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cstack3 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2015 at 23:59
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

King Crimson's In the Wake of Poseidon is a rip off of King Crimson's In the Court of the Crimson King. Does that count?

Well, not nearly as much as Bob's rip-off of Gustav Holst's "Mars, the Bringer of War" for his own song "The Devil's Triangle"!  LOL




Edited by cstack3 - October 09 2015 at 00:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2015 at 00:47
I think Bi Kyo Ran wasn't mentioned yet. They are a japanese band who clearly copy King Crimson especially the Red album era. Why listen to them? because they are actually very good!
The first album came out in 82' and the second in 84', both are very good albums, recommended.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2015 at 01:49
Originally posted by Big Ears Big Ears wrote:

Osibisa copied Santana without the guitars, surprisingly successfully.

No way

OSIBISA is a band that blended their native AFRICAN rhythms with Psychedelia, has nothing in common with Santana.

Santana focused in Salsa and Central American music, not in music from Ghana...As a fact, Teddy Osei and Sol Amarfio, started 10 years before Santana with a band called The Star Gazers playing Afro Dance and Jazz in Ghana, 




When joined by Mac Tontoh they form the Comets in 1962 and they were already playing the same kind of music as Osibisa, because when expatriated Osei and Amarfio got impressed with Rock which they added to the Afro High Life Dance Music.

They were the central lineup of Osibisa and formed The Cat Paws that turned into Osibisa after three Caribbean musicians joined.

So no way, OSIBISA are 100% original.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 09 2015 at 01:52
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2015 at 08:57
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

King Crimson's In the Wake of Poseidon is a rip off of King Crimson's In the Court of the Crimson King. Does that count?

Well, not nearly as much as Bob's rip-off of Gustav Holst's "Mars, the Bringer of War" for his own song "The Devil's Triangle"!  LOL



You are right and this was obviously in bad taste on Fripp's behalf. I mean just because he's Fripp..people will come up with the defense for him in a subtle, intellectual way which is always , (9 hundred and 99 times out of a thousand), a huge case of "what if's" . I just have a problem being convinced that Fripp himself would ever do something like this. Supposedly he adapted something from Bartok music written for string quartet on Larks, (although Bartok is not receiving credit), perhaps it is less revealing unlike "Devil's Triangle" being the obvious. It's really strange that someone would think in their own mind...that they could get away with replacing the original composers name with their own. Personally...I would have felt strange and awkward if I were to do something like this. I wouldn't be able to live with it and because of the principal alone. Is their some sort of Holst estate maintaining the protection for his music or is there some completely pointless law that applies the choice for people to exploit the options of an item being public domain. In otherwords, "I can borrow ...just to borrow for an extended time, credit my name, etc. So it's totally disgraceful because you are taking someone else's music , written in a different century ...and you're not willing to be honest and correct anyone who asks if you wrote it and it becomes accepted as a formality within the business. ????
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2015 at 09:10
Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:

I think Bi Kyo Ran wasn't mentioned yet. They are a japanese band who clearly copy King Crimson especially the Red album era. Why listen to them? because they are actually very good!
The first album came out in 82' and the second in 84', both are very good albums, recommended.


Never made that connection in my head. Bi Kyo Ran sound rawer/heavier and the vocals differentiate them. But now that you mentioned I should go back and check again!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2015 at 11:52
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Big Ears Big Ears wrote:

Osibisa copied Santana without the guitars, surprisingly successfully.

No way

OSIBISA is a band that blended their native AFRICAN rhythms with Psychedelia, has nothing in common with Santana.

Santana focused in Salsa and Central American music, not in music from Ghana...As a fact, Teddy Osei and Sol Amarfio, started 10 years before Santana with a band called The Star Gazers playing Afro Dance and Jazz in Ghana, 




When joined by Mac Tontoh they form the Comets in 1962 and they were already playing the same kind of music as Osibisa, because when expatriated Osei and Amarfio got impressed with Rock which they added to the Afro High Life Dance Music.

They were the central lineup of Osibisa and formed The Cat Paws that turned into Osibisa after three Caribbean musicians joined.

So no way, OSIBISA are 100% original.

Iván

In the Bio for Osibisa it mentions Santana influences. The bio was written by you, Ivan.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2015 at 11:53
Nobody's mentioned any TD fetichists yet.

Arc
Redshift
Michael Garrison
Radio Massacre International
Neuronium
Node
Airsculpture
Wolfgang Bock
Ian Boddy
Dallas Campbell
Cosmic Ground
Earthstar
Emeralds
Free System Projekt
Steve Hauschildt
Michael Hoenig
Bernd Kistenmacher
Peak
Phrozenlight
Jonas Reinhardt
Robert Schroeder
Mark Shreeve
Space Art

Many more where they came from - some better than others (some even manage to take the TD ingredient and turn it into something semi-unique).



Edited by Guldbamsen - October 11 2015 at 11:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2015 at 12:14
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Big Ears Big Ears wrote:

Osibisa copied Santana without the guitars, surprisingly successfully.

No way

OSIBISA is a band that blended their native AFRICAN rhythms with Psychedelia, has nothing in common with Santana.

Santana focused in Salsa and Central American music, not in music from Ghana...As a fact, Teddy Osei and Sol Amarfio, started 10 years before Santana with a band called The Star Gazers playing Afro Dance and Jazz in Ghana, 




When joined by Mac Tontoh they form the Comets in 1962 and they were already playing the same kind of music as Osibisa, because when expatriated Osei and Amarfio got impressed with Rock which they added to the Afro High Life Dance Music.

They were the central lineup of Osibisa and formed The Cat Paws that turned into Osibisa after three Caribbean musicians joined.

So no way, OSIBISA are 100% original.

Iván

In the Bio for Osibisa it mentions Santana influences. The bio was written by you, Ivan.

And I stand on it.

I say INFLUENCED, you say RIPPED...Every band in the 60's was influenced by others, when The Beach Boys released an album, The Beatles took ideas, when Santana a added a Psiche organ to Latin Rock, everybody tried to do something similar with their native music.

It's obvious that the Psyche component has influences, but their Tribal African Rock is absolutely unique

But this doesn't mean they ripped anybody, they simply added some characteristics of other musicians to their already unique sound.


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 11 2015 at 12:33
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2015 at 13:07
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Nobody's mentioned any TD fetichists yet.

I did mention Michael Garrison and Michael Hoenig on the first page Wink
I consider Garrison one of those who put his own stamp on the style with his classical training.
However, Hoenig's Departure from the Northern Wasteland copies TD's style down to a "T" (and a "D"!).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2015 at 13:10
Originally posted by Replayer Replayer wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Nobody's mentioned any TD fetichists yet.

I did mention Michael Garrison and Michael Hoenig on the first page Wink
I consider Garrison one of those who put his own stamp on the style with his classical training.
However, Hoenig's Departure from the Northern Wasteland copies TD's style down to a "T" (and a "D"!).
 
Mark Shreeve, as well. TD never recorded anything quite like Legion or Crash Head.
 
Hoenig was briefly in TD as a touring member, and he was in Agitation Free. Both bands knew of each other. It was only logical that he record a good ol' Berlin School album (and a great one, at that). Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2015 at 13:24
Originally posted by Replayer Replayer wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Nobody's mentioned any TD fetichists yet.

I did mention Michael Garrison and Michael Hoenig on the first page Wink
I consider Garrison one of those who put his own stamp on the style with his classical training.
However, Hoenig's Departure from the Northern Wasteland copies TD's style down to a "T" (and a "D"!).



Sorry my bad - must've slipped me.

Garrison did infuse the classic TD sound with his classical key skills but not enough to sound original imo. To me it sounds like TD with a guest.
Totally agree on Hoenig's Wasteland - an album that never grabbed me much. It kinda irritates me that he would make a carbon copy of Stratosfear instead of extrapolating on his own style. -A style that countered the smooth guitar work in Agitation Free. He sounded dangerous and edgy on those records. I would've loved to hear an album where he took that 'nerve' further.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2015 at 15:40
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

King Crimson's In the Wake of Poseidon is a rip off of King Crimson's In the Court of the Crimson King. Does that count?

Well, not nearly as much as Bob's rip-off of Gustav Holst's "Mars, the Bringer of War" for his own song "The Devil's Triangle"!  LOL



You are right and this was obviously in bad taste on Fripp's behalf. I mean just because he's Fripp..people will come up with the defense for him in a subtle, intellectual way which is always , (9 hundred and 99 times out of a thousand), a huge case of "what if's" . I just have a problem being convinced that Fripp himself would ever do something like this. Supposedly he adapted something from Bartok music written for string quartet on Larks, (although Bartok is not receiving credit), perhaps it is less revealing unlike "Devil's Triangle" being the obvious. It's really strange that someone would think in their own mind...that they could get away with replacing the original composers name with their own. Personally...I would have felt strange and awkward if I were to do something like this. I wouldn't be able to live with it and because of the principal alone. Is their some sort of Holst estate maintaining the protection for his music or is there some completely pointless law that applies the choice for people to exploit the options of an item being public domain. In otherwords, "I can borrow ...just to borrow for an extended time, credit my name, etc. So it's totally disgraceful because you are taking someone else's music , written in a different century ...and you're not willing to be honest and correct anyone who asks if you wrote it and it becomes accepted as a formality within the business. ????

I've read in numerous places where the estate of Gustav Holst sued Fripp over his unauthorized use of "Mars," and also read that they sued the Japanese electronic genius Tomita for his re-recording of "The Planets."  It might be urban legend, but it is a curious episode, considering how protective Fripp has been of his own music!  



Edited by cstack3 - October 11 2015 at 15:40
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2015 at 23:23
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:


You are right and this was obviously in bad taste on Fripp's behalf. I mean just because he's Fripp..people will come up with the defense for him in a subtle, intellectual way which is always , (9 hundred and 99 times out of a thousand), a huge case of "what if's" . I just have a problem being convinced that Fripp himself would ever do something like this. Supposedly he adapted something from Bartok music written for string quartet on Larks, (although Bartok is not receiving credit), perhaps it is less revealing unlike "Devil's Triangle" being the obvious. It's really strange that someone would think in their own mind...that they could get away with replacing the original composers name with their own. Personally...I would have felt strange and awkward if I were to do something like this. I wouldn't be able to live with it and because of the principal alone. Is their some sort of Holst estate maintaining the protection for his music or is there some completely pointless law that applies the choice for people to exploit the options of an item being public domain. In otherwords, "I can borrow ...just to borrow for an extended time, credit my name, etc. So it's totally disgraceful because you are taking someone else's music , written in a different century ...and you're not willing to be honest and correct anyone who asks if you wrote it and it becomes accepted as a formality within the business. ????

Well, he's not the only one,  Wakeman clearly ripped In In the Hall of the Mountain King by Grieg and if I'm not wrong only credited him after he was  warned.






Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 11 2015 at 23:24
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2015 at 10:47
When it comes to "borrowing" or appropriating others composers' works, Emerson is king. Some of the composers are credited, while the following are not:
 

With the Nice[edit]

With ELP[edit]

 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2015 at 11:48
Starcastle copied Yes like no other. It sickened me.
"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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