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Song reviews of bands we don't like

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Logan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 15:40
I was reminded me of this topic with the "bands you tried hard to get into, but couldn't" topic. This topic was meant to help in that process by fine-tuning recommendations and have a conversational angle. This did end up being a bit of a failed experiment since I think my original post in coordination with the topic title might have been misunderstood, and in trying to clarify my intent I may have muddied the waters more and been talking at cross-purposes. Had I used the word feedback in my topic title instead of review, that might have cleared it up (I had hoped my OP would make my intent clear enough).

To reiterate, the idea is:

a) Mention an act, or several, you have negative opinions of from a Prog category you have likes in (it works better if the band/ artist has a fairly large and varied discography and you have not listened to some albums by the band). Also, mention what you don't like about the act's music so maybe we can avoid those qualities in recommendations to you. If you don't like any Prog Metal and mention a Prog Metal band you don't like, then that is less likely to lead to a positive outcome.

b) Someone else post a track (embed or hyperlink, url) from the band someone said they disliked and take into account what they said they didn't like about the band, and it helps if you have a a decent feel for that persons tastes.

C) The person who mentioned a band that he or she doesn't like should then listen to the "recommendation" from the respondent,, then review/ post impressions of the track in this thread that was posted in response to you.

If you're posting a track in response, please consider mentioning your own dislikes if you have any you want give another shot. And do try to take the person's tastes into account when choosing a track if possible. It is easier when you know something of that person's taste. It doesn't have to be a long track review, it's more about just sharing your impressions, good or bad, or maybe a bit of both.

I've found something to like by every band that I put significant effort into researching/ listening to, and I can't think of anything for myself now. I had mentioned Spock's Beard, but the recommendation was good one that I did appreciate, that didn't make a Spock's Beard fan even though I liked the track, but I wouldn't easily dismiss the band now. Probably this wont be useful to people.

Edited by Logan - March 17 2020 at 15:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 16:05
Here's an example:

Fred F.: "I don't like VdGG because of those bloody annoying vocals. I think I'd like the band if it was just instrumental."

Barney R: "Fred, VdGG did come out with instrumental music too. You could try ALT, or maybe you'd like 'Theme One'.

"

Fred F: "Oh man, Barney, that stone age rubble rocks! It's prehistoric good. I like the way the instruments are there, but with no vocals to get in the way. Those swirling keyboard sounds, and that noise that kind of builds and goes places, and does all sorts of stuff before it stops. Yeah, I'm digging this. It kind of appeals to my "Peaches en Regalia" fruity sensibilities. Maybe now I'll go back to the music with vocals and give that a try. Thanks, and sorry again for what happened with Betty. We'd be drinking copious amounts of dino juice, the moon was full, a Phil "Caveman" Collins ballad was playing, and one thing led to another."

Barney R: "Glad you enjoyed it, and no worries. Wilma and I got you back anyway. I think it ended up being fun all around. We should do it more often."

Edited by Logan - March 17 2020 at 16:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 18:34
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Here's an example:...

Hi,

I guess that I listen to all music with a certain kind of appreciation and attention that does not quite make any ideas for saying something different about it ... to me, as in theater and film, it is all about the DIFFERENCE, and how we take a look at it, since one day you turn around, and the music makes sense, and we never saw that ... which is the opposite of your idea, that tomorrow I might find that something I did 45 years ago, I did not like and will today, or vice versa.

I don't go into "listening" as if it was not its own person. I go into it for its own touch, feel, and version of the visuals that music grants me. THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU HEAR/GET HERE, where people are looking for "familiar" materials instead of "newer" materials, which makes/allows for disappointments and dislikes, and I don't do that with the arts ... I don't separate any of it by a designation, that for my tastes had very little artistic merit! It has a top ten ideal and design and concept ... not an artistic one! And this fragmentation of the listeners is hard and harsh in my way of seeing things. There will always be a "review" of that place in time, and how you liked this and that, and I do not have that view ... I saw a lot of things, and did my best to enjoy all of them ... but the stuff that I did not think was that good, or great, I left. This was the case at the time, when I thought that it was sad that at the Whiskey, Babe Ruth got boo'ed and asked to leave the stage and the band and Janita Hahn put on a show that made Iggy and the Stooges look sad and poor and ... I didn't think that it was about the music at that point! There were way too many bands doing the same thing ... but they didn't have Iggy!

In my whole collection, if there is something that seems strange and weird to me, is how Pete Brown sounded fine for Cream and terrible in a whole bunch other albums ... and I'm not sure it was his words, other than maybe folks could not understand him, and CREAM did? Or another one that is perpetually impossible to discuss is how PF for an album and a half could COLOR anything Syd threw at them, and in the end, on his solo albums just about no one could color anything ... and that's probably the only two things that are a bit strange, weird and off kilter in my collection, but I don't know how to write a review of Syd's albums ... and then reading that wonderful comment from Robert Wyatt in his book about Syd, makes the whole thing even worse ... it's like ... is everyone else sitting in this room with Syd an idiot that doesn't know music? I suppose we could say they didn't know Syd ... but what came out, generally, was a bunch of people looking for a "song" and not finding anything, which SADLY made Syd look even worse!

I've been around too much theater and film ... and I have come to appreciate too many things, and too many countries and their way in film, or music, to be concerned with something as (maybe) petty and weird that I felt about it 45 years ago ... I didn't even think The Living Theater or the ETC La Mama Group or The National Theater of the Deaf were weird, or some of the articles in the Theater Review, of which I have over 50 issues from the late 70's and early 80's and the incredible look at some experimental stuff ... that we (could say) might not have an ear for ... and for that reason, I do not criticize it ... there is always something far out in it!

For the most part, all of the reviews, in film or theater I have done, have held up fairly well ... I still look at 2001 as a "false idol" for out imagination and Apocalypse Now as a bad abomination that did not help out our own view on things ... we ended up impressed with the pyrotechnics and the far out bits and pieces about dope, and napalm ... it kinda romanticized the war for all of us ... and I find that scary!

I still love every bit of every album I have, and the music I have heard ... I might ask why the heck Kevin or Roy have bits and pieces about the loo in there, but I'm not going to write a review ... that this is bad and shouldn't be here ... for whatever reason it is there and I'm OK with that!


Edited by moshkito - March 17 2020 at 18:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 18:55
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Here's an example:...

Hi....


Hello.

I'll give the rest a good read and think later, but I don't want to risk us talking at cross-purposes again in this thread. I often do find that the most interesting discussion does happen in the digressions, and I don't wish to be fascistic in asking people to try to stick to the programme. I think we definitely started off on the wrong foot in this thread when I made it, and hoped this time my little experiment might work better.

That said, I do want to make it clear that I do appreciate anyone who takes the time to read, think about, and comment on my topics. I often do put a fair amount of time and thought into them, even if they seem like they were written by a Chimpanzee, or lesser ape, with cognitive impairment.

While this is different from what what I was asking, maybe I can get the ball rolling this way. The furry topic put this band in mind. While I love plenty of Krautrock, I don't like Grumbling Fur because, well, actually it's only because I've never listened to the band. It's a band from the UK included in Krautrock. I tend to like psychedelic and fairly experimental music, so if someone can come up with a track by Grumbling Fur that they think might appeal to me, please link to it, or embed it, and I will post my impressions of the music (my mini review of the track) in this thread. Thanks.

Edited by Logan - March 17 2020 at 19:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2020 at 06:53
Flower Kings for me... and please no 30 minute songs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2020 at 16:29
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Flower Kings for me... and please no 30 minute songs


Scratch my "Fur" request, unless someone happens to know it and posts here, as The Flower Kings would have been a better ask. It does fit the bill for me. I did buy, I think it was Space Revolver around 2005 since I wanted to modernise my "prog" tastes, but found it noodly, too derivative, and uninteresting. And I have given it some other shots, but I don't remember what. That was a long time ago and my ears might respond differently now. Shorter is probably better for me too (a tight one with some interesting and unexpected twists and turns perhaps or, conversely, something straight-forward). Perhaps this can act as a two-fer, unless one recommends something from Space Revolver to Doug. That said, I haven't listened to that album in very long, and so I can't say quite how I would react now (my tastes are generally rather less experimental than they were then).

Edited by Logan - March 18 2020 at 16:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2020 at 08:41
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Flower Kings for me... and please no 30 minute songs

Hi,

That is so weird for me ... but then, I was brought up in classical music and seeing 3K LP's and about 200 operas and having heard a lot of it in my young years, is very different by the time I started listening to stuff that was way better than the top ten crap. 

I believed, and still do, that many of those folks doing alternative stuff then, were simply trying to match up their musical knowledge and putting it to better use than a simple 4/4 and 4 track mind of rock'n'roll mentality.

I seriously doubt that length had anything to do with anything else ... other than the (internal) "story" that the band may have wished to do ... but we might as well trash GENESIS for long cuts in Supper's Ready or many other bands for doing full sides ... and all I can think of is that the majority of these folks worried about length were brought up in the 4 minute time span for most music in the top ten ... and this will hurt their appreciation, LATER, or other musics like classical, and other things that have length in them!

NONE OF US IN THE OLD DAYS ... WORRIED ABOUT THE LONG CUTS ... that was fabricated later by Rolling Stone and New Music Express and Melody Maker because it was hurting the sales of the bands they were supposed to be selling ... remember these magazines were a part of the music companies, not outsiders writing something that the record company did not want!

A review not happy with length, is not a review ... it's someone that doesn't like/understand the visual element in a lot of music ... I guess ... some see it and some don't! But if you can't stand length, you will never hear classical music! 

What a great loss for many ears out there ... it's not their "style"!!!

Some of the best examples in the visual side of things, are not even discussed here ... because everyone thinks it is too subjective ... but I don't know of any DOORS pieces of music that are long that you have to be "subjective" to ... because all it says is that the lyrics stopped you cold! And yeah ... some lines are tough/rough but ... here comes the best part of the trip ... and you're gonna miss it!


Edited by moshkito - March 19 2020 at 08:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2020 at 12:36
Again, by review I just meant share your impressions of the track in this thread. It doesn't have to be a proper review of a song/track, and could be one word or 500 (preferably it would be more than one word).

As I wrote in my opening post, "So I thought it might be fun to post a Prog band, or a Prog album (or several), that one has been dismissive of, or hated, and then another post would link to, say, a particular track from the band/artist on youtube, then that person would write a little review, or impressions of the music after thoroughly listening to it. I would try to avoid really long tracks in response."

A reason why I suggested from the outset avoiding long tracks partially has to do with time (both in terms of listening and commenting). These are already acts that didn't appeal, and it didn't want to feel like a slog. With shorter ones I thought the exercise might be more fun and get into a faster rhythm of asking for a suggestion with some clarification of what one hopes for, getting a response, then responding to the suggestion.   

With The Flower Kings too, they can make really long, and I'd day noodley pieces, and I'd rather hear the tighter but perhaps pregnant with ideas, ones from them. One could also link to a long track and say, "Listen to it from 5:50 to 10:40, I think you'll like that", which might open up a whole track and then a whole album for someone. Sometimes it's the musical moments that can open up larger pieces for me (something clicks, I make associations that work for me). One thing that's important to me in such an exercise is not to judge the other person for what they expect, want, like, or dislike. This should be friendly, fun, and easy-going exercise. If someone wants shorter tracks, that's their prerogative. If someone wants a longer track, then they can specify that.

Although there were some successes in this thread, it does seem clear that this is not an experiment that people would generally be interested in trying -- ergo the general lack of on-topic response with two bumps of mine. Mea culpa, I'm not very good at coming up with effective ideas for topics that are a little different from the norm. I'm more idealistic than I am pragmatic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2020 at 12:53
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Flower Kings for me... and please no 30 minute songs
I only listen to Retropolis, it's their most concise effort. It's still over 60 minutes but I can enjoy it on a good day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2020 at 12:58
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Flower Kings for me... and please no 30 minute songs
I only listen to Retropolis, it's their most concise effort. It's still over 60 minutes but I can enjoy it on a good day.


Does any particular track stand out for you? If you don't wish to link to it, I'll try to, and give it a go myself since, as said, I have also had issues with The Flower Kings.

EDIT: by the way, looking back on this thread, I really appreciated your contributions to it. The topic got painfully side-tracked at times, and I was reluctant to read back through it, but looking back on it, it worked out pretty well (better than most of my topic ideas). Thanks.

Edited by Logan - March 19 2020 at 13:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2020 at 12:59
Reading my previous posts on this thread, I thought I should say I got into VdGG since then, after listening to "Vital". I found out that my problem wasn't with the vocals but I didn't think it fitted the music around it. I think they're on the same page on that live album though.


Edited by Meltdowner - March 19 2020 at 13:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2020 at 13:13
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Flower Kings for me... and please no 30 minute songs
I only listen to Retropolis, it's their most concise effort. It's still over 60 minutes but I can enjoy it on a good day.


Does any particular track stand out for you? If you don't wish to link to it, I'll try to, and give it a go myself.
Maybe the title track, there's a nice KC flavour to it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2020 at 13:31
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Flower Kings for me... and please no 30 minute songs
I only listen to Retropolis, it's their most concise effort. It's still over 60 minutes but I can enjoy it on a good day.


Does any particular track stand out for you? If you don't wish to link to it, I'll try to, and give it a go myself.
Maybe the title track, there's a nice KC flavour to it.



Thanks Samuel, I'm writing this as listening. I'm two minutes in and enjoying it so far. Its driving, definitely not boring, great musicianship, interesting and noisy in a good way, exciting, good groove, it has a certain KC angularity is a little Vangelis-like Blade Runner flourishes, rather retro in a good way. Interesting moments, nice jazzy touches. I'm digging this, and am now seven minutes in. Despite having different parts and lots of changes, it feels cohesive (like a mini-suite, it's tight). Really nice ending too, which reminds me of some of the music in a little-known classic called Morons From Outer Space.



I really enjoyed that, and I have another band not to dismiss. Thank you so much, mission accomplished, at least when it comes to me. I can't fault it and liked it enough that I will not only return to that but want to listen to the whole album. You get a Micky-sized clappie.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2020 at 13:44
I’ll also try that song, I asked for no 30 minute pieces pretty much cause I can’t make a good review off of one listen of a track of that length. And by the chance I don’t like it, I don’t wanna force myself to sit through it multiple times.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2020 at 13:54
What was quite delightful about that suggestion for me was that in a recent post in this thread today, I wrote "With The Flower Kings too, they can make really long, and I'd day noodley (sic?) pieces, and I'd rather hear the tighter but perhaps pregnant with ideas, ones from them." That track seems tight and pregnant with ideas to me. It fit my bill better than I expected. I'm not much of a reviewer, so I just tend to post my impressions which usually run along the lines of "Yowza... blah, blah, insert poor reference here, blah, blah, make sad joke sometimes, blah, blah, blah". :)

Edited by Logan - March 19 2020 at 13:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2020 at 16:44
^ It also took me by surprise when I first heard it. I only knew (and was bored by) their later music but I took a chance on that one when I found a bunch of second hand FK CD's on a record store (probably from the same owner). It was the only single album so it seemed less risky. I think, just like with Spock's Beard, there's an enthusiasm on those early albums that is nowhere to be found afterwards. I imagine them saying "let's make yet another Prog album" after a while.

By the way, I'm curious to know what's the album on your avatar.

Concerning my dislikes, I never liked Kayo Dot. It's strange, reading the reviews it really seems like something I'd enjoy but when it comes to listening, I honestly find it repulsive (and I'm used to odd and challenging music). Maybe it's the production values or I don't connect with Toby Driver's artistic vision... or maybe I didn't listen to the right music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2020 at 17:56
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I’ll also try that song, I asked for no 30 minute pieces pretty much cause I can’t make a good review off of one listen of a track of that length. And by the chance I don’t like it, I don’t wanna force myself to sit through it multiple times.

Bummer .... you'll never sit and listen to Djam Karet's The Trip ... which is magnificent ... but not a prog favorite, because drums don't start for like 13 or 14 minutes into it ... that ought to annoy a few folks!!! Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2020 at 19:18
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

^ It also took me by surprise when I first heard it. I only knew (and was bored by) their later music but I took a chance on that one when I found a bunch of second hand FK CD's on a record store (probably from the same owner). It was the only single album so it seemed less risky. I think, just like with Spock's Beard, there's an enthusiasm on those early albums that is nowhere to be found afterwards. I imagine them saying "let's make yet another Prog album" after a while.

By the way, I'm curious to know what's the album on your avatar.

Concerning my dislikes, I never liked Kayo Dot. It's strange, reading the reviews it really seems like something I'd enjoy but when it comes to listening, I honestly find it repulsive (and I'm used to odd and challenging music). Maybe it's the production values or I don't connect with Toby Driver's artistic vision... or maybe I didn't listen to the right music.


It took me by surprise, partially because it's what I was hoping for, but not really expecting. It's not like those hopes were totally unrealistic as I had heard music by TFK, Unlike writing, "I haven't liked what I've heard of this brutal death metal band, The Frightfully Fetid Faecal Felon Flayers, because it's brutal and I hate death metal, recommend me something that is melodic, pastoral and of the lounge ilk.: Or as I once seriously did at the forum, asking for harmonious choral death growlers, as unrealistic expectations likely would lead to sure disappointment. I'm getting a bit too fanciful again. Anyway, it was very good stuff, thanks. Much better than I hoped for based on my impressions of TFK. It's a common thing that people judge a band too harshly or too easily without knowing enough material -- I've been guilty of that a number of times, and am very happy when my mind is changed. I prefer to judge albums or even pieces rather than pigeonholing bands whole discographies just based on too limited hearing.

As for my avatar's album cover, it's the soundtrack for Angel's Egg by Yoshihiro Kanno - an anime film.

With Kayo Dot, unlike most, my favourite album was Blue Lambency Downward. His music is often quite ugly.



I don't you expect you to like that, not sure my track choice was even the right one. and I actually don't enjoy the album as much as I once did, but the album definitely has plenty of bits I like at the very least.

Edited by Logan - March 19 2020 at 19:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2020 at 06:39
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I’ll also try that song, I asked for no 30 minute pieces pretty much cause I can’t make a good review off of one listen of a track of that length. And by the chance I don’t like it, I don’t wanna force myself to sit through it multiple times.


Bummer .... you'll never sit and listen to Djam Karet's The Trip ... which is magnificent ... but not a prog favorite, because drums don't start for like 13 or 14 minutes into it ... that ought to annoy a few folks!!! Wink


Long songs don’t bother me, they just tend to take me a good amount of time to get into
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2020 at 09:56
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:


As for my avatar's album cover, it's the soundtrack for Angel's Egg by Yoshihiro Kanno - an anime film.

With Kayo Dot, unlike most, my favourite album was Blue Lambency Downward. His music is often quite ugly.



I don't you expect you to like that, not sure my track choice was even the right one. and I actually don't enjoy the album as much as I once did, but the album definitely has plenty of bits I like at the very least.
Never heard of it but after reading the synopsis I'm intrigued.

I enjoyed it quite a lot, thanks! I definitely like the production and the use of space and tension throughout the piece. It seems to slowly ondulate and I'm sure it would bore a lot of people but not me. I ended up exploring further and I'm listening to Toby Driver's "They Are The Shield". I didn't expect to be so moved by it, I guess I found a side of him I like. Thanks for the push Thumbs Up
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