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O666 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Elements from Netherlands for NEO PROG
    Posted: September 24 2015 at 10:08
Elements is a Neo Prog band from Netherlands. Their music is very similar to Marillion early 80's music with a little Floyd flavour. I'm sure they tried hard to make Neo Prog music and you can see this very clearly but I can't rate their music. Now I give you their official site link. You can find anything that you need about them:
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2015 at 16:02
Review of the 'Monument' album at DPRP: http://www.dprp.net/reviews/201560.php#elements.

Brief samples of all songs from the 'Monument' album:



(More short tubes on the 'Videos' page of the band's official website as given in o.p.)


Definitely Neo Prog. Worth an evaluation methinks... Embarrassed
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2017 at 06:29
Why did not the band has not been added?Shocked
Very good neo prog.


01. The Ongoing Circle Of Life 06:57
02. Intimacy 05:48
03. Values 06:34
04. Your Way 04:34
05. I Miss You 07:15
06. Looking Back For Tomorrow 04:48
07. Symphony For The Nerds 05:55
08. Imprisoned Angel 08:48
09. The Edge Of Time 04:39
Line-Up:
Joost Donkersloot - Vocals, Bass
Rene Alblas - Guitars
Kees Van Oosten - Keyboards, Backing Vocals
Sander De Jong - Drums


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2017 at 07:39
They haven't been added because there has never been an evaluation. Cry My reply (after I started logging into the site again after a 6 month absence just to round up all the missed suggestions that had accumulated during that time) was unfortunately the only response to the suggestion, and it has simply been forgotten again until now. Better luck this time around eh? Embarrassed

Note: Keyboard player Kees van Oosten left the band towards the end of 2015, and was eventually replaced in September of last year by Vincent Kuijvenhoven. Despite this quiet period the band is still active, and there are plans to start performing again in 2017.

There is a facebook page for the band: https://www.facebook.com/ElementsProgMusic, but there hasn't been a status update for several months. Maybe that will change once the band begins live performances again. Smile

I guess it's over to you guys in the Neo team now...  Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2017 at 08:02
Hi. 
Honestly I guess Team's members ignore my suggestions. I will not suggest new bands or musicians here. Its not fair and make me so sad. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2017 at 09:18
Nobody ignores you deliberately Omid, I can assure you of that. LOADS of suggestions get missed on here - by all sorts of suggesters - indeed, one or two of my own suggestions still haven't received a response, and others needed several 'bumps' before they eventually got the attention of a collab.

It's all due to a combination of various factors:

1/ So many new acts are cropping up on sites such as bandcamp, who play music which can loosely be described as 'prog'.

2/ More and more new people are discovering these artists, becoming members here, and suggesting them for inclusion in our database. This is good in one respect - it means that prog is well, and very much alive, in the 21st Century! Unfortunately the evaluation teams are still made up of just 3, 4, or 5 (occasionally 6) collabs - all of whom have private lives outside of PA...and some of whom have had outside issues in their 'real World' to deal with just recently which have limited the time they have available to dedicate to PA activities.

3/ We don't have a dedicated New Suggestions Monitor like we did up until late 2013 to check all these new suggestions and pass them on to the appropriate evaluation teams (if considered worthy of inclusion). The last guy quit because he was simply being overwhelmed with work, and the situation is if anything even worse now (even though a couple of infamous serial bandcamp suggesters have been suspended from the site for quite a few months now).

The site as it currently is set up simply can't cope with the volume of new music that is being created, and which is tagged as 'prog'. It either needs an overhaul in its objectives (which are currently to be the most complete and powerful progressive rock resource), or an overhaul in the way it is set up to deal with the ever increasing flood of new suggestions.

Otherwise things will probably just keep getting even worse going forward, but I repeat: Nobody is deliberately ignoring anyone...it's just a case of severe system overload...She cannae take any more, Captain - She's gonna blow! LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2017 at 09:37
Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

Nobody ignores you deliberately Omid, I can assure you of that. LOADS of suggestions get missed on here - by all sorts of suggesters - indeed, one or two of my own suggestions still haven't received a response, and others needed several 'bumps' before they eventually got the attention of a collab.

It's all due to a combination of various factors:

1/ So many new acts are cropping up on sites such as bandcamp, who play music which can loosely be described as 'prog'.

2/ More and more new people are discovering these artists, becoming members here, and suggesting them for inclusion in our database. This is good in one respect - it means that prog is well, and very much alive, in the 21st Century! Unfortunately the evaluation teams are still made up of just 3, 4, or 5 (occasionally 6) collabs - all of whom have private lives outside of PA...and some of whom have had outside issues in their 'real World' to deal with just recently which have limited the time they have available to dedicate to PA activities.

3/ We don't have a dedicated New Suggestions Monitor like we did up until late 2013 to check all these new suggestions and pass them on to the appropriate evaluation teams (if considered worthy of inclusion). The last guy quit because he was simply being overwhelmed with work, and the situation is if anything even worse now (even though a couple of infamous serial bandcamp suggesters have been suspended from the site for quite a few months now).

The site as it currently is set up simply can't cope with the volume of new music that is being created, and which is tagged as 'prog'. It either needs an overhaul in its objectives (which are currently to be the most complete and powerful progressive rock resource), or an overhaul in the way it is set up to deal with the ever increasing flood of new suggestions.

Otherwise things will probably just keep getting even worse going forward, but I repeat: Nobody is deliberately ignoring anyone...it's just a case of severe system overload...She cannae take any more, Captain - She's gonna blow!†LOL


It was, indeed, me who quit as a new suggestions monitor. I simply could not cope with the sheer volume of suggestions being made. In fact, sometimes it was descending into a full time job, and I already have a demanding one of those

I would be happy to go back to doing work of this kind, but it would have to be on the basis that there were a few collaborators undertaking such work, not just one or two. Personally, my preference would be to actually have a large team undertaking not just suggestions for inclusion, but actually having that team undertaking the evaluations themselves, and such recommendations for inclusion being binding. That way, some of the inevitable ping ponging between teams might just be avoided.

As you say, David, prog is in a healthy state right now, and the procedures we use on the site could do with being updated a bit to keep up.

Whilst I am at it, I would also refer site members and collabs to a recent interesting exchange between an artist (I forget who) and collabs on the Errors & Omissions thread, in which the artist asked for an update on an out of date entry. There is an argument, I feel, for evaluation teams to move away from evaluation (as I say, set up a suggestions/evaluation team to do that), and to move towards what I think is a very important task, that is updating bios and album entries for existing acts on the site. Many, and many well known acts, not just obscure ones, are in dire need of updating, and I think the sub genre teams are the best placed to do this.

Getting procedures changed on the site is not an easy thing to do. Rather like the government department I work for, in fact!

However, this exchange is worthy of wider debate, and I will post in the collab zone to see what other collabs think.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2017 at 09:45
I just posted this on the Neo Prog team thread.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2017 at 10:39
^ and ^^  Thanks both! Approve

Great idea Steve to see if this subject stimulates any discussion down in the caverns below! Thumbs Up

Chris (seventhsojourn) was the New Suggestions Monitor I was thinking about who seemed to be particularly badly affected by his experience of doing the pre-evaluation job. He had a fair amount of (unofficial) assistance from me most of the time, but in the summer of 2014, nine months or so after he retired from the Suggestions Monitor job in October 2013, (after doing it for just under nine months I think), he stopped posting out here in the open entirely (his profile still shows as 4001 posts more than two years later), and I believe he is no longer in the RPI team either, although that is still shown as his main function here on his forum member profile page. He still logs in every now and then though. I've no idea if there were any outside personal issues involved at the time, but he seems to have suffered burn-out on somewhat of a grand scale after his time here in the dual role of New Suggestions Monitor/RPI team member.

I think a lot of the problems we currently have with getting new suggestions dealt with is due to the few evaluation collabs we do currently have in our teams trying to soldier on with the job when they are faced with long-term personal issues outside the site, rather than stepping down immediately so that someone else with more time on their hands can be drafted in to replace them and inject 'new blood', though that in itself can lead to problems with the new guys getting used to the way things work etc etc. It's a difficult one... Ermm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2017 at 16:15
Pity we work voluntarily 

We will check them, but let us take time every Neo Team member is too pressed with his/her real life (I'll have an important exam 2 weeks later).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2017 at 09:46
Hi.
A Big thanks to David . You right my friend (as always!). I completely agree with you and lazland . But sometimes bad feelings attack to me and make me sad. Honestly , sometimes I can't control my feelings  . I don't know how to explain it now. 
Thanks again guys for your time and good comments Thumbs Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2017 at 12:00
You're hardly alone when it comes to that struggle. I appreciate this community, and engaging with people here is one of my support mechanisms. :) At times it can make me feel worse, but ultimately I love having this sense of community.
"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views" (Doctor Who - The Face of Evil, Jan 22, 1977).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2017 at 02:47
Agreed with Omid and Artur. Very good Neo Prog. Shocked

Forgive me but please let us take more time. Thanks for your patience.


Edited by DamoXt7942 - April 21 2017 at 02:50
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2017 at 07:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2017 at 08:57
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

Nobody ignores you deliberately Omid, I can assure you of that. LOADS of suggestions get missed on here - by all sorts of suggesters - indeed, one or two of my own suggestions still haven't received a response, and others needed several 'bumps' before they eventually got the attention of a collab.

It's all due to a combination of various factors:

1/ So many new acts are cropping up on sites such as bandcamp, who play music which can loosely be described as 'prog'.

2/ More and more new people are discovering these artists, becoming members here, and suggesting them for inclusion in our database. This is good in one respect - it means that prog is well, and very much alive, in the 21st Century! Unfortunately the evaluation teams are still made up of just 3, 4, or 5 (occasionally 6) collabs - all of whom have private lives outside of PA...and some of whom have had outside issues in their 'real World' to deal with just recently which have limited the time they have available to dedicate to PA activities.

3/ We don't have a dedicated New Suggestions Monitor like we did up until late 2013 to check all these new suggestions and pass them on to the appropriate evaluation teams (if considered worthy of inclusion). The last guy quit because he was simply being overwhelmed with work, and the situation is if anything even worse now (even though a couple of infamous serial bandcamp suggesters have been suspended from the site for quite a few months now).

The site as it currently is set up simply can't cope with the volume of new music that is being created, and which is tagged as 'prog'. It either needs an overhaul in its objectives (which are currently to be the most complete and powerful progressive rock resource), or an overhaul in the way it is set up to deal with the ever increasing flood of new suggestions.

Otherwise things will probably just keep getting even worse going forward, but I repeat: Nobody is deliberately ignoring anyone...it's just a case of severe system overload...She cannae take any more, Captain - She's gonna blow! LOL


It was, indeed, me who quit as a new suggestions monitor. I simply could not cope with the sheer volume of suggestions being made. In fact, sometimes it was descending into a full time job, and I already have a demanding one of those

I would be happy to go back to doing work of this kind, but it would have to be on the basis that there were a few collaborators undertaking such work, not just one or two. Personally, my preference would be to actually have a large team undertaking not just suggestions for inclusion, but actually having that team undertaking the evaluations themselves, and such recommendations for inclusion being binding. That way, some of the inevitable ping ponging between teams might just be avoided.

As you say, David, prog is in a healthy state right now, and the procedures we use on the site could do with being updated a bit to keep up.

Whilst I am at it, I would also refer site members and collabs to a recent interesting exchange between an artist (I forget who) and collabs on the Errors & Omissions thread, in which the artist asked for an update on an out of date entry. There is an argument, I feel, for evaluation teams to move away from evaluation (as I say, set up a suggestions/evaluation team to do that), and to move towards what I think is a very important task, that is updating bios and album entries for existing acts on the site. Many, and many well known acts, not just obscure ones, are in dire need of updating, and I think the sub genre teams are the best placed to do this.

Getting procedures changed on the site is not an easy thing to do. Rather like the government department I work for, in fact!

However, this exchange is worthy of wider debate, and I will post in the collab zone to see what other collabs think.


very well said...Clap  I dare say a change might just bring a few of us retired back out.  The system worked when we were building the site and had scores of us working and working together... now it is very obsolete.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2017 at 09:32
There is simply too much music released these days under the "prog" tag, and - let's face it - a lot of it is not very good, which often makes evaluations a chore. Therefore, burnout is always lurking around the corner. I spent the best part of the past 10 years or so writing reviews almost non-stop - with the result that now I can hardly write a couple of sentences about music, and (what is worse) have steadily lost interest in it. Nowadays it's more a matter of going through the motions than something I really take pleasure in.

Based on my own experience, I am not surprised in the least that some people get to the point of disappearing completely. Keeping up with this section of the forum is not for the faint of heart. Personally, I think the whole evaluation process is in need of a overhaul. I would be in favour of allowing single Collabs to add bands, though I understand this is a rather controversial proposal.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2017 at 09:42
only controversial to those who think they know better than everyone else hahah.   I'd definitely be in favor of that... you know what my motto long was...  where there is smoke there is fire and most importantly the site was supposed to be for .. the user.. not the collaborator.  The site did forget that... and we did set up ourselves as God's of dictating what was prog or not.  Perhaps it had a place early on but that time is LONG past and the genre teams were meant more to sort out the mess that was the database circa 2005 not to become what they quickly did...  personal fiefdoms.  Granted it was fun to head severa teams myself but it ultimately was a dead end proposition... very few bands get 100% support... if but 25% think so.. so what... in the early days when (as you well know darling) people got mean and nasty when bands got added they didn't agree with it thankfully matured and people finally got through their heads that not everyone sees prog the same way and the forum became more live and let live... and it did well before we left .. well outside of the collabs themselves hahah

Chance will likely never happen though.. I sense ZERO care (note how Steve's post would have sank into the ether) about the state of the site so yeah.. it will continue on auto pilot.  There really is no drive to improve it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2017 at 13:50
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

There is simply too much music released these days under the "prog" tag, and - let's face it - a lot of it is not very good, which often makes evaluations a chore. Therefore, burnout is always lurking around the corner. I spent the best part of the past 10 years or so writing reviews almost non-stop - with the result that now I can hardly write a couple of sentences about music, and (what is worse) have steadily lost interest in it. Nowadays it's more a matter of going through the motions than something I really take pleasure in.

Based on my own experience, I am not surprised in the least that some people get to the point of disappearing completely. Keeping up with this section of the forum is not for the faint of heart. Personally, I think the whole evaluation process is in need of a overhaul. I would be in favour of allowing single Collabs to add bands, though I understand this is a rather controversial proposal.


I am glad this discussion has been restarted, and thanks to Micky for his welcome comments.

Turning to Raff's post quoted above, I, too, used to love reviewing. In fact, I have been on a bit of a spending spree with new music in the last month, or two, and I have a huge backlog of music which I would love to post my thoughts on, but I am finding it extremely difficult to motivate myself to do so, and it is not just the usual (true) excuse of not having a great deal of free time to do so.

Perhaps if I get around shortly to doing the one, and enjoy it again, then the rest will flow.......


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2017 at 08:05
Hi
First I want to say a thanks to Micky . "Ignored by Collaborators" is very "Clear" in PA Forums specially in this section (suggesting....). Raff said "There is simply too much music released these days under the "prog" tag " . Of Course but  you have too many resources about them too. You can find many good information about those bands in 3-5 mins (as I do it everyday) . This is not about opinions or taste. For me , its about honor . 
Team's members can reply to guys like me and inform me about my suggestion . They can say "No" or "Yes" to me. I make a suggestion post base under PA rules but after few days check my post for reply and I faced to nothing! 
Sometimes , On of Team's members reply to my post with this words " Thanks. I add it in the chart " and when you check charts in PF , you see they Rejected it only by 1 no vote! This happened for me about "Encircled" band. 1 yes and 1 no vote and then its rejected! And when I wanted to know why , I faced to Locked post!
After all , These things affected to me hardly. Now I come to PA forums 1 or 2 hours in week. Before these , I came 1-3 hours in a day! I know , You don't care about guys like me. Its not important for you I come to PA forums or not.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2017 at 18:17
hmmm.....heartfelt and honest.. so I'll return the favor.

I do understand the frustration.. back in the day we, especially Raff and I who drafted countless members to join our teams and become collabs, would have zero'd in on you. I appreciate the respect the drive and caring about seeing the bands added.  It was hard work back then, probably harder still today, and you needed people that were dedicated and cared.

don't take it personally... being 'ignored'.... it is not personal and I'm sure you're adult enough to realize it. It takes a special breed to invest the time to monitor, evaluate and add/maintain and those resources you mention.. are in fact rare and precious.. not something commonly found.  We had a lot of them in those days.. highly motivated and knowleagle people...and we built this site and we should be, I know I am, damn proud of it. 

However whatever frustration you might have, you do have to temper it with understanding this site is dead man.. creatively dead. It has been on autopilot for years with a few obvious exceptions of some teams that still are killing it.  The problem is two fold.. not enough volunteers to help with the screening and adding.. and what goes hand in hand with that is the lack of feeling that devoting such time would do anything meaningful. For all the sh*t I give the classic admin team, some of it deserved... some just to be a instigator.. they really supported us well.  When we needed something.. they helped out.  There is nothing like that today...  you have a couple moderators sweeping away spam or moving wayward polls and threads. .but the big problem is there is no leadership here thus the site continues on autopilot. 

My advice...  spam more and worry less.  As I noted above...  the site could get back on track.. but it would need some hard changes to how it has done things.. and without leadership to implement it.. it ain't happening so you can just accept it and be happy when a suggestion is noticed... or not.
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