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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 05:29
Ermm reading the OP is informative to say the least, it didn't ask for examples of Neo Prog. Stern Smile Tongue


Avant/RIO ... Slapp Happy & Henry Cow - Riding Tigers
Crossover ... Moody Blues - The Story In Your Eyes
Canterbury ... Egg - Seven Is A Jolly Good Time
Eclectic ... Van der Graaf Generator - Man Erg
Electronic ... Tangerine Dream - Ricochet, Part One
Heavy Prog ... Babe Ruth - The Mexican
Jazz Rock ... Mahavishnu Orchestra - Thousand Island Park
Jazz Fusion ... pass
Krautrock ... Neu! - Negativeland
Neo-medieval/Baroque Prog ... has to be Gryphon - Gulland Rock 
Neoclasssical Prog ... The Enid - In The Region Of the Summer Stars (track)
Prog Folk ... Tim Buckley - Phantasmagoria In Two
Psychedelia ... Kaleidoscope - In The Room Of Percussion (not really, it's just one of my favourites Wink)
RPI ... Le Orme - Ritratto Di Un Mattino
Space/Atmospheric ... Hawkwind - The Psychedelic Warlords (Disappear in Smoke)
Symphonic ... Renaissance - Innocence
Zeuhl ... Magma - meh, no idea, pass
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 05:43
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

(...)

No, you cannot mention Genesis as neo-prog, whatever song you may mention.
Of course I can. No one time I read on this Forum that ATotT and W&W are neo prog albums, and I agree. Btw, what about Inside And Out? A perfect Neo song indeed.


Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

A lot of people (here on PA and elsewhere) consider Genesis' A Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering as the main inspiration for the original Neo Prog bands, so Svetonio does have a point. Regarding prog metal, obviously the subgenre as we know it now did not exist in the Seventies, but some songs by iconic metal bands might be considered as examples of proto-progressive metal. Case in point: Judas Priest's "Victim of Changes" and "Beyond the Realms of Death".


Saying that Trick and W&W inspired neo-prog is one thing, labeling these two albums as neo-prog is another.

I screwed things up with my progressive metal post which I edited (but it's here cause it got quoted), my mistake, I should have read the original post more carefully.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 06:09
Avant/RIO................: Henry Cow - Beautiful as the Moon - Terrible as an Army with Banners
Crossover................: Supertramp - Fool's Overture
Canterbury...............: Khan - Space Shanty
Eclectic.................: Gnidrolog - Lady Lake
Electronic...............: Klaus Schulze - Mental Door
Heavy Prog...............: Rush - Xanadu
Jazz Rock................:
Jazz Fusion..............:
Krautrock................:
Neo-medieval/Baroque Prog: Gentle Giant - Raconteur, Troubadour
Neoclasssical Prog.......:
Prog Folk................: Jethro Tull - Hunting Girl
Psychedelia..............: Pink Floyd - Interstellar Overdrive
RPI......................:
Space/Atmospheric........: Pink Floyd - Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun (Ummagumma or Pompeiï version)
Symphonic................: Genesis - Firth of Fifth
Zeuhl....................: Magma - Kobaïa


Edited by someone_else - March 17 2015 at 06:12
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 06:22
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

(...)

No, you cannot mention Genesis as neo-prog, whatever song you may mention.
Of course I can. No one time I read on this Forum that ATotT and W&W are neo prog albums, and I agree. Btw, what about Inside And Out? A perfect Neo song indeed.


Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

A lot of people (here on PA and elsewhere) consider Genesis' A Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering as the main inspiration for the original Neo Prog bands, so Svetonio does have a point. Regarding prog metal, obviously the subgenre as we know it now did not exist in the Seventies, but some songs by iconic metal bands might be considered as examples of proto-progressive metal. Case in point: Judas Priest's "Victim of Changes" and "Beyond the Realms of Death".


Saying that Trick and W&W inspired neo-prog is one thing, labeling these two albums as neo-prog is another.

I screwed things up with my progressive metal post which I edited (but it's here cause it got quoted), my mistake, I should have read the original post more carefully.

Actually, the prog community (whatever that means) has never reached a consensus about dilemma that neo prog is a genre which is exactly bounded by the time frame (eighties) or it is a style.
If Neo Prog style didn't start with Merillion's Script for a Jester's Tear the album (1983), then One for the Vine is a great example of Neo Prog song recorded in seventies.
In fact, BrufordFreak asks not for the champion bands of the PA genres, but for the songs that will best represent the genres at his radio show. So, for example, I could put on my list Genesis' The Knife  as heavy prog song  instead of Uriah Heep Salisbury and to not make a mistake at all; it's a same thing with One for the Vine as Neo Prog song as well.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 07:47
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:


Actually, the prog community (whatever that means) has never reached a consensus about dilemma that neo prog is a genre which is exactly bounded by the time frame (eighties) or it is a style.
If Neo Prog style didn't start with Merillion's Script for a Jester's Tear the album (1983), then One for the Vine is a great example of Neo Prog song recorded in seventies.
In fact, BrufordFreak asks not for the champion bands of the PA genres, but for the songs that will best represent the genres at his radio show. So, for example, I could put on my list Genesis' The Knife  as heavy prog song  instead of Uriah Heep Salisbury and to not make a mistake at all; it's a same thing with One for the Vine as Neo Prog song as well.


It sounds complicated, to me neo-prog started with Twelfth Night, Marillion and IQ. It makes sense, to make a distinction concerning the new wave of bands trying to play progressive rock, symphonic prog inspired, in the 80s.

As for bands belonging to god knows what genres, I've seen German band Jane being labeled as Krautrock. Is it a mistake? I wouldn't say that. Deep Purple is labeled as proto-prog, heavy prog, prog related, hard rock, heavy psych,  heavy metal. Which is it? LOL Or is it all of them? Confused And the one I dislike the most is seeing Black Sabbath labeled as doom metal or god forbid stoner.
And I could think of some more.










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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 08:22
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:


It sounds complicated, to me neo-prog started with Twelfth Night, Marillion and IQ. It makes sense, to make a distinction concerning the new wave of bands trying to play progressive rock, symphonic prog inspired, in the 80s.

As for bands belonging to god knows what genres, I've seen German band Jane being labeled as Krautrock. Is it a mistake? I wouldn't say that. Deep Purple is labeled as proto-prog, heavy prog, prog related, hard rock, heavy psych,  heavy metal. Which is it? LOL Or is it all of them? Confused And the one I dislike the most is seeing Black Sabbath labeled as doom metal or god forbid stoner.
And I could think of some more.
The solution is album-tagging and multi-tagging. This way we could document the various styles that a band covered in their lifetime and categorise their albums to more helpfully to anyone one interested in a particular sound. It must be emphasised that once you hear an album for yourself any prior categorisation of that album becomes essentially meaningless, it is merely a guide for those who haven't heard it. Categorising bands is an exercise in futility because bands have an annoying habit of deliberately defying convention.

None of the early Neo Prog bands thought they were creating a new subgenre of Progressive Rock music and I would be very surprised if any of them considered themselves or the albums they recorded to be neo anything at the time. They were young Prog bands continuing the established genre and the Neo Prog tag is something that was applied to them retrospectively. They certainly were not new-wave bands trying to play Progressive Rock - some of these bands, while not securing a recording contract until the early 80s, had their origins in the late 70s - simply listening to the early (demo & tape) recordings of Twelfth Night reveals no "new-wave" influence or stylings.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 09:10
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


None of the early Neo Prog bands thought they were creating a new subgenre of Progressive Rock music and I would be very surprised if any of them considered themselves or the albums they recorded to be neo anything at the time. They were young Prog bands continuing the established genre and the Neo Prog tag is something that was applied to them retrospectively. They certainly were not new-wave bands trying to play Progressive Rock - some of these bands, while not securing a recording contract until the early 80s, had their origins in the late 70s - simply listening to the early (demo & tape) recordings of Twelfth Night reveals no "new-wave" influence or stylings.


you nailed it Clap


Edited by Cristi - March 17 2015 at 09:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 13:48
Thanks, Dean! You honor me!
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Ermm reading the OP is informative to say the least, it didn't ask for examples of Neo Prog. Stern Smile Tongue (You noticed. . . ) I've got my own ideas about how to approach retro- and neo-prog.


Avant/RIO ... Slapp Happy & Henry Cow - Riding Tigers was thinking Henry Cow or The Mothers
Crossover ... Moody Blues - The Story In Your Eyes Nice one! Moodies, Family, Supertramp, even PG's first solo album all work for me
Canterbury ... Egg - Seven Is A Jolly Good Time Yes! I was leaning toward Egg, too, I don't know why. Kind of 'mature' but still fun Robert Wyatt
Eclectic ... Van der Graaf Generator - Man Erg Was listening to Pawn Hearts and Godbluff all night last night. Tough to nock out Starless, though. Depends if I decide time is a factor.
Electronic ... Tangerine Dream - Ricochet, Part One Again, not sure how much time I want to give to "the old stuff"--aside from introducing the sub-genre.
Heavy Prog ... Babe Ruth - The Mexican What?!?!? Another new one?!!!
Jazz Rock ... Mahavishnu Orchestra - Thousand Island Park Think I might go with one of Cobham's but MO is definitely in the conversation!
Jazz Fusion ... pass Is that Joe Pass? LOL Am leaning to Herbie or Joe Henderson Mwandishi era.
Krautrock ... Neu! - Negativeland Like the Neu! ideas. Can, too. Something shorter than Ash Ra or Amon D.
Neo-medieval/Baroque Prog ... has to be Gryphon - Gulland Rock Awesome choice! I was perusing Mushrumps for just such a choice!
Neoclasssical Prog ... The Enid - In The Region Of the Summer Stars (track) Cool! Had that one cued up, too!
Prog Folk ... Tim Buckley - Phantasmagoria In Two Not sure if Tim is my choice to represent. So many to choose from!
Psychedelia ... Kaleidoscope - In The Room Of Percussion (not really, it's just one of my favorites Wink) Never heard of them/it!!
RPI ... Le Orme - Ritratto Di Un Mattino Le Orme over Banco, PFM, Museo, Osanna. Tough call but I'm leaning toward Raff's suggestion: "Dopo..."
Space/Atmospheric ... Hawkwind - The Psychedelic Warlords (Disappear in Smoke) This may hurt, but, I haven't heard a Hawkwind song yet that engages me. More likely to go with Floyd or even TD/Klaus for this area.
Symphonic ... Renaissance - Innocence Really!? I can think of a lot of Renaissance songs, but "Innocence"? Why? (I'll have to give it a closer listen later.)
Zeuhl ... Magma - meh, no idea, pass No doubt in my mind: I've got "Hortz fur dëhn Stekëhn West" cued up for this one!
Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 14:00
Babe Ruth can be a bit of an acquired taste on account of the singer, a woman by the name of Janita (Jenny) Haan. If you, like me, love powerful, gutsy female vocalists, you will probably love "The Mexican". If you, on the other hand, prefer your lady singers on the angelic side, you might want to give this one a pass.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 14:24
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Thanks, Dean! You honor me!
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


Symphonic ... Renaissance - Innocence Really!? I can think of a lot of Renaissance songs, but "Innocence"? Why? (I'll have to give it a closer listen later.)

Avoiding the obvious choice of Kings and Queens really. Wink Nah, I just prefer Keith and Jane Relf's Renaissance over later incarnations of the band. But the album that Innocence comes from was the first full-blown symphonic album IMO, and the piano on that track is just sublime.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 16:51
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Babe Ruth can be a bit of an acquired taste on account of the singer, a woman by the name of Janita (Jenny) Haan. If you, like me, love powerful, gutsy female vocalists, you will probably love "The Mexican". If you, on the other hand, prefer your lady singers on the angelic side, you might want to give this one a pass.
 
Babe Ruth should pique the curiosity of many a listener. The third (eponymous) album is great, too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 16:52
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Regarding prog metal, obviously the subgenre as we know it now did not exist in the Seventies, but some songs by iconic metal bands might be considered as examples of proto-progressive metal. Case in point: Judas Priest's "Victim of Changes" and "Beyond the Realms of Death".
I would add "2112" by Rush and definitely "Stargazer" by Rainbow as sterling examples of templates for progressive metal.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 17:15
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Regarding prog metal, obviously the subgenre as we know it now did not exist in the Seventies, but some songs by iconic metal bands might be considered as examples of proto-progressive metal. Case in point: Judas Priest's "Victim of Changes" and "Beyond the Realms of Death".
I would add "2112" by Rush and definitely "Stargazer" by Rainbow as sterling examples of templates for progressive metal.


IndeedClap - though I would replace "2112" with the whole of A Farewell to Kings, which in my view is stronger and more cohesive in terms of composition.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 17:37
Stargazer was simply brilliant. Rising remains one of my favourite albums ever.

A tribute to RJD might well follow later.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 17:50
perhaps something from High Tide.

covers both bases... fundamental essential heavy prog... and proto progressive doom metal! LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 18:06
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:


Actually, the prog community (whatever that means) has never reached a consensus about dilemma that neo prog is a genre which is exactly bounded by the time frame (eighties) or it is a style.
If Neo Prog style didn't start with Merillion's Script for a Jester's Tear the album (1983), then One for the Vine is a great example of Neo Prog song recorded in seventies.
In fact, BrufordFreak asks not for the champion bands of the PA genres, but for the songs that will best represent the genres at his radio show. So, for example, I could put on my list Genesis' The Knife  as heavy prog song  instead of Uriah Heep Salisbury and to not make a mistake at all; it's a same thing with One for the Vine as Neo Prog song as well.


It sounds complicated, to me neo-prog started with Twelfth Night, Marillion and IQ. It makes sense, to make a distinction concerning the new wave of bands trying to play progressive rock, symphonic prog inspired, in the 80s.

As for bands belonging to god knows what genres, I've seen German band Jane being labeled as Krautrock. Is it a mistake? I wouldn't say that. Deep Purple is labeled as proto-prog, heavy prog, prog related, hard rock, heavy psych,  heavy metal. Which is it? LOL Or is it all of them? Confused And the one I dislike the most is seeing Black Sabbath labeled as doom metal or god forbid stoner.
And I could think of some more.
Well, back then, nobody cares so much about labeling and it was served mostly to records dealers and rock journalists. At the present day, the multiplied tags often make a bigger mess than it facilitates the whole thing. Before internet and multiplied tags, it was known that e.g. Black Sabbath is a heavy rock band and there were no other labeling.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 18:06
Nice list, else! Thanks!

Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

Avant/RIO................: Henry Cow - Beautiful as the Moon - Terrible as an Army with Banners Definitely a Cow song. Not sure which one. I'll try this.
Crossover................: Supertramp - Fool's Overture Awesome choice! A "definitely, maybe."
Canterbury...............: Khan - Space Shanty My favorite but not sure it's the most fully representative. This sub will be a tough one to choose one song for.
Eclectic.................: Gnidrolog - Lady Lake Another awesome choice that I'd overlooked. I'll put into the pile and see how it compares.
Electronic...............: Klaus Schulze - Mental Door Yes! Love this song! A definite possibility.
Heavy Prog...............: Rush - Xanadu Great song but I'm hoping for something from a few years earlier.
Jazz Rock................:
Jazz Fusion..............:
Krautrock................:
Neo-medieval/Baroque Prog: Gentle Giant - Raconteur, Troubadour Perfect! Definitely near the top of the list!
Neoclasssical Prog.......:
Prog Folk................: Jethro Tull - Hunting Girl Hmm. Gonna have to give this one a listen. Not on my radar: don't really know it.
Psychedelia..............: Pink Floyd - Interstellar Overdrive Yes! This may be a shoo-in.
RPI......................:
Space/Atmospheric........: Pink Floyd - Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun (Ummagumma or Pompeiï version) More like what I had in mind, too. It's on the list!
Symphonic................: Genesis - Firth of Fifth Hard to argue against this one; Can't really go wrong with it.
Zeuhl....................: Magma - Kobaïa Why this one? I like the more extreme dynamics of many other early Magma songs. I've never quite 'felt the love' for this album or Köhntarkösz.

Thanks so much for your time and efforts! You definitely gave me several to consider that I'd overlooked! Awesome!

Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 18:09
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Regarding prog metal, obviously the subgenre as we know it now did not exist in the Seventies, but some songs by iconic metal bands might be considered as examples of proto-progressive metal. Case in point: Judas Priest's "Victim of Changes" and "Beyond the Realms of Death".
I would add "2112" by Rush and definitely "Stargazer" by Rainbow as sterling examples of templates for progressive metal.


IndeedClap - though I would replace "2112" with the whole of A Farewell to Kings, which in my view is stronger and more cohesive in terms of composition.

Definitely a few mentions here that are more in line with my thinking. Before Rush 'took over' the sub-genre there were proto-Rush bands, nest-ce pas?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 18:13
those proto Rush bands were far more interesting IMO.  Rush is popular yeah yeah yeah we all get that.. we all love the group to various degrees.. but heavy prog started with DP in the late 60's.  It was around, even perfected well before Rush were known to anyone outside of their immediately family man...


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 19:07
For Prog Electronic, if time is an issue try these. Not sure I would say any of them exactly epitomize PE like any of the longer songs, but they are killer tracks.

Klaus Schulze - Frank Herbert

Tangerine Dream - 3A.M. At The Border Of The Marsh From Okefenokee

Kraftwerk -Trans Europa Express

Zanov - Machine Desperation

Jean Michel-Jarre - Oxygene Part One

Ose - L'Aube Jumelle

Harmonia - Watussi

Vangelis - Pulsar

Conrad Schnitzler - Black Nails

Igor Wakhevitch - Twilight And Call Of The Ascending Spirit


Gave about ten more songs than you asked for and much more of a varied sound than you asked for.


Edited by Sheavy - March 17 2015 at 19:12
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