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Topic ClosedSerialism in rock?
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Froth View Drop Down
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Points: 461 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2015 at 11:43
There are lots of rock pieces without a tonal centre but the only piece I know that uses the 12-tone method is Erk Gah by Henry Cow. I suppose a method in which all melodies are derived from a single sequence of all 12 notes and thus strictly notated, doesn't lend itself naturally to rock, even progressive rock. I think U-totem may have used some 12-tone techniques.
 
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Points: 472 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2015 at 00:13
Originally posted by WeepingElf WeepingElf wrote:

As ought to be well known, serialism has been the dominant paradigm in academic avant-garde music for much of the 20th century.  However, I am not aware of any example in rock that uses such techniques.  Is there really no such thing as serialism in any branch of rock music, or do you know any?  (Not that I am much into serialism myself.  IMHO, the whole serialist business was a dead end, and resulted in mostly ugly and unintelligible music.)




Oh gosh whenever I see or hear the word "serialism" my mind (and ears) recollects the music of Arnold Shoenberg, Anton Webern, and Alban Berg when I was studying music theory & composition at school. The only album I can think of at the moment is Captain Beefhearts & His Magic Band's "Trout Mask Replica" (1969). I know "12-tone" was used especially by Jazz artists like Bill Evans, and Miles Davis- You might also want to check out Frank Zappa -



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Points: 7946 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2015 at 18:34
I don't see the big deal. As Dean was saying, I don't think I could tell if someone was using that 12 tone method. Lots of Avant Rock is atonal. Any time you use a symmetrical scale (e.g. whole/half diminished, 9 note augmented), you either don't have a root note or you have lots and lots of root notes to a point where it doesn't really matter anymore what you call a root note. Twelve tones are of course all the notes available and what is referred to as the chromatic scale, and just another very extreme version of a symmetrical scale, so I'm really not sure I would be able to tell the difference between some using the 12 tone method versus any other application of the chromatic scale. Someone should do some fact checking because I thought it was just a myth that the 12 tone method required all the notes be played before repeating, but I've been wrong before.
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Points: 3167 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2015 at 19:38

I know some people that hate this guy. But heck yea Ron.

There are 12 tone sections in this and such.



Here he explains how he uses his system and how it's not like the stuff Schoenenburg(spelling bad) uses.



Edited by Smurph - September 27 2015 at 19:46
http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/



wtf
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2015 at 21:32

 
As always, Frank Zappa was ahead of his time.
Waltz For Guitar is one of the earliest pieces of twelve-note serialism ever written for classical guitar.
Frank Zappa was 18 years old when he composed Waltz For Guitar in 1958.


Edited by Svetonio - September 27 2015 at 23:15
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Points: 2601 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2015 at 01:30
The thing with the above diminished 7th chords is that all dim 7 chords are inversions (4) of themselves at minor third intervals (rather than different chords). The Oscillation cycles uses these chords as a 5- 4-1 standard song progression (just like any one of millions of songs) with the mild dissonance inside of each chord. Very cool and how to convey a sense of song with the 12 tone scale. Sort of Wild Thing via King Crimson. And a very good way of introducing adventurous sounds into rock.

Not as good as the five note minor pentatonic though. ;) hehe
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Points: 6 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2015 at 04:56

Even punks experimented with serialism...
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2015 at 09:41
Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:


I know some people that hate this guy. But heck yea Ron.

* two insane guitar vids *


That was actually pretty interesting - even to a layman like myself who only knows how to play a bit of 'Nothing else matters' and this horrible tune I composed myself called 'Falling down stairs'.




Edited by Guldbamsen - October 19 2015 at 09:42
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