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micky
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Topic: 2nd Round Classics: Third v. Faust s/t Posted: July 25 2015 at 08:41 |
next up... Vegas has given this matchup the largest vote spread. Can it remain close or respectable. We shall see! First up. The Soft Machine!!! Reviewed by... oh jesus. One of the great lights of this site and one of the most engaging friendly people I ever had the pleasure to get to know through the site. Antionne
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Canterbury Scene
4.21 | 743 ratings
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From Progarchives.com, the ultimate progressive rock music website
febus
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
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THE CANTERBURY ALBUM! What a difference a year makes!! It's very hard to believe that THIRD is following VOLUME TWO as there are barely any
similarities between the band's first two releases and this then-double LP. Yes, this is the same trio RATLEDGE/HOPPER/ WYATT
but SOFT MACHINE has expanded in the meantime to a .....septet adding no less than 4 horns indicating clearly which way the
band intends to go. At the time of this recording, only ELTO DEAN on sax was left from this quartet and was added as a
definitive new member of the band. I only can imagine the facial
expressions of some of the old SOFT MACHINE sound fans when they got
this double album when it
was released. I don't know of too many bands that so drastically changed
their sound from one album to another. They left
behind all the fun silliness, the wild psychedelism, weird lyrics , good
humor to become a very serious jazz/rock/avant guardist
band with very long uncompromising structured suites ( at least for some
of them). Where a lot of bands would have drown commercially with
such a move, SOFT MACHINE would succeed and become one of the
prog giant of the time with a very strong dedicated following. This is
amazing as THIRD is a very,very challenging album,
sometimes weird and definitely not very accessible, even for an advanced
prog connoisseur. No one in the band was trying to
hit the charts with THIRD. But the times were right for such a release
in this burgeonning prog scene, especially in old Europe in
countries such as England, Belgium, Holland and mostly France where they
were considered as a leader of the prog scene as
much as PINK FLOYD for instance. By now MIKE RATLEDGE the
keyboardist has taken control of the band, decided to go in a more jazz
oriented way. He is
responsible for the writing of 2 of the 4 suites that comprise this
album. Also his organ playing all over the album is what makes
also THIRD a stand-out; His organ is sounding absolutely sublime,
haunting, i don't even know how he does to sound like that as i
haven't heard anyone else doing the same thing.This is one of the
magical aspect of THIRD as much is the Fuzz box bass from
HUGH HOPPER who play lead most of the time adding rich unique textures
to the music. The role of ROBERT WYATT has been reduced to
being a mere drummer (albeit always recognizable with his unmistaken
very
drums style)on the 2 RATLEDGE tracks and the HOPPER one...with no vocals
at all. He is still the composer of one of the 4 sides
of THIRD with one of my all time favorite tune , the beautiful MOON IN
JUNE the only vocal piece, but what a piece.
This is no longer like a funny silly ditty from the first two albums,
but a well composed beautifully haunting memorable piece of
music with the most gorgeous athmosphere only WYATT can create with its
unique vocals. It is helped also a lot by the wonderful
mysterious sound of the organ ,first played by WYATT himself, then
helped by a great RATLEDGE solo and of course this
rumbling fuzz HOPPER bass that add another layer of mystical beauty to
the song.
One of the most bewitching song i know, such a magnificent athmosphere,
so unique no one else would be able to copy. SOFT MACHINE was
definitely not looking to please the masses with THIRD. How can you
explain the decision to open the album
with FACELIFT from HUGH HOPPER, one of the most challenging tune you
will ever hear! Even from a prog stand, this is not easy
listening, as many prog lovers have been turned off by FACELIFT.
If you like challenge and new horizons in your prog, look nofurther:
FACELIFT and THIRD are waiting for you, first to experience
for sure, then hopefully you like them but this is not a guarantee!!! FACELIFT
is a live rendition of two different parts that have nothing in common
being put together in a cut and paste style.
The intro is very, very hard to get into with a lot of noise,
distortions all over the place until an invasion of horns enter the
scene
helped by a powerful HOPPER. It took me many years back then to get into
FACELIFT as i was listening only to the other 3 sides
of THIRD. But little by little, with patience, i ''got '' it and now
love this piece with its wonderful RATLEDGE organ solo and the no
less great flute solo from JIMMY HASTINGS. The 2 RATLEDGE suites
are a little bit more ''easy '' to get in ( i said a little bit
more!!!), especially OUT-BLOODY-RAGEOUS which
starts and ends with tape loops of organ well in the style of
avant-guardist musician TERRY RILEY. A vey spacey experience until
the piano enters the frame and ELTON DEAN sax plays the main -great-
theme followed by a -rageous-organ solo from MIKE
until things quiet down very nicely for the second part of the suite
with tranquil piano , then again the amazing sound of this
gorgeous organ and ELTON DEAN horning nicely and emotionally all over. The other RATLEDGE tune SLIGHTLY ALL THE TIME is a more delicate suite with different parts with some of sublime beauty like
the inserted little HOPPER piece ''NOISETTE''. Some MILES DAVIS influences , especially from the 60s quintet, can be heard
throughout, but it remains definitely a SOFT MACHINE affair with again the magic sound of this incredible organ, a delicate
electric piano sounding in the background. The themes are played by the saxes of ELTON DEAN and LYN DOBSON ,but the hero
is JIMMY HASTINGS who as a guest plays magical flute that adds another dimension to this great piece.
The last part OF SLIGHTLY ALL THE TIME, named later BACKWARDS will even be covered by CARAVAN in their album FOR GIRLS
WHO GROW PLUMP. BACKWARDS is the perfect example of the mesmerizing organ playing from M. RATLEDGE. A piece of utter
beauty. THIRD is one of the most amazing album ever released. It
was well beyond its time opening the doors to plenty of other bands
which would assume the continuity of the Canterbury sound. SOFT MACHINE
was the pioneer and went no one else were
before. THIRD would be their last great album as in the future other
personal changes and lack of magical inspirations like on this
album would dilute the quality of their next releases. THIRD is an
album of wild experimentations, utter sheer beauty, delicate sound
landscapes and scary instrumentations
exceptional musicianship and creativity, uncompromising stance......and
with all that it was quite a successful commercial album
and their concerts at this time were well patronized and often sold
out!!
The MIKE RATLEDGE CROWNING achievement ...with a little help of his
friends HUGH and ROBERT!
There is nothing similar to THIRD,an absolutely unique experience, of
course not for every one taste , but an unforgettable
treasure when you get into it. Just dare!!
I am not allowed to give 6 stars, so will be... 5 STARS.
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and in the other corner... FAUST!!! Reviewed by the master himself. Cesar!!!
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Krautrock
3.83 | 167 ratings
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From Progarchives.com, the ultimate progressive rock music website
Cesar Inca
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator
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Faust is arguably. arguably?. evidently and unabashedly!!. the most
extravagant
and multicolored band in the krautrock movement - as the band's
biography liner notes
for the ProgArchives clearly state, their music is not for the
faint-hearted, and so any
sympathetic reviewer could reasonably hesitate at giving a 5 (or even 4)
star rating to
any of their albums. But after the initial hesitation, the fact is that
all of us, lovers of
Faust music, cannot but admit publicly that their best recordings are
essential (while
remaining not totally recommendable) in any good prog collection. This
is, precisely, the
case of their amazing debut album, which serves, most of all, as a
manifesto of
distorted hard rock, uncompromising psychedelia, radical pastiche,
Dadaist humor and
electronic avant-garde in a very cohesive progressive amalgam. The fact
is that this
musical offering preserves its inner myriad of sonic contrasts in a
unitary whole. While
not having the finesse of Can's musicians nor portraying the raw energy
of ART or Guru
Guru, the truth is that Sosna, Irmler, Wüsthoff, Peron & Diermaier
together make up a
very tight ensemble. Each one of the three pieces in the album's
repertoire comprises
an open field for diversity - two of them are 8+ minute long and the
other, 16+. 'Why
Don't You Eat Carrots?' starts with brutal slide guitar layers upon
which samplers of The
Rolling Stones' 'satisfaction' and The Beatles' 'All You Need is Love'
appear; then, a semi-
chamber grand piano section is accompanied by the sound of an angry man
giving
orders in an almost Nazi way - go figure! The two main motifs that
follow combine the
dexterity of jazz-rock and the peculiar joy of circus fanfare, both of
them seasoned by
Zappaesque vocalizations and more slide guitar effects. I don't know how
they
managed to do it, but they did: this is an opus of musical aggression
that bears no sign
nor clear evidence of sheer aggressiveness. 'Meadow Meal' has two
distinct parts: the
first one is pure late 60s-early 70s psychedelia; the second one
consists of eerie dual
organ layers surrounded by the sound of rain. 'Miss Fortune' is the
suite that fills the B-
side of the vinyl edition, and it pretty much reiterates the band's
penchant for complex
psychedelic rock and unpredictable nonsense as exhibited in the previous
two tracks. A specific note regarding this track: the acoustic guitar
based coda bears a buoclic beuaty in its simplicity, but it is
preveneted from becoming "romantic" by the presence of a double voiced
soliloquy. If
you're a listener whose aesthetic feel is in tune with Faust's demanding
musical ideology, then this is a record that you will surely enjoy and
may even find essential (as I personally do). This is also - together
with the sophomore "So Far"' - the recommended hit-or-miss try for the
listener regarding the music of Faust: either if you ultimately enjoy it
or you do not, it is clear to me that your "Faust" (or "So Far")
experience will necessarily define your future interest (or lack of) in
exploring the band's catalogue further. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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zravkapt
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Joined: October 12 2010
Location: Canada
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Points: 6446
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Posted: July 25 2015 at 08:58 |
I have to chose? I'll go with Faust since Third will win this.
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Magma America Great Make Again
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Meltdowner
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Location: Portugal
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Posted: July 25 2015 at 09:06 |
Another vote for Faust
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 12938
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Posted: July 25 2015 at 09:50 |
Third for sure but I enjoy Faust a lot.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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GKR
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 22 2013
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 1376
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Posted: July 25 2015 at 10:24 |
I like Faust... but Soft Machine's Third grew on me...
I think I'am adquiring the taste.
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- From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: July 25 2015 at 10:38 |
Third.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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ole-the-first
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 03 2012
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 1534
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Posted: July 25 2015 at 10:40 |
Third, which would probably lose to Faust IV.
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This night wounds time.
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The Bearded Bard
Special Collaborator
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Joined: January 24 2012
Location: Behind the Sun
Status: Offline
Points: 12859
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Posted: July 25 2015 at 10:52 |
3rd
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46828
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Posted: July 25 2015 at 11:06 |
ehhh.. while my appreciation for the Softs and this album has grown substantially over the last few years... I'm still hardwired for Faust. It is me.. what I love.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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dr wu23
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Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20468
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Posted: July 25 2015 at 14:52 |
Soft Machine over Faust any day of the week......but I have never been much of a fan for the angular kraut bands like Faust and Can.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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t d wombat
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Joined: August 14 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 504
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Posted: July 25 2015 at 20:12 |
Soft Machine was never a huge fav of mine though Wyatt is one of those glorious national treasures that only the Brits can produce. Otoh I'm not all that familiar with Faust. Better have a good listen before I vote on this one.
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Andrew B
“Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” ― Julius Henry Marx
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15916
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Posted: July 25 2015 at 20:22 |
I like carrots too, but Third for me.
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LearsFool
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 09 2014
Location: New York
Status: Online
Points: 8625
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Posted: July 25 2015 at 22:32 |
zravkapt wrote:
I have to chose? I'll go with Faust since Third will win this.
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Ultimately my conclusion too.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15916
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Posted: July 26 2015 at 02:51 |
I'be always found Faust S/T to have a perfect side 1, but side 2 kind of loses me. I love Kraut freak-outs, so I don't really understand why I haven't fallen for Miss Fortune. Thyme for the clear platter to hit the TT methinks. Still, probably will never be above our beloved Softs though.
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SaltyJon
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Posted: July 26 2015 at 03:23 |
Faust, if it had been up against one of Soft Machine's first two albums, though...would have been a much tougher choice.
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Imperial Zeppelin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 14 2013
Location: Kuwait
Status: Offline
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Posted: July 26 2015 at 03:52 |
3rdddd
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"Hey there, Dog Man, now I drink from your bowl."
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zravkapt
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Posted: July 26 2015 at 09:37 |
SaltyJon wrote:
Faust, if it had been up against one of Soft Machine's first two albums, though...would have been a much tougher choice.
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Yeah, if it was Vol. 2 then Faust would not get my vote.
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Magma America Great Make Again
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TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2014
Location: Norwalk, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 9319
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Posted: July 26 2015 at 09:55 |
Soft Machine just because.
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Guldbamsen
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Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
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Points: 23098
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Posted: July 26 2015 at 09:58 |
zravkapt wrote:
SaltyJon wrote:
Faust, if it had been up against one of Soft Machine's first two albums, though...would have been a much tougher choice.
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Yeah, if it was Vol. 2 then Faust would not get my vote. | Volume 2 is the best Soft Machine album. You guys have taste I'll give you that. Regarding this poll, I am going with Third. I dig the Faust debut but there was far better to come from them....like So Far, The Faust Tapes and IV fx.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Nogbad_The_Bad
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RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team
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Posted: July 26 2015 at 11:30 |
Need to listen to both again to make up my mind, both great.
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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