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uduwudu View Drop Down
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Points: 2601 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Stairway to Heaven Copyright Trial
    Posted: June 30 2016 at 04:14
Waste of everything.

Only top line melody and lyrics can be subject to copyright. There was a joke about Metallica owning chords. http://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/17/ctv.metallica/ This is the same sort of thing; only life imitates comedy.

The bit in question has been used on songs such as Let It Grow (Clapton admitted he accidentally rewrote etc...) and This Masquerade (bearing the same harmony as Taurus but not Stairway). There was a number by Davey Graham in 1959 that uses a kind of folk blues rhythm of the tune. But it's been around since 1640 or so. Neither RC nor JP really wrote it; they just think they did.

Anyway I think it's evident to some now that there is a world of music outside the fading called rock. Still it was only during this trial that I learned about Stairway to Carolan. No wonder this number seemed the best composed piece on the 4th album, and no wonder why.
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Points: 17510 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2016 at 16:34
What a waste of everyone's time
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Points: 20491 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2016 at 09:12
Nor did Tull and Anderson ever sue the Eagles.
 
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Points: 15916 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2016 at 18:55
Don't see Moby Grape's Bob Mosley (composer of the song Never) worried about Zepp's Since I've Been Loving You.......
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Points: 1281 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2016 at 18:29
Interestingly,  I heard that the jury was instructed not to listen to the songs themselves, but look at the sheet music. In fact, here's a website that compares the two tabs:

http://www.guitaretab.com/s/spirit/61731.html
He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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Points: 12745 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2016 at 17:49
Considering Randy California never bothered to sue Zeppelin in the 26 years from the time Stairway was released in 1971 up to his death in 1997, and a suit took nearly 20 years to come to court after that,  I would say the whole thing was a farce.
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Points: 15916 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2016 at 17:37
Ooh, there's a tritone in a Sabbath song, and a tritone in a Magma song - don't see them making a fuss over it
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Points: 66009 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2016 at 13:28
The jury finds Page and Plant not guilty.  http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/23/media/stairway-to-heaven-trial-verdict/index.html
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Points: 20491 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2016 at 08:43
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

^You are right.....so why is it moving forward when it's in the public domain as an old trad song..?
Speaking as a legal professional (finally! my area of expertise!) judges are often reluctant to stop a case on disputed facts, lest they look ignorant about a subject area they are being asked to rule on.
 
In other words, they don't want to know if the emperor has no clothes, only if they would be thought fools for issuing a judgment stating that he did not. Safer to let the case advance, leave it up a jury and let them take the blame if they get it wrong.
 
Ok...that makes some sense, but it's been over 40 years and evidence of a traditional song involved..... One would think the judge would tell Spirit at this juncture to move on with the rest of what's left of their lives.
 
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Points: 2223 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2016 at 21:03
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

^You are right.....so why is it moving forward when it's in the public domain as an old trad song..?
Speaking as a legal professional (finally! my area of expertise!) judges are often reluctant to stop a case on disputed facts, lest they look ignorant about a subject area they are being asked to rule on.
 
In other words, they don't want to know if the emperor has no clothes, only if they would be thought fools for issuing a judgment stating that he did not. Safer to let the case advance, leave it up a jury and let them take the blame if they get it wrong.
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Points: 12745 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2016 at 20:40
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Aside from the fact that 'Carolan's Dream' sounds almost nothing like Stairway: not in melody, chord progression, tempo & cadence, arrangement or any other way...
I'll have to disagree with your assessment, particularly in the melody line. You can literally sing the lyrics right along with the harp in parts. It is reminiscent, not a copy, just as Taurus is reminiscent of Stairway. Of course the treatments and tempo vary among the compositions, songwriters have sued other songwriters who simply sped up or slowed down the original chord progressions. Tom Petty sued and won for this:




Hell, treatments vary in the same tune, hence I offered a fast and slow variation of the Carolan tune.
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Points: 64502 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2016 at 19:12
Aside from the fact that 'Carolan's Dream' sounds almost nothing like Stairway: not in melody, chord progression, tempo & cadence, arrangement or any other way, this just shows how ignorant the "Zeppelin were thieves" position is.   It indicates a deep misunderstanding of not only the way music works, but reveals how easy it is to adopt an idea that seems right but actually doesn't hold much water.

Everyone stole continuously: stole, poached, pilfered, purloined, copied, and my favorite, "borrowed", especially in the incestuous Art and Folk scenes in mid-20th cent Britain.   In Zeppelin's case, they were a bit more egregious about credit and a bit too successful to go unnoticed, but no more outrageous in their coveting of all music in order to enhance their own.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Points: 12745 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2016 at 16:33
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

^You are right.....so why is it moving forward when it's in the public domain as an old trad song..?
 
 
Ummm...because judges are usually piss-poor musicians? They say justice is blind, but it may be tone-deaf as well. LOL
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
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The Dark Elf View Drop Down
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Points: 12745 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2016 at 16:31
I'm still waiting for Bach to rise up from his grave and sue Steve Hackett for not crediting him for "Horizons". Direct theft, that one. Wink
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Points: 1079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2016 at 16:30
Hopefully if successful, then Curved Air can have a word with Travelling Wilbury's over the Desiree/Handle With Care mash up!
And I think that case will be stronger.
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Points: 20491 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2016 at 16:25
^You are right.....so why is it moving forward when it's in the public domain as an old trad song..?
 
 
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Points: 12745 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2016 at 16:15
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

I heard that the judge ruled in favor of Spirit.....has anyone else heard this already...?
 
Confused
The judge agreed that the trial should move forward. There is no decision. I've been discussing this elsewhere, and I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread (in which case, excuse my laziness), but Stairway and Taurus both were stolen from the Irish bard Carolan. We're talking 16th century here, folks.

Here is a slower version:


And a faster one:
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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Points: 20491 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2016 at 14:59
I heard that the judge ruled in favor of Spirit.....has anyone else heard this already...?
 
Confused
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Points: 19957 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2016 at 02:10
Copied this over from the Page vs Blackmore thread -




Edited by chopper - April 16 2016 at 02:11
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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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Points: 20491 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2016 at 12:51
Original lineup

California, Cassidy, and Locke are all dead.....I guess that means Ferguson and Andes (or the record company) will get all the money? California wrote the song according to the album credits.
Ermm
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