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Rednight View Drop Down
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Points: 4807 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 15:28
It's the "March of the Emoticons" broad.
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Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 10:47
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I no longer write reviews because I don't enjoy writing them and I don't like making subjective critical assessments of other peoples' music - if I like an album then I like it, if I don't then I don't.


OK, if you don't enjoy writing reviews then the following is maybe a moot point but what's the difference between expressing a subjective opinion on someone's music and having an opinion on someone's music? The implication that there exists an alternative where you can objectively appraise a work of art is risibly flawed i.e. a review always reveals more about the reviewer than the reviewed. (You cannot separate the knower from the known etc) It's perfectly fine to discriminate against aesthetic phenomena you don't care for. Expressing a critical opinion doesn't necessarily undermine the motives of the artist or prejudice the potential listener from exploring the work of that artist. Write more reviews you saggy ash blonde hippy please.Big smile
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 09:45
Dean to be honest seriously now is the most direct truthful person on here, although he makes me laugh so much even when he is serious at times, he honestly is very nice, a good sincere/fair person really (again funny also). Anyway I love my grumpy too much! Approve  Hug
 
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 09:37
Originally posted by Komandant Shamal Komandant Shamal wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


The incident that caused this childish rift between Svetonio and myself was over the inclusion of a band.

Well, it's simply not true... I'v been reading recently a very interesting thread about the Concept instrumental albums, and you know what Mister Dean? i find this: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=99000&PN=2  
The incident that caused this "childish rift" between you and Mr. Svetonio Monopod was to occur when you said to him some quite bad things - only because he posted some albums covers pictures instead to write the titles of them...
Ah Pjer. I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve by trawling through the forum looking for my old posts. If you must insist on reopening old wounds then perhaps you can link back to the cause of the disagreement on Page one of the thread and not attempt some "out of context" link into the middle of the debate. 

Later on in that second page Mr Monopod linked to my post in the Band Suggestions thread that I referred to earlier - that was the cause of his upset with me, (and he also, like you, linked to the "offending" remark, not the debate that caused it).

Putting "childish rift" in irony-quotes is pointless - the rift is childish and I am permitted to call it that because that is what it has become. It may be ironic, but not in the way you mean.

The only people who can say what caused this childish rift is Svetonio and myself - not you or anyone else.  If you have some special insight into Svetonio's thinking and what upsets him then best declare that now.
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Kati View Drop Down
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 09:25
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

I'm sure they won't Komandant Shamal. Rules like this will only lead to crappy hurried reviews to get rid of the constraints (which does a disservice to the site as well as the album being reviewed) or to people simply not reviewing at all.
I agree. The idea is simply never going to work. Forcing people to write a review for an unknown band before they can write about bands they know and love is only going to result in bad reviews. This will never be good for the poor unknown band.
Returning to this for a moment. (I know, bad form quoting your own post, but I so dislike back-editing)

A better solution is to encourage people to stray from the conventional path and write reviews for artists they like that have no reviews ONCE they have practised the art of writing reviews. Surely we should be encouraging people to write better reviews first and then approach the more difficult subjects ONCE they are more comfortable with writing. Let them practise on Close To The Edge where their opinion makes little or no difference, let them read and learn from what others have written on the same subject and make the comparisons for themselves.

I cannot make claim to ever doing this my self of course because I am a dyed-in-the-wool hypocrite who never follows his own advice - My first three reviews here (and thus four of my paltry total of six) where deliberately chosen because they were albums I loved that didn't have reviews - none of them were "unknown" artists, but they were perhaps, over-looked albums. My most popular review (in terms of encouraging feedback from others) however, was for an album that has 1100 ratings and too many reviews to count and I only wrote that because I felt I had something different to say about it and as I was the leader of the Xover team at the time picking a very popular Xover seemed to be the logical thing to do. Did any of my reviews make a difference? I doubt it. I no longer write reviews because I don't enjoy writing them and I don't like making subjective critical assessments of other peoples' music - if I like an album then I like it, if I don't then I don't.
Good idea, please help me to stop writing dreadful long reviews whereby even I halfway am bored or fall asleep Big smile
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 09:21
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

I'm sure they won't Komandant Shamal. Rules like this will only lead to crappy hurried reviews to get rid of the constraints (which does a disservice to the site as well as the album being reviewed) or to people simply not reviewing at all.
I agree. The idea is simply never going to work. Forcing people to write a review for an unknown band before they can write about bands they know and love is only going to result in bad reviews. This will never be good for the poor unknown band.
Returning to this for a moment. (I know, bad form quoting your own post, but I so dislike back-editing)

A better solution is to encourage people to stray from the conventional path and write reviews for artists they like that have no reviews ONCE they have practised the art of writing reviews. Surely we should be encouraging people to write better reviews first and then approach the more difficult subjects ONCE they are more comfortable with writing. Let them practise on Close To The Edge where their opinion makes little or no difference, let them read and learn from what others have written on the same subject and make the comparisons for themselves.

I cannot make claim to ever doing this my self of course because I am a dyed-in-the-wool hypocrite who never follows his own advice - My first three reviews here (and thus four of my paltry total of six) where deliberately chosen because they were albums I loved that didn't have reviews - none of them were "unknown" artists, but they were perhaps, over-looked albums. My most popular review (in terms of encouraging feedback from others) however, was for an album that has 1100 ratings and too many reviews to count and I only wrote that because I felt I had something different to say about it and as I was the leader of the Xover team at the time picking a very popular Xover seemed to be the logical thing to do. Did any of my reviews make a difference? I doubt it. I no longer write reviews because I don't enjoy writing them and I don't like making subjective critical assessments of other peoples' music - if I like an album then I like it, if I don't then I don't.
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 09:12
Originally posted by Komandant Shamal Komandant Shamal wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


The incident that caused this childish rift between Svetonio and myself was over the inclusion of a band.

Well, it's simply not true... I'v been reading recently a very interesting thread about the Concept instrumental albums, and you know what Mister Dean? i find this: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=99000&PN=2  
The incident that caused this "childish rift" between you and Mr. Svetonio Monopod was to occur when you said to him some quite bad things - only because he posted some albums covers pictures instead to write the titles of them...
Komandant Shamal, hello and nice to meet you Smile
Unfortunately what you see on these forum posts have nothing to do with bands being accepted or not on PA, this access is only available to collaborators, they have the vote, thus to be fair Dean as a collab is being himself and clearly honest here. I like both of them although Dean above anyone is my fav grumpy Big smile big hug to you xxx  Hug
P.S. I like Svetonio too very much xxx


Edited by Kati - April 24 2015 at 09:22
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 08:58
I see simple logic still is the enemy hereConfused 
If that is what you get out of those discussions between Dean and Svetty, then I'm afraid you've been sucking on the wrong pipe.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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Points: 954 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 08:55
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


The incident that caused this childish rift between Svetonio and myself was over the inclusion of a band.

Well, it's simply not true... I'v been reading recently a very interesting thread about the Concept instrumental albums, and you know what Mister Dean? i find this: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=99000&PN=2  
The incident that caused this "childish rift" between you and Mr. Svetonio Monopod was to occur when you said to him some quite bad things - only because he posted some albums covers pictures instead to write the titles of them...
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 08:54
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Dean you are real and very interesting too, infact I kept insisting you to like me really because I like you so much lol LOL this is a fact, also as for your no nonsense attitude to certain topics makes me laugh so much, things you say are so funny!  Amusing funny to me really LOLBig smile big hug Hug 
LOL I  like you too, and you make me smile quite a lot, even if you insist on being blonde Tongue 

... being a naturally blue-eyed, fair-haired person myself not withstanding: Sadly my current shade of blonde comes from a bottle as my hair turned white a long time ago now much to my chagrin, (the trials of being the father of a daughter I fear). Before that it has been many shades from black to brunette to red and even pink! (alas but never blue - the dye would not take for some reason).  Wink
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Points: 13239 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 08:28
And before I go out in the sun (tomorrow it rains again ...) I am going to shamelessly promote a new, young individual (or one person band, whatever you want to call it). The album's been around for 4 months now, and no one bothered to review it on PA (well I did, but only posted it yesterday), even though all other sites and magazines have by now. 
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I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 08:28
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

I'm sure they won't Komandant Shamal. Rules like this will only lead to crappy hurried reviews to get rid of the constraints (which does a disservice to the site as well as the album being reviewed) or to people simply not reviewing at all.
I agree. The idea is simply never going to work. Forcing people to write a review for an unknown band before they can write about bands they know and love is only going to result in bad reviews. This will never be good for the poor unknown band.
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Kati View Drop Down
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 08:26
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Alas, many of the disagreements on the interwebs are the result of silly misunderstandings caused by people reading posts too quickly and reacting to what they think they read and not what was actually written. I am not immune from this, I too have been known to jump to the wrong conclusion over what I thought the other person said because I miss-read what they wrote. So, after 20 years of arguing on the internet, I try not to make snap knee-jerk replies and try to avoid attacking the person themselves; but again, I'm not immune - when frustrated by snippy posts I will give snippy replies, I'm not a machine, I have feelings and can be hurt as easily as anyone else. 

In one of my first ever BBS forum posts back in 1994 I typed "Br*t Pop" instead of "Brit Pop" because I thought it amusing to infer that it could mean Brit and Brat ... someone, un-offended by my cheap joke about Brit Pop, took exception to my improper use of the asterisk (*) and launched into a puerile attack on me personally and made what I can only assume he thought were clever remarks about Asterix being a Gaul not a Goth. A harsh lesson quickly learnt - if I behaved like a dick then I deserved to be called a dick but that doesn't grant anyone the right to be more of a dick in return. As abrasive as I am, I vowed never to become like that guy, so aside from some immature name-calling I've never made public personal attacks on anyone here, including Mr Svetonio Monopod. 

My first step towards that was the dumping of an anonymous screen-name to hide behind. The screen-name that Svetonio is so adverse to quoting in any post now is my real name. Similarly I use people's real names in any post I make (if I know it), I never call you "Kati" - it's always "Sonia", "Lazland" is "Steve" never "Laz", "Pedro" is never "Moshy" etc. etc. This is to remind me that the person behind the anonymous screen-name is a real person, just like me. They have feelings and emotions just like me, they get angry just me and they can get hurt, again, just like me. 

My second is to never post in haste or in anger.  Write-out the angry post by all means - it's very cathartic to vent your spleen - to see those angry words on a page -  but delete them, never post them.

When I write long-winded posts in response to something it is because I have taken the time to carefully read their post and consider every point they have made. If I do not understand the point then I ask for clarification and further explanation; conversely if I think the person has made an error then I will point that out to them and I'l try to do that without causing offence. Unfortunately some people are easily offended, they also have a habit of taking quotes out of context and deliberately miss-representing the opinion of others. I am never offended when people argue against me - that's healthy and acceptable. I do, however, take exception when people attack me instead of the points I am making, but my response is to either acknowledge the punch and continue without lowering myself to their level, or ignore it and walk away. I will not fight and squabble with people on the internet when they make it personal. Strong and heated discussion is not fighting, it is the expression of differing and conflicting opinion but it is not fighting, nor is it a reflection of animosity or spite. Personal attacks are.

I'll never go around hugging people because I'm British and we don't go in for that kind of thing, but I'll not kick them in the nether regions either. LOL

Dean you are real and very interesting too, infact I kept insisting you to like me really because I like you so much lol LOL this is a fact, also as for your no nonsense attitude to certain topics makes me laugh so much, things you say are so funny!  Amusing funny to me really LOLBig smile big hug Hug 
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Points: 13239 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 08:24
I'm sure they won't Komandant Shamal. Rules like this will only lead to crappy hurried reviews to get rid of the constraints (which does a disservice to the site as well as the album being reviewed) or to people simply not reviewing at all.
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I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
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Points: 954 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 08:21
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:


As for the reviews (as this is not only an archives site but also a reviews site), everyone is free to write a review on this website, and it is a great thing. However, in favor of trying to make that promotion of young bands bigger, each one's first review at PA, in my opinion, ought to be about a new band's debut album ( reviewer can chose any of them) that is with zero reviews, and then to write 500th review of Close to the Edge.
On that way, the new bands will get more reviews, and also at the site will be less albums without any review. Of course, this can not change the things regarding the site's promotion of new prog bands "absolutely" better, but it certainly can help imho.
It's a great idea, Svetonio Clap
Indeed there are so much of gorgeous debuts without a review and on the other side there are plenty of albums with hundreds of reviews. It's evidently that the newbies-reviewers are hurry to review mainly these famous albums with already a huge number of reviews. So i hope that the PA admins will take your proposal to serious consideration.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 08:04
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Alas, many of the disagreements on the interwebs are the result of silly misunderstandings caused by people reading posts too quickly and reacting to what they think they read and not what was actually written. I am not immune from this, I too have been known to jump to the wrong conclusion over what I thought the other person said because I miss-read what they wrote. So, after 20 years of arguing on the internet, I try not to make snap knee-jerk replies and try to avoid attacking the person themselves; but again, I'm not immune - when frustrated by snippy posts I will give snippy replies, I'm not a machine, I have feelings and can be hurt as easily as anyone else. 

In one of my first ever BBS forum posts back in 1994 I typed "Br*t Pop" instead of "Brit Pop" because I thought it amusing to infer that it could mean Brit and Brat ... someone, un-offended by my cheap joke about Brit Pop, took exception to my improper use of the asterisk (*) and launched into a puerile attack on me personally and made what I can only assume he thought were clever remarks about Asterix being a Gaul not a Goth. A harsh lesson quickly learnt - if I behaved like a dick then I deserved to be called a dick but that doesn't grant anyone the right to be more of a dick in return. As abrasive as I am, I vowed never to become like that guy, so aside from some immature name-calling I've never made public personal attacks on anyone here, including Mr Svetonio Monopod. 

My first step towards that was the dumping of an anonymous screen-name to hide behind. The screen-name that Svetonio is so adverse to quoting in any post now is my real name. Similarly I use people's real names in any post I make (if I know it), I never call you "Kati" - it's always "Sonia", "Lazland" is "Steve" never "Laz", "Pedro" is never "Moshy" etc. etc. This is to remind me that the person behind the anonymous screen-name is a real person, just like me. They have feelings and emotions just like me, they get angry just me and they can get hurt, again, just like me. 

My second is to never post in haste or in anger.  Write-out the angry post by all means - it's very cathartic to vent your spleen - to see those angry words on a page -  but delete them, never post them.

When I write long-winded posts in response to something it is because I have taken the time to carefully read their post and consider every point they have made. If I do not understand the point then I ask for clarification and further explanation; conversely if I think the person has made an error then I will point that out to them and I'l try to do that without causing offence. Unfortunately some people are easily offended, they also have a habit of taking quotes out of context and deliberately miss-representing the opinion of others. I am never offended when people argue against me - that's healthy and acceptable. I do, however, take exception when people attack me instead of the points I am making, but my response is to either acknowledge the punch and continue without lowering myself to their level, or ignore it and walk away. I will not fight and squabble with people on the internet when they make it personal. Strong and heated discussion is not fighting, it is the expression of differing and conflicting opinion but it is not fighting, nor is it a reflection of animosity or spite. Personal attacks are.

I'll never go around hugging people because I'm British and we don't go in for that kind of thing, but I'll not kick them in the nether regions either. LOL



Edited by Dean - April 24 2015 at 08:10
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Points: 13239 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 08:02
That was my point exactly...and miamiscot's as well ;-)
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 08:00
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

Green Day? Hmmm... glad I know what analogies are, because that would be a disaster, LOL


Green Day are Punk Rock, even the band describes themselves as such Stern Smile
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Points: 13239 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 07:57
Green Day? Hmmm... glad I know what analogies are, because that would be a disaster, LOL
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I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
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Points: 3433 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2015 at 07:00
Prog today is where Punk was in 1981 - more bands than fans. We played to crowds of 10-15 people sometimes, all of whom were in bands themselves. Keep the faith, proggers. Maybe our Green Day is right around the corner.
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