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GreatBeyonder 
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Joined: March 15 2016
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 Posted: March 26 2016 at 04:24 |
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The quality of Remasters/Remixes really doesn't have anything to do with vinyl or CDs. It's strictly an issue of human judgment. Modern producers tend to intentionally screw with the dynamic range which couldn't be manipulated with earlier technology, for truly idiotic reasons. Check out Stevie Wonder's stuff, which sounds just as gorgeous as it did in the 70s. Jethro Tull albums are also well handled. Nick Davis would have had to INTENTIONALLY butcher the Genesis remasters for them to be so compressed and unlistenable, because it really is the easiest thing in the world to just leave the DRM in the double digits and preserve the music as performed.
Edited by GreatBeyonder - March 26 2016 at 04:26
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 17 2007
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Points: 2601
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Posted: March 26 2016 at 03:37 |
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Ended up with both versions of Deadwing on DVD Audio because of content difference. Not sure I'll do that again. I mean I like the album, but this was getting silly. In this case one distribution outfit wanted different content to the other release - or some such nonsense.
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Catcher10
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Posted: March 25 2016 at 08:46 |
 LakeGlade12 wrote:
So apparently Steven Wilson has recently (3rd March 2016) released a remaster of his 2008 solo debut Insurgentes. Yes you heard me right, a remaster (which SW apparently hates and as we all know prefers remixes) from the guy who is well know for making his albums sound crystal clear and virtually perfect. Well I have the original version and it sounds just about perfect to me, so why this is getting a remaster is a complete mystery to me.  |
Well it is possible it is being called a remaster because the original version is out of print, sure you can still find them new and used, but stock may be low. I suspect there is demand for more copies to be pressed. My KScope version from 2009 yea it's well done mixed album and the sound is impressive, I doubt I buy another version, its a great album but not that great to have two of them.
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 17 2007
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Posted: March 25 2016 at 06:59 |
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This remaster / remixing thing can really ruin the album buying experience. Is Ziggy Stardust best with the RCA versus EMI version, the one with the latest remaster, the one a few years before or the first (remaster). Or another example of ridiculousness - the Zeppelin compilation Mothership using the latest remasters. So you could get two copies and ... do they sound radically different? Apparently so, to the discerning ear.
This may all be down to the mess the record companies made of hi res audio. Instead of everything being in 24 bit / hybrid they make sure these "pop" records are still disposable products.
FYI classical fans I found a lovely 2 SACD of pianist Sviatoslav Richter performing studio Piano Concertos (Dvorak (Gm), Greig and Schumann (both Am). Utter heaven. Know hi-res - no vinyl.
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JD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
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Points: 18382
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Posted: March 23 2016 at 07:14 |
LakeGlade12 wrote:
So apparently Steven Wilson has recently (3rd March 2016) released a remaster of his 2008 solo debut Insurgentes. Yes you heard me right, a remaster (which SW apparently hates and as we all know prefers remixes) from the guy who is well know for making his albums sound crystal clear and virtually perfect. Well I have the original version and it sounds just about perfect to me, so why this is getting a remaster is a complete mystery to me. |
Simply put...CASH GRAB!
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LakeGlade12
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Joined: September 29 2013
Location: UK
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Posted: March 23 2016 at 06:51 |
So apparently Steven Wilson has recently (3rd March 2016) released a remaster of his 2008 solo debut Insurgentes. Yes you heard me right, a remaster (which SW apparently hates and as we all know prefers remixes) from the guy who is well know for making his albums sound crystal clear and virtually perfect. Well I have the original version and it sounds just about perfect to me, so why this is getting a remaster is a complete mystery to me.
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
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Points: 4807
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Posted: March 15 2016 at 17:34 |
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in my experience, bonus material is rarely ever that. There's usually strong reason why it didn't make the album. I think of Steve Hackett's Hercules Unchained - just silly and sung in the same vain, regardless of some crafty guitar work. I'm generally unfazed by the existence of extras on the remasters I buy. I'm primarily concerned (as I'd assume most are) with the quality of the remaster of the primary music itself.
Edited by Rednight - March 15 2016 at 17:41
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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JD
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Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
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Posted: March 11 2016 at 18:01 |
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^I have the original Vapor Trails CD and it sucks for production. It was definitely in the need for a rework, but only because Paul Northfield and/or David Leonard completely f#@ked it up. The remix was a welcome correction. A bit of a unique reason to remix an album so early on in it's existence.
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Catcher10
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Posted: March 11 2016 at 09:26 |
JD wrote:
Here's another example of WTF?? I just found out about.
Queen - Innuendo 2001 Japan Remastered Toshiba-EMI 1991
Does a 1991 album that's only ten years old really need a remaster? I don't think the technology took much of a leap during that period. Sounds like a real cash grab that one. I have the 1991 CD and I think the sound is fine the way it is.
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It happens, have no info on that Queen release...but take for example Rush~Vapor Trails released in 2002....Remixed in 2013 due to high overall volume levels causing clipping and distortion. Even though my original CD I thought was OK (I was too excited, just happy they were back to making music!!), it was not till 5-6 yrs later that I started to get tired of listening to that CD after the first 2 tracks....Gave me a headache!
There are some recordings that are just outright bad out of the starting gate on CD that should be burned and then remixed right away.....
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zravkapt
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 12 2010
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Points: 6446
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Posted: March 10 2016 at 19:54 |
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^I've heard of albums from the late '90s being 'remastered'.
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Magma America Great Make Again
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JD
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Posted: March 10 2016 at 16:49 |
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Here's another example of WTF?? I just found out about.
Queen - Innuendo 2001 Japan Remastered Toshiba-EMI 1991
Does a 1991 album that's only ten years old really need a remaster? I don't think the technology took much of a leap during that period. Sounds like a real cash grab that one. I have the 1991 CD and I think the sound is fine the way it is.
Edited by JD - March 10 2016 at 19:12
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tboyd1802
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Posted: March 10 2016 at 16:24 |
JD wrote:
Like most 'remaster' editions are a crap shoot as to whether it's an improvement or not. I've heard plenty that are NOT.
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IMHO, the two "Immersion" editions of PF (DSofM and WYWH) are complete rubbish. No improvement over the previous editions and the 5.1 surround versions included in these editions are weak - they feel like glorified stereo versions to me pushed out to a 5.1 format - at best.
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He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore
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Intruder
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Posted: March 10 2016 at 12:24 |
Oftentimes a disc loaded with alternate and/or undercooked studio versions makes an album unlistenable, especially those Fantasy or Blue Note label jazz CDs that run the same number three times in a row in alternate versions/takes that have little discernible difference.
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I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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Catcher10
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Posted: March 10 2016 at 12:13 |
Totally hit and miss.......I try and avoid "remasters", since as stated these are simply volume levels pushed equally removing the dynamics and with hard compression..They sound like krapp and should be burned. Thank you the digital evolution!
Remix is the best process to adjust all levels of the original recording. As you see I did not type "improve" as that is subjective, based on final media type and your sound system. This is why people like some and don't, a remix will bring certain sounds, instruments, vocals forward/back/center/L/R....Depending on what might need adjusting, so it will and usually does sound different that the original issue.
Take the LZ reissues of late. For me they are fantastic as all my Zeppelin has been played to death and the grooves, well are not grooves anymore  . Page did an amazing job IMO, on these issues and at least for me the vinyl versions brought back that big, deep, full analog sound that Zepp was known for...Everyone loved their sound in the 70's. The krappy CD remasters did not convey that 70's sound in the 90's.
The other versions I have been deeply immersed in are the Can vinyl releases.....All remixed from the original stereo tapes, as the liner notes detail. The music is well nothing short of brilliant!
I adore the Genesis 2008 remixes by Nick Davis, he did an amazing job and has really done some outstanding work of late. The Genesis were also cut to vinyl as 1/2 speed masters so for me the sound is pretty darn sweet! Essentially the veil was lifted from the original releases I had on Charisma label, very muddy sounding as everyone knows.
As far as bonus material, most of it I could care less for as it is filler, to fill up a 74min CD or fill up a 4.7GB DVD. I will say the bonus material on LZ IV was really nice, that Sunset Sound mix of Stairway is a treat! But yea I don't need 5 different versions of the same song as acoustic, instrumental, radio edit, live or studio out takes......
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friso
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 24 2007
Location: Netherlands
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Points: 2505
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Posted: March 10 2016 at 11:47 |
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I would love to hear a vinyl remaster for Captain Beyond. The original lacks a bit in the lower spectrum.
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I'm guitarist and songwriter for the prog-related band Mother Bass. Find us at http://www.motherbass.com. I also enter stages throughout the Netherlands performing my poetry.
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moshkito
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Location: Grok City
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Posted: March 10 2016 at 09:42 |
hi,
uduwudu wrote:
Or someone who really needs their works remastered. Tangerine Dream for example... would've thought some were made for surround. |
I'm not sure that this could be done easily on the TD material and I think that the release of the early bootleg shows cleaned up some, is probably the better option ... these could be cleaned up, but the recording of these things was a one time only, and I'm not sure that these could be easily remixed, re-mastered maybe, but I think that the recordings were not exactly the best ... at the time. Steven Wilson has shown appreciation for Klaus Schulze more than Tangerine Dream ... he is in a KS DVD for an interview and got to see some of KS's engineers work some details in his music ... first hand, before SW started his string of remixes and re-masters. As I said before, when we heard the English pressing of Sgt Peppers and DSOTM, they did not need a remix or a re-master ... it was the American version that was a copy which was total crap by comparison that needed to be removed off the market! It was insulting to say the least. And we knew this way back then in 1974 ... so people forking out for being cheated and ripped off is not cool. I also did not find SW improved KC at all! And the best version is the recent one done in concert ... not a remix or re-master!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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unforgivable74
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Joined: August 17 2006
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 99
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Posted: March 10 2016 at 08:57 |
I think the original 90's Genesis remasters were a revelation but some of the new remixes leave me cold. That beautiful Hackett guitar solo in the fast bit of DWTMK from SEBTP really came to the forefront on the first remasters. The remixed version leaves it somewhat subdued. Also, on the Collins albums, the vocals are sometimes over-prominent in my opinion. This is a good thing on Seconds Out - perhaps the best remix - because the vocals have always seemed a bit 'distant' on previous versions.
So with that said, I think it depends on the choices made by the person remixing. I haven't heard a bad Steven Wilson remix yet so I tend to trust his judgement.
As far as REMASTERING goes, I think without a 'remix' you are not going to get a great deal of difference from the first time something was remastered, assuming it was done properly. However, to contradict what I just said, I've just bought my 3rd copy of Atom Heart Mother on CD and I can honestly say that the Discovery remaster of this is definitely an improvement on the first 90's remaster.
Extra tracks, for me, should be left for an 'additional' CD or DVD/Blu-ray and never appear as tracks 'added' to the original album. Some are fab, some are merely 'interesting' and many are pointless.
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Laughs as I clean my teeth, laughs as I rub at my eyes.
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JD
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Posted: March 10 2016 at 08:37 |
Intruder wrote:
But the complete studio version of "America" on CTTE is one of the best bonus tracks added to a CD ever! |
Certainly there are exception, but they are not the rule. Very little (as a % of the total additional material released) is worth the bother, or even more importantly, relevant, in any sense of the word.
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Meltdowner
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Posted: March 10 2016 at 08:00 |
uduwudu wrote:
Or someone who really needs their works remastered. Tangerine Dream for example... would've thought some were made for surround.
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It's exactly what I though when I heard Phaedra two days ago. Isn't Steven Wilson a TD fan? 
Just like there were bad and good original editions, there are bad and good remasters (although many were influenced by the loudness war). I've been really enjoying the recent remixes of Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Rush, Can, etc. Some of my Supertramp CD's are awful though.
As for the bonus tracks, it's another reason why I prefer vinyl  I agree that America from Yes is a good exception though 
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progaardvark
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Posted: March 10 2016 at 07:27 |
The only remaster I ever purchased was the 2003 release of ELO 2/Lost Planet, a 30th anniversary limited edition of ELO's second album. It was actually a remarkable improvement over the original U.S. release of this album. I've read elsewhere that the UK version of 1973 was far superior. I may have other remasters without actually knowing it since I have purchased older 1970s prog rock in recent years, never having it on CD before. But the ELO 2 purchase was intentional because I was curious if they could improve on the muddy US version. That's pretty much it for me though. I've been spending most of my time acquiring lots of stuff I have never heard before from the over 9,500 bands and artists on PA, an endeavor that will never end (like family genealogy). But I will be reading and coming back to this thread in the future. Perhaps it is time I look into this area more seriously?
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Remixes / Remasters
