What made the 70's prog so unique? |
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Kati
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 10 2010 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
Posted: May 17 2015 at 05:36 | |||||||
sensual paintings are too much for our prog community nowadays meanwhile the pop artists who sell cd's to 11 to 14 year old teenagers are selling their naked sexuality as a brand and image i.e. Miley Cyrus MTV video Miley Cyrus - Wrecking Ball https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My2FRPA3Gf8 Prog peeps are becoming conservative poops really, shame on all, even disregarding previous prog album covers.Some people suck out the fun and free fab things in life, this is a shame!
Edited by Kati - May 17 2015 at 05:43 |
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
Posted: May 17 2015 at 05:43 | |||||||
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 12 2008 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 5898 |
Posted: May 17 2015 at 05:53 | |||||||
Somewhat off-topic: Am I the only one who thinks Miley Cyrus' new image, at least as presented in Wrecking Ball, kinda resembles a pop version of 1980s hardcore punk group The Plasmatics' late frontwoman Wendy O. Williams?
(not in astronomical range of being safe for work) |
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Windhawk
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 28 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 11400 |
Posted: May 17 2015 at 07:17 | |||||||
Ah, Wendy. She might actually have been an inspiration for a band that took that approach to the extreme. Presumably at least someone frequenting this forum have come across Rockbitch at some point, and their (in)famous Golden Condom Award. |
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Websites I work with:
http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 12 2008 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 5898 |
Posted: May 17 2015 at 07:40 | |||||||
Kesha is a fan of The Residents so it's probably not that far-fetched...
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12608 |
Posted: May 17 2015 at 22:06 | |||||||
Is that Corvus Stone? I thought I saw you mentioned in the credits |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: May 18 2015 at 03:50 | |||||||
I don't think it is so much about becoming conservative as about being liberal because the issue is not about sensuality or titivation but of exploitation and objectification. I get where you are coming from with the fact that the figure on the album cover is a fictional character so that cannot be exploitive of the lady in question (though arguing that it does not objectify women is perhaps harder to argue). To me censoring non-photographic figurative art is ludicrous but that does not mean the artist is automatically exempt from being censured for creating the art work in the first place. A harsh view perhaps, but freedom of expression comes at a price and that is the freedom to criticise. Ms Cyrus has not escaped criticism from liberals for exploiting her own body and from conservatives for being pornographic, even though much of it in the tabloid press and social media seems hypocritical rather than just critical, [they are exploiting Ms Cyrus's image to sell their message]. Whether it is conservative censoring or liberal censuring really depends on where you draw the line and on which side of it you then choose to stand. At what point does the use of a sensual image to convey a narrative become morally offensive/embarrassing and at what point is it the exploitive objectification of sex to sell a product? From my centrist (liberal) view both views seem to be equally silly and equally as repressed and repressive; both reflect a disconnect from physical reality and a denial of what we are. We cannot and should not deny our own sexuality or what we find to be sensual or arousing. |
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What?
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defectinggrey
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 14 2015 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 104 |
Posted: May 18 2015 at 07:16 | |||||||
I grew up with Mersey Beat and RnB. Then I discovered three cliches, sex and drugs and rock and roll. Very successful with two of those but not so good with the third (ask my wife of nearly 40 years!).
The main point however is that myself and my friends enjoyed discovering all sorts of music and didn't bother too much about labels as long as it was rock. Early bands we saw were Pretty Things, Nice, Hawkwind, Fusion Orchestra, Bowie, Egg, Stray, Free, Mott, Caravan, Yes, Audience, Gong, Gnidrolog, Bram Stoker, Little Free Rock, Barclay James Harvest, Groundhogs, Savoy Brown, Babe Ruth. All in all a very diverse range and then there were the American Bands which you could obtain on record. At the time we just liked getting stoned and listening to music. It didn't have to be Prog or Heavy or Blues it just had to be good! |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
Posted: May 18 2015 at 07:21 | |||||||
Pretty much my philosophy as well, although I've learned to use the boxes in order to better communicate with folks over the interwebs. It's still down to the feel of the thing. If it's got some fire and passion, then I don't care whether it's prog, punk, disco, jazz, pop or avantguarde polka. |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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Altairius
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 14 2014 Status: Offline Points: 187 |
Posted: May 18 2015 at 07:33 | |||||||
You should try to make good music, and it will probably be somewhat 'different' if it's good. Bands that try to sound 'different' end up sounding contrived.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29625 |
Posted: May 18 2015 at 08:40 | |||||||
It happened to be at the right place at the right time, nothing more nothing less.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29625 |
Posted: May 18 2015 at 08:48 | |||||||
does the musid sound good or doesn't it?if you over analize it you are wasting my time.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29625 |
Posted: May 18 2015 at 13:46 | |||||||
Being around when it was. If it was around in the the 80's it would have been around in the '80's... If you could bother yourself to look there was plenty of good prop going on but then again that have been too much trouble...
Edited by Slartibartfast - May 18 2015 at 13:55 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29625 |
Posted: May 18 2015 at 14:08 | |||||||
what killed prog in he 1970's as pathetic attempts to go commercial not punk
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5093 |
Posted: May 18 2015 at 16:05 | |||||||
You can only invent Prog Rock once.
Prog Rock is a genre which exploited a balance between ear-friendly rock and some more complex idioms in terms of composition, instrumental technique or instrumentation. That was done in the late 1960's and the 1970's, that's it. It can be repeated in many ways but it will not sound new. There can be different new ways of being innovative but if they do not exploit the same principles, they will not be Prog Rock as we know it, they will just be new kinds of progressive music. |
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cleardot
Forum Newbie Joined: May 26 2015 Location: NY, NY Status: Offline Points: 2 |
Posted: May 27 2015 at 11:56 | |||||||
Sorry if this old article has been posted a million times, for me it accurately describes the musical culture that spawned early prog.
http://www.oocities.org/sunsetstrip/8827/essay.html The early progressives were not casual listeners of Stravinsky, Holst and Copland. Jon Anderson once stated he analyzed Petrushka and Rite of Spring to "understand how they worked". It paid off: Yes was Stravinskian without copying Stravinsky. The uniqueness and quality of 70's prog owed much to the listening work those musicians did, not to mention their high level of literacy. I'm glad it can't be reproduced with a set of "prog rules". New groups like Buke and Gase, Victoire, Tuneyards are playing fantastic games with polyrhythm and structure but I do miss the long form works of those early bands. The nostalgia factor is real. But if I heard a band today as good as Genesis in 72 I'd know it. |
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Chicapah
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8238 |
Posted: May 29 2015 at 15:02 | |||||||
I'm not going to read every post so this may be redundant but what made 70s prog unique was the fact that people were more willing to listen to an entire LP from start to finish than they are now. A 20 minute epic like "Close to the Edge" would get a fair listen more than once in the analog era and its memorable themes and dynamic movements would inevitably endear the music to even the most casual or pop-biased of ear. No doubt there are prog artists creating aural art these days that are just as talented as Yes, ELP and the like but folks are reticent to spend more than four minutes on a piece of music. And that's the shame of it all.
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12608 |
Posted: May 29 2015 at 21:26 | |||||||
So, you would say that what made prog great in the 70's was the audience more than the bands themselves? That's an interesting notions, and it rings some truth, but I'm not sure I'm ready to embrace it as the most important reason. |
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Intruder
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 13 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2091 |
Posted: May 30 2015 at 22:28 | |||||||
The above "audience" idea is interesting. Prog had a captive audience at the time. Then came the VCR....Atari....cable tv.....the great prog killers. Now those pimply faced kids aren't out grabbing the new Wishbone Ash, they're out scoring porn videos.....or watching kung fu on channel 11....or Richard Pryor....or Space Invaders and Breakout (a personal fave).....the power of the video image.....the interactivity of hand, eye and screen! To compete, things needed to get....shinier, prettier, younger, more watchable, more shocking! Easy to see why punk swept over things so quickly.....a great market grab scheme as it was the first real movement in pop culture immersed in video culture.....brilliantly used, as well. Music truly about the audience.....the fashion, hairstyles and attitude translated immediately. Hide you Yesshirts.....it's the punk hordes! The rest is history.....prog became a niche market with bands either sticking to the old vein or incorporating mainstream elements....now we pick over the remnants and decide what is or isn't prog, but....of this I'm sure, from the mid 60s to the early 70, originality was rife....progressive music was the norm....."prog" was "art rock" and even Billy Joel was using Wakeman swirls in his songs. The "manufacturing" of music had begun but the music was still the primary force. Ahhhh, to be alive when FM mattered, when record stores were shrines, when rock shows weren't clichés...amazing time to have been a modern-day "prog" fan. |
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I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: May 30 2015 at 22:37 | |||||||
Partly, it's a simplistic explanation. I am not quite so young anymore as I nudge 30 but I was very much in my early 20s when I got into 70s prog and had all the patience for CTTE, still do. My problem is entirely different from what he describes: over the years I have become very intolerant of cliches and that makes me hyper selective in modern prog. It would have been the same had I lived through the 70s. I just get to reap the benefits of the 'selection' that has been done by listeners over three decades and go straight for the classics instead of wade through a sea of mediocre albums to find that diamond in the rough.
But partly, it has a modicum of truth. Not so much in terms of patience but perhaps open mindedness. John Wetton in his 90s interview has said it was possible to get away with outrageous experimentation in live shows in the 70s whereas only very abbreviated, muted improvs would be tolerated today. There's too much of "I know what I like and I don't want anything else" in the air. Maybe music is now just a sideshow, a soundtrack to our computerised lives and this close minded stance is a symptom of that. But anyhow, when I was listening to Indian music as a teenager, I did not know that I would go on to like heavy metal and prog rock, indeed a whole host of Western music genres. I did not know when I got introduced to Metallica that one day I would develop the appetite for stuff like Morton Feldman or Terry Riley. So I can't make sense of this stance where listeners already believe they know what they want - only a jaded mind thinks that way. But there it is and it is not an environment that's going to encourage artists to be bold. Even if they are bold, it has to fit within certain patterns of weirdness/avant garde-ness/chaos. A band like Yes were bold within, largely, the framework of conventional melody. That kind of prog has disappeared. Possibly there is a dearth of new ideas to make conventional melody exciting but partly it is also a reflection of a myopic, misguided mindset wherein anything that sounds melodic is automatically passive and boring music.
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