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Topic ClosedModern album FINAL!!! Hybris v. Spirit of Eden

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Poll Question: pick the winner of the 2015 PA's modern album tournament
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
41 [44.57%]
51 [55.43%]
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2015 at 09:38
For God's sake, it's a damn poll.

I don't believe Talk Talk is Prog...But what the hell.

If Talk Talk wins....Hybris will continue being as good as it is, the poll won't change a bit the nature of the album.

"A Kind of Blue" was in the top albums of the site and it's not remotely Prog, but that ranking didn't changed the natiure of the album.

Let it be Svetonio.
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2015 at 10:21
Excellent comparison of Kind Of Blue ClapClapClapClapClap
There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2015 at 11:02
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Art-Rock the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner;


Er Confused
Nope, still not getting it.
Ah, it had to be so pathetically predictable that the Talk Talk's fans who are pushing their fav band / one of top fav bands into Prog and rape our beloved genre with that action, will "still not getting it", although it's evidently that Talk Talk, even with their 80s art-rock effort titled Spirit of Eden, has nothing to do with Prog.

It's nothing to do with whether Spirit is prog or not, I just didn't understand what you meant by "Art-Rock the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner". I was actually interested in what you saw as the difference between the two, but if you're just going to be rude then I won't bother to ask again.

It's nothing to do "raping our beloved genre" (What a ridiculous comment!). Regardless of what you think, Talk Talk are on PA under Crossover so deal with it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2015 at 13:09
One more vote for Hybris (stupid poll) Ouch
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2015 at 16:42

Hmmm....imho neither album deserves to be in a final for best modern prog album......but then I mostly listen to old retro classic stuff anyway....and bands that have a similar style. So there it is.

 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2015 at 18:09
Do I think either of these albums are the epitome of Prog ? Course not, but that is just the way the poll worked out. Big deal. Me I didn't know either of these two before this and now own them both so hey, I'm happy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2015 at 19:14
Originally posted by t d wombat t d wombat wrote:

Do I think either of these albums are the epitome of Prog ? Course not, but that is just the way the poll worked out. Big deal. Me I didn't know either of these two before this and now own them both so hey, I'm happy.
Exactly what this poll was supposed to be about. Not all this bullsh*t about some albums not being prog (Svetonio, I'm looking at you) or thinking that some Moroccan band that you like deserves to be in the final.
There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2015 at 22:35
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Art-Rock the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner;


Er Confused
Nope, still not getting it.
Ah, it had to be so pathetically predictable that the Talk Talk's fans who are pushing their fav band / one of top fav bands into Prog and rape our beloved genre with that action, will "still not getting it", although it's evidently that Talk Talk, even with their 80s art-rock effort titled Spirit of Eden, has nothing to do with Prog.

It's nothing to do with whether Spirit is prog or not, I just didn't understand what you meant by "Art-Rock the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner". (...)
Why Tommy  is a rock-opera, why it is not a prog-rock opera? Whether due to lack of odd-time signatures? Of course not, because there are the odd time signatures at Tommy. Or maybe it's because Roger Daltrey sings in Rock manner?
Roger Daltrey was even left the Who in 1968 for a while because didn't want to sing Townshend' songs in prog manner and refused that the songs would be arranged in prog manner what actually was a desire of always fashionable Pete Townshend to turn The Who into prog band just because "progressive music" was something the most "IN" in the fashionable London in late 60s. However, Roger Daltrey was a hardcore fan of Elvis Presley and he didn't like prog. (I read in an article that Roger Daltrey, when Townshend showed to him his first songs for Tommy,  said "do you expect me to sing this sh*t?")
I'm not a music teacher nor a musician, just a fan, so I can't explain those things on that "school way" if you expected so, but I already gave some examples. For a smart person it would be enough to understand that Rock manner of singing and Prog manner of singing is not the same thing. Actually, it's very different. Why? Probably the main reason is that that in Prog the voice is way more just one of the instruments than in Rock.

Edited by Svetonio - September 30 2015 at 22:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2015 at 23:39
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Why Tommy  is a rock-opera, why it is not a prog-rock opera? Whether due to lack of odd-time signatures? Of course not, because there are the odd time signatures at Tommy. Or maybe it's because Roger Daltrey sings in Rock manner?
Roger Daltrey was even left the Who in 1968 for a while because didn't want to sing Townshend' songs in prog manner and refused that the songs would be arranged in prog manner what actually was a desire of always fashionable Pete Townshend to turn The Who into prog band just because "progressive music" was something the most "IN" in the fashionable London in late 60s. However, Roger Daltrey was a hardcore fan of Elvis Presley and he didn't like prog. (I read in an article that Roger Daltrey, when Townshend showed to him his first songs for Tommy,  said "do you expect me to sing this sh*t?")
 


What?

Overture
Underture
Amazing Journey
1921
Welcome
We're not Gonna Take it

Are Prog tracks.

The fact that Tommy is not a full Prog Opera is because in 1968 PROG HAD'T DEVELOPED COMPLETELY.

This has no relation with the vocals

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:


I'm not a music teacher nor a musician, just a fan, so I can't explain those things on that "school way" if you expected so, but I already gave some examples. For a smart person it would be enough to understand that Rock manner of singing and Prog manner of singing is not the same thing. Actually, it's very different. Why? 

It's more than obvious you're not a music teacher.

The manner of singing is a matter of personal characteristics and vocal range, if the music fits into the Prog genre, you can put Axl Rise to sing and will still be Prog.

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Probably the main reason is that that in Prog the voice is way more just one of the instruments than in Rock. 

What?

David Byron's Uriah Heep
Greg Lake's ELP
Peter Gabriel's Genesis
Steve Walsh's Kansas
David Surkamp's Pavlov's Dog
John Wetton's King Crimson
Fish's Marillion
Francesco di Giacomo's Banco del Mutuo Soccorso
PFM
Le Orme

Are bands in which vocals and lyrics are as important as any instrument.

And could mention 100 more

Have you ever heard Jesús de la Rosa from Triana?

The music is pure Prog and he was a damned cante Hondo singer.

Have you ever heard Jose Cid?

Sings like a frustrated hard rock vocalist, but 10,000 Anos Depois Entre Venus e Marte  is 100% Prog





Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 30 2015 at 23:45
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2015 at 23:45
Semantics, gentlemen.  It's all semantics.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 00:29
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Why Tommy  is a rock-opera, why it is not a prog-rock opera? Whether due to lack of odd-time signatures? Of course not, because there are the odd time signatures at Tommy. Or maybe it's because Roger Daltrey sings in Rock manner?
Roger Daltrey was even left the Who in 1968 for a while because didn't want to sing Townshend' songs in prog manner and refused that the songs would be arranged in prog manner what actually was a desire of always fashionable Pete Townshend to turn The Who into prog band just because "progressive music" was something the most "IN" in the fashionable London in late 60s. However, Roger Daltrey was a hardcore fan of Elvis Presley and he didn't like prog. (I read in an article that Roger Daltrey, when Townshend showed to him his first songs for Tommy,  said "do you expect me to sing this sh*t?")
 


What?

Overture
Underture
Amazing Journey
1921
Welcome
We're not Gonna Take it

Are Prog tracks.

(...)



I disagree. Only these three instrumental tracks (you forgot Sparks) are the prog parts of Tommy  1969 the original album

p.s. Oh and I forgot that only one full-prog track at that art-rock album titledTommy!
 
 


Edited by Svetonio - October 01 2015 at 05:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 09:43
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Art-Rock the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner;


Er Confused
Nope, still not getting it.
Ah, it had to be so pathetically predictable that the Talk Talk's fans who are pushing their fav band / one of top fav bands into Prog and rape our beloved genre with that action, will "still not getting it", although it's evidently that Talk Talk, even with their 80s art-rock effort titled Spirit of Eden, has nothing to do with Prog.

It's nothing to do with whether Spirit is prog or not, I just didn't understand what you meant by "Art-Rock the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner". (...)
Why Tommy  is a rock-opera, why it is not a prog-rock opera? Whether due to lack of odd-time signatures? Of course not, because there are the odd time signatures at Tommy. Or maybe it's because Roger Daltrey sings in Rock manner?
Roger Daltrey was even left the Who in 1968 for a while because didn't want to sing Townshend' songs in prog manner and refused that the songs would be arranged in prog manner what actually was a desire of always fashionable Pete Townshend to turn The Who into prog band just because "progressive music" was something the most "IN" in the fashionable London in late 60s. However, Roger Daltrey was a hardcore fan of Elvis Presley and he didn't like prog. (I read in an article that Roger Daltrey, when Townshend showed to him his first songs for Tommy,  said "do you expect me to sing this sh*t?")
I'm not a music teacher nor a musician, just a fan, so I can't explain those things on that "school way" if you expected so, but I already gave some examples. For a smart person it would be enough to understand that Rock manner of singing and Prog manner of singing is not the same thing. Actually, it's very different. Why? Probably the main reason is that that in Prog the voice is way more just one of the instruments than in Rock.
I'm obviously not smart enough to understand so I'll give up.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 09:57
Uhh....what does The Who have to do with the thread topic?
Leave it to Mr S to bring in an irrelevant point.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 10:26
Yeah.....maybe we could get back on track hereErmm
Using up 3-4 pages worth of incomprehensible explanation of something no one other than the poster himself understands/gives a sh*t about, is perhaps pushing the envelope a bit too far.

Who cares what sticker fits best on Spirit of Eden? It is a most gorgeous album.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 10:42
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Yeah.....maybe we could get back on track hereErmm
Using up 3-4 pages worth of incomprehensible explanation of something no one other than the poster himself understands/gives a sh*t about, is perhaps pushing the envelope a bit too far.

Who cares what sticker fits best on Spirit of Eden? It is a most gorgeous album.




*Standing ovation*Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 10:44
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Uhh....what does The Who have to do with the thread topic?
Leave it to Mr S to bring in an irrelevant point.
 
Disapprove
Actually, chopper asked me for more explanation how that manner of singing is the most noticeable difference between Prog and Art Rock. I gave some examples - The Beatles, 10cc, 80s Townshend solo stuff and The Who's rock-operas. Sadly, he's not able yet to hear the differences.
 
Oh and this is a forum for the music discussions if you forgot that.


Edited by Svetonio - October 01 2015 at 11:09
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 10:58
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

(...)

Who cares what sticker fits best on Spirit of Eden? (...)


LOL! Who cares because that art-rock / ambiental album Spirit of Eden "wins" at this poll, if we (almost) all know that Anglagard's Hybris is the true winner regarding the modern (and "modern") Prog albums at this tournament.

Edited by Svetonio - October 01 2015 at 11:44
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 11:03
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 (...) Who cares (...) 


No one.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 13:35
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Uhh....what does The Who have to do with the thread topic?
Leave it to Mr S to bring in an irrelevant point.
 
Disapprove
Actually, chopper asked me for more explanation how that manner of singing is the most noticeable difference between Prog and Art Rock. I gave some examples - The Beatles, 10cc, 80s Townshend solo stuff and The Who's rock-operas. Sadly, he's not able yet to hear the differences.
 
Oh and this is a forum for the music discussions if you forgot that.

Well I must have missed your "example" of The Beatles and 10cc but quoting Roger Daltrey and The Who doesn't give an example of the difference between singing in prog and art rock - that's just quoting band names. I can obviously see a difference between Daltrey's rock singing of something like Baba O'Reilly and Jon Anderson's more sedate style, I presume that's what you mean, however Daltrey can sing quieter songs and Anderson can rock a bit. Where would you place someone like John Wetton?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 19:11
Kind of disappointed that the 'modern prog' final is two albums that are closer to 1970 than the current year

Edited by TheGazzardian - October 01 2015 at 19:11
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