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It will however never have the same impact on the music world as say Close to the Edge had
Honestly I see no reason for thinking this way. Most of the modern prog is quite far from what Yes or Genesis were about, bands like Porcupine Tree, The Mars Volta, Anathema etc are more based on alternative rock than on classic prog. Speaking more widely, we call a lot of bands 'prog' not because their music is directly rooted in Yes legacy, but because it changes the rock basis in similar manner with classic prog bands.
Moreover, prog always needs to fuse genres. When a new genre appears, it becomes involved in prog world quite soon. Thus, any modern or future prog act, based on modern or future genres, easily can maintain cult status for decades and infulence a broad list of artists.
That's not what I meant. Back in the 70s prog was in and hot and there was a much larger fan base, whereas we today have trouble finding fans enough to go around. There are just too many acts to chose from
I was not referring to the actual music or the possibility of something being produced with just as much punch and wow factor as the old classics - no, merely commenting on the fact that we, as progheads or whatever you wish to call it, today are a rather small niche audience.
For an album to rival say Close to the Edge it would not only need to be genuinely progressive (wow I've never heard anything like that before-kinda progressive), it additionally needs the support and will of the fans to listen to something that is completely new....just like most young prog fans did oh so long ago. It's about open-mindedness towards new music, and I honestly don't see that in today's audience - not even on here (although there are some). It's all about mentality and approach for musicians and fans alike.....that and then like I've mentioned countless of times before: we need a brand new 'the 60s' for that to ever happen.
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Posted: May 01 2015 at 08:19
^I see your point now. The lack of open-mindedness is a common problem anywhere.
There is a lot of truly original music since 80s and until now but it's mostly underground and holds a small fanbase. But still I hope that those original but little-popular artists will gain at least some cult following
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Posted: May 01 2015 at 08:29
Guldbamsen wrote:
ole-the-first wrote:
Guldbamsen wrote:
It will however never have the same impact on the music world as say Close to the Edge had
Honestly I see no reason for thinking this way. Most of the modern prog is quite far from what Yes or Genesis were about, bands like Porcupine Tree, The Mars Volta, Anathema etc are more based on alternative rock than on classic prog. Speaking more widely, we call a lot of bands 'prog' not because their music is directly rooted in Yes legacy, but because it changes the rock basis in similar manner with classic prog bands.
Moreover, prog always needs to fuse genres. When a new genre appears, it becomes involved in prog world quite soon. Thus, any modern or future prog act, based on modern or future genres, easily can maintain cult status for decades and infulence a broad list of artists.
(...) I've mentioned countless of times before: we need a brand new 'the 60s' for that to ever happen.
It was so clever, Guldbamsen! And, what you need to proclaim "new sixties"? Is it the street riots as it was in the sixties?
Is it Cold War and the fear of WW3 maybe?
How you will recognize that "new sixties" when it comes, I'm just curious?
^I believe he was speaking of music revolution rather than political cataclysms.
Yes but also about everything else. Simply comparing similar looking crises is just lazy imo.....and you can't really compare them either. Nothing is new anymore in 2015. We've more or less seen it all. Comparing that to the sixties is plain wrong. The civil rights movement with Martin Luther King was unprecedented. People had never ever experienced anything like it - just like the Vietnam war. Suddenly you could see people getting slaughtered on your TV whilst eating supper -in colour no less. That was also a first. Hell the Americans even went to the moon. There is no way of replicating that almost worldwide sense of adventure in today's world. Oh and what about the JFK murder - or the first ever nuclear crises?
I could go on, but I figure you get the gist of what I'm saying
Edited by Guldbamsen - May 01 2015 at 08:56
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Posted: May 01 2015 at 09:14
ole-the-first wrote:
^I believe he was speaking of music revolution rather than political cataclysms.
That music revolution you mentioned was just one of the products of general atmosphere of the sixties when the Cold War and the fear of WW3 was dominant. However, I doubt that he has a clear image about what he was speaking about when he mentioned the "new sixties". I think that he just said "we need a "new sixties" and, self-satisfied, he's thinking that he said something great. Actually, the sixties will never repeat in a form that will be similar enough to the guys as Guldbamsen as well that he might say "here come new sixties".
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Posted: May 01 2015 at 09:15
Guldbamsen wrote:
That's not what I meant. Back in the 70s prog was in and hot and there was a much larger fan base, whereas we today have trouble finding fans enough to go around. There are just too many acts to chose from
I was not referring to the actual music or the possibility of something being produced with just as much punch and wow factor as the old classics - no, merely commenting on the fact that we, as progheads or whatever you wish to call it, today are a rather small niche audience.
For an album to rival say Close to the Edge it would not only need to be genuinely progressive (wow I've never heard anything like that before-kinda progressive), it additionally needs the support and will of the fans to listen to something that is completely new....just like most young prog fans did oh so long ago. It's about open-mindedness towards new music, and I honestly don't see that in today's audience - not even on here (although there are some). It's all about mentality and approach for musicians and fans alike.....that and then like I've mentioned countless of times before: we need a brand new 'the 60s' for that to ever happen.
Spot on what I was thinking....For me it's a matter of volume of listeners today as compared to then and who actually listens to prog today. Back in the CTTE days, generic rock fans listened to Yes, the fanbase was gigantic compared to today's prog rock fanbase. We are a very very small niche group and the music is so unheard of outside our little world I don't think it would ever reach the stratosphere of CTTE, TAAB or SEBTP...meaning across many genres of music or music polls.
Let's take for example the IQ album mentioned, which I too believe it is brilliant and worthy of that long standing high poll position. Outside our world it has no meaning at all and would never cross into the generic rock world like the grand fathers of prog albums do.
Also our music takes time to appreciate, you truly have to sit and listen to understand the music, lyrics the vibe of what an IQ and others are trying to convey....Folks this is not background music, so let's face it today's music environment is about quick, easy listen, no fussing over long music passages, noodling or suites heck not even concept albums...simply the public has no time for this kind of music. YouTube, Spotify and streaming, listening to individual tracks is what most people do now, buying an album and sitting down and soaking it all in seems a thing of the past...unfortunately.
Also with so many artists releasing music monthly, new stuff all the time I don't see how any one album could be so popular to dethrone one of the top 5 prog rock albums, even on this site. I could see SW The Raven being in the top 10 after say the next 10-15 yrs with volume rating..but it seems to me the top 5 we have now will always be there.
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Posted: May 01 2015 at 09:20
Catcher10 wrote:
Guldbamsen wrote:
...
For an album to rival say Close to the Edge it would not only need to be genuinely progressive (wow I've never heard anything like that before-kinda progressive), it additionally needs the support and will of the fans to listen to something that is completely new....just like most young prog fans did oh so long ago. It's about open-mindedness towards new music, and I honestly don't see that in today's audience - not even on here (although there are some). It's all about mentality and approach for musicians and fans alike.....that and then like I've mentioned countless of times before: we need a brand new 'the 60s' for that to ever happen.
Spot on what I was thinking....For me it's a matter of volume of listeners today as compared to then and who actually listens to prog today. Back in the CTTE days, generic rock fans listened to Yes, the fanbase was gigantic compared to today's prog rock fanbase. We are a very very small niche group and the music is so unheard of outside our little world I don't think it would ever reach the stratosphere of CTTE, TAAB or SEBTP...meaning across many genres of music or music polls.
...
Pretty much agreed.
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Posted: May 01 2015 at 09:27
Each era will produce albums that are regarded by that generation as being classic albums, but whether those same albums will achieve universal acclaim across the generations or at some unspecified time in the future is another matter. That requires something to be exceptional on practically every conceivable level - just being a good album is simply not enough, just as being popular or selling vast quantities is also not enough.
Classic albums are never slow-burners and they seldom, if ever took, time to appreciate. They were instantly recognisable as being Classic from the moment they were released even when it took the general public a while to latch onto that.
[So, no IQ The Road Of Bones is not such an album - if it achieves comparable status with Script for a Jester's Tear or Misplaced Childhood (which it won't) that still will not make it a classic album]
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Posted: May 01 2015 at 10:02
justin4950834-2 wrote:
Do you think there will ever be a prog album released in the future that will break new ground, be very highly rated, be considered a classic, appear in the top ranks along with close to the edge, foxtrot, thick as a brick, dark side of the moon ect. I'm not talking about just really good modern prog album theres many of those, I'm talking about like if you look at every top prog album list out there, this album would be in the top ten.
In short, will there ever be another Close to the Edge.
For example,
Metropolis Part 2: Scenes from a Memory is already and without a doubt a classic album of Prog in the rank of the major albums from the seventies, including CttE. One thing will never happen again for sure; in 70s, (almost) all of rock fans were buying everything what comes new to a local record store in the form of rock, whatever it is; actually, at that time, belonging to some particular sub-genre of Rock was waaaaay less important than now, when every sub-genre is a "ghetto" per se. Thus, if one imagines that this ancient "I buy everything" 'ideology' will happen again, he's wrong. Indeed, that legend of "huge prog fans base in 70s" comes from the fact that rock fans were buy everything. A real prog fan base never was that big. And so many "prog fans" who happily accepted that bullsh*t punk / post-punk music is the best possible proove of that.However, our beloved genre will always give to us the classic albums as already mentioned Dream Theater's masterpiece from 90s, actually released in the genre (progressive metal) that did not exist in seventies nor the prog fans at that time could have even imagine that the genre as progressive metal will appear to them one day.
[So, no IQ The Road Of Bones is not such an album - if it achieves comparable status with Script for a Jester's Tear or Misplaced Childhood (which it won't) that still will not make it a classic album]
I see it ranked much higher then those albums on multiple lists, including ours.
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Posted: May 01 2015 at 10:17
Svetonio wrote:
For example,
Metropolis Part 2: Scenes from a Memory is already and without a doubt a classic album of Prog in the rank of the major albums from the seventies, including CttE.
No it doesn't. It's a good album and some will say it is even a great album but it is only a classic album of its genre, along with Operation Mindcrime and perhaps a couple of other Prog Metal albums. But rank alongside the major albums of any other genre or generation it most certainly does not.
Svetonio wrote:
One thing will never happen again for sure; in 70s, (almost) all of rock fans were buying everything what comes new to a local record store in the form of rock, whatever it is; actually, at that time, belonging to some particular sub-genre of Rock was waaaaay less important than now, when every sub-genre is a "ghetto" per se.
That did not happen even on a micro-scale let alone the macro-scale you are claiming.
If this was even remotely the case then every 70s rock band would have had high-grossing albums and that it blatantly and demonstrably untrue.
How anyone can make-up nonsense like this beggar's belief.
Svetonio wrote:
Thus, if one imagines that this ancient "I buy everything" 'ideology' will happen again, he's wrong.
Just as you are it seems.
Svetonio wrote:
However, our beloved genre will always give to us the classic albums as already mentioned Dream Theater's masterpiece from 90s, actually released in the genre (progressive metal) that did not exist in seventies nor the prog fans at that time could have even imagine that the genre as progressive metal will appear to them one day.
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Posted: May 01 2015 at 10:19
Pastmaster wrote:
Dean wrote:
[So, no IQ The Road Of Bones is not such an album - if it achieves comparable status with Script for a Jester's Tear or Misplaced Childhood (which it won't) that still will not make it a classic album]
I see it ranked much higher then those albums on multiple lists, including ours.
Chart ranking (especially for a recently released album) does not make it a classic album.
[So, no IQ The Road Of Bones is not such an album - if it achieves comparable status with Script for a Jester's Tear or Misplaced Childhood (which it won't) that still will not make it a classic album]
I see it ranked much higher then those albums on multiple lists, including ours.
Chart ranking (especially for a recently released album) does not make it a classic album.
Are you saying that an album can't become a classic unless it has a huge influence on bands to come? That makes sense to me.
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Posted: May 01 2015 at 10:36
Pastmaster wrote:
Dean wrote:
Pastmaster wrote:
Dean wrote:
[So, no IQ The Road Of Bones is not such an album - if it achieves comparable status with Script for a Jester's Tear or Misplaced Childhood (which it won't) that still will not make it a classic album]
I see it ranked much higher then those albums on multiple lists, including ours.
Chart ranking (especially for a recently released album) does not make it a classic album.
Are you saying that an album can't become a classic unless it has a huge influence on bands to come? That makes sense to me.
Partly. There are many factors that go towards an album being called a Classic and that could be one of them.
However, the current chart-ranking of any recently released album is artificially high because the ratings have not normalised after the initial surge of positive reviews.
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Posted: May 01 2015 at 10:43
Well for influence to take hold it may be many, many years before future musicians say "The Raven or Road of Bones was a huge influence on my music....". If influence is an attribute to becoming a classic album, then I think these albums will miss that mark. Again, only because I don't think artists in the future will look upon The Raven or RoB like CTTE or SEBtP are looked upon now.
I guess I just don't see that happening......As far as polls go, who knows. Will be cool to see what the PA Top 10 looks like in 10-20 yrs, assuming PA is still around.
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Posted: May 01 2015 at 10:47
In agreement with a few previous posters: to these ears, Dimsionaut by Sound Of Contact and English Electric Full Power by Big Big Train may become classics, they are both outstanding albums. EEFP has a rating on this site of 4.88 from 94 reviews, which is quite staggering. I guess as a Boxset/compilation of sorts, it does not get included in studio album lists, but to me it is a studio album (because I didn't get the separate albums...)
Many seem to think that Hand.Cannot.Erase. is also something quite special.
Radiohead's OK Computer is often mentioned as a prog album. I wouldn't call them a prog band, but I might see the argument for that album and maybe Kid A being prog. It's not prog like we're used to, but obviously Radiohead is one of the most popular and revered bands since the 90s and those albums top the charts of best albums everywhere. They sound like Can and Pink Floyd so why not. Again, we can't be expecting the exact same kind of sound that will be labeled as prog, it has to be something relatively new.
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ole-the-first wrote:
