I said, after all, was that I found the review "hilarious", which again, is only my opinion.

I know exactly what you mean. I always reference to the following review, but dammit I am such a sucker for it!LOL
This is one of my favourite reviews of one of my favourite artists on PA (Tangerine Dream and the album in question is Zeit), though getting completely slammed. Greenback certainly doesn't care for improvised space drones:

1 stars What a shame! The music consists in 2-3 humming refrigerators at the same time, plus a portative fan that turns back and forth to make the anyway inexistent rhythm, and finally a coming cluster of threatening killer bees!

There are tons of albums better than this one to describe the desolation once you go alone on Mars! The album is even not minimalist!

Rating: 0.5 star




Edited by Guldbamsen - February 17 2015 at 15:29
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:29
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Not a fan really no, but some times they can be extremely funny. 
I do like his voice though and would probably have loved it if he just sang in his native tongue.
I admit I laught many times when I listen to his singing. Tongue I wish he did that too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:33
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I am not dismissing Opeth but the whole silly death growl milieu. It's as silly to me as if all the death metal bands decided to start singing like Daffy Duck and then hear you say, "Oh no, Opeth doesn't sing like Daffy Duck, he sings like Donald Duck -- HUGE DIFFERENCE!"
 
Ummm...no.

Yeah, I had a feeling you were dismissing that particular technique and genre as a whole, that's basically what I was saying; it's the same as elderly people dismissing rock, classical enthusiasts dismissing anything that isn't classical and so on. That in a way connects with what the OP was posting about in the first place, that we are on a site where there is a bias towards a particular style of music (symphonic prog of the 70s) and my remark was meant to be just about that. I guess we need more death metal fanboys to come in and review some Genesis with remarks that Gabriel sounds like Mickey Mouse and give all albums 1 star Wink Just kidding.

I still accept your opinion though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:35
I love Traced in Air by Cynic. Their last album to feature throaty vox and I miss it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:38
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:


I know exactly what you mean. I always reference to the following review, but dammit I am such a sucker for it!LOL
This is one of my favourite reviews of one of my favourite artists on PA (Tangerine Dream and the album in question is Zeit), though getting completely slammed. Greenback certainly doesn't care for improvised space drones:

1 stars What a shame! The music consists in 2-3 humming refrigerators at the same time, plus a portative fan that turns back and forth to make the anyway inexistent rhythm, and finally a coming cluster of threatening killer bees!

There are tons of albums better than this one to describe the desolation once you go alone on Mars! The album is even not minimalist!

Rating: 0.5 star




Now I really have to listen that album. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:41
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Not a fan really no, but some times they can be extremely funny. 
I do like his voice though and would probably have loved it if he just sang in his native tongue.
I admit I laught many times when I listen to his singing. Tongue I wish he did that too.

He should've done something like this insteadBig smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:56
^ Trippy Cool
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