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Joined: January 17 2012
Location: Wirral
Status: Offline
Points: 1079
Posted: July 26 2016 at 15:08
I've resigned myself to this never ending. Even military occupying everywhere isn't going to stop this. I can see people rushing to join the Armed Forces in the hope of being friendly to the people walking past, sitting outside cafés. But instead being used to fight another thing like Russia. I don't want that as much as I don't want these things happening. But I realise it's still going to happen so don't do it yourself. Although these are events, let's not forget the fear hype twist factor of television and Newspapers.
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10377
Posted: July 26 2016 at 02:08
I just saw this video by a woman from my previous home country who is living in Germany. she has a weekly video in which she talks about her life as an American in Munich and her experiences with the German language. I couldn't have put my feelings any better than she does, so here it is:
A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20503
Posted: July 25 2016 at 10:43
^I agree with your post, Steve. Holding religion totally responsible is a symptom of much bigger problems. I believe you touched on all of them. Brilliant.
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13260
Posted: July 25 2016 at 10:27
A Person wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
Then I suppose we can agree on the assumption that religion in general seems to lie at the root of the problem. So now what?
I do not agree with that.
Neither do I. It is a simplistic, albeit understandable, reaction to a problem the Western world is facing across the board. The liberal view of a pluralistic, content, diverse, integrated society fed by mass immigration is falling apart at the seams. What we have, instead, are poverty stricken ghettos, cultures who do not seem to want to integrate, with a indigenous population scared witless with wages and living standards driven down by mass corporate efforts to drive down wages and living standards fuelled by aforesaid mass immigration.
The perfect cocktail for nut cases of all shapes and sizes to prosper, be they religiously motivated, or politically motivated, and certainly manipulated like marionettes on strings by powerful forces seeking to hate and divide.
Western democracies have singularly failed to deal with these issues successfully. Intervention in parts of the world where we had no business interfering have merely fanned the flames.
We are living, I believe, on the cusp of extremely serious times which pose an existential threat to our societies. How we deal with this will define this era in future times.
A lot more love, tolerance, and understanding on all sides would go a long way. We are simply not ready, or mature enough, as a race for this, I am afraid.
Going back to an earlier post, I spend a lot of time in London, Birmingham, and Manchester with work. Every time I use public transport, or walk through built up areas, I feel a great sense of anxiety at what might happen. We cannot carry on like this, but, like most, I do not even begin to know what the answer is.
Joined: June 21 2006
Location: Switzerland
Status: Offline
Points: 981
Posted: July 25 2016 at 09:28
Faith in any doctrine encouraging violence whatsoever, whether religious or not, is an excellent vehicle to justify acts of violence. As for religious books, peace-seekers will find verses backing their views, and warmongers will find motivation in other verses.
If a killer thinks God has decided to get rid of part of His Creation, and God wants to make use of him, it will feel great to the killer to be God's agent; or if he feels bad (maybe on behalf of others) and wants other people to taste similar unwellness, he'll invoke God's punishment for degenerate morality, sins, laziness or whatever reasons. If he goes to war and knows probability of killing civilians is high, he may trust God takes care of everything and have no worry about soul salvation.
If he's an Atheist he may want to "clean" as much as he can, the World from uninteresting, polluting, etc dwellers, or maybe he craves to feeling powerful and strong, and it feels strong when you take others' lives.
Now how others' life / health become worthless, and how those lethal faiths grow from and how they mature, leads us to investigate life drive vs death drive working in various situations.
The Munich case doesn't need be driven by mental disease of genetic kind, since it seems to have stemmed from bullying experiment, typically violence endured by people whom one notices too much for one's taste, hence a discomfort and an uncool tag. Apparently one who tries to settle uncoolness problems with the use of violence deserves at least as much a confrontation with relationship experts (or psys) than their uncool victim.
Typically, any victim of bullying should be given as models people with a similar "aura" who have managed to find a posture that gets them either unnoticed, or noticed but for a good reason.
However unlikely it is that things may calm down, the single process of getting in touch with haters (found around any hot political/war topic) of all kind and challenging their views on the net should end up bringing some more peace on a general level.
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
Posted: July 25 2016 at 05:42
Education and integration would be the main points, I would have thought, but there are two problems with this. Education takes time, not to mention the conflicts concerning the ethnic backgrounds this would evoke. Education is not regarded as a desirable trait; hard work and manual labour is. That is my conclusion from numerous conversations I've held. Integration, though, is an even more difficult point. As we are focusing on Germany at the moment: foreign groups of varying backgrounds arrived in Germany during the middle sixties to help with the work force required at the time. Many went back after several years, but many stayed. With fault lying on both sides, it has to be concluded that large-scale integration has ..... not ..... worked! Even after more than 50 years. This can be witnessed in every German city. The ethnic and religious differences seem just too pronounced. The refugees who have now entered the country come from regions and backgrounds that are even further removed from western culture than the work forces of the 60s were. I'm at a complete loss now because if, as I surmise, education and integration would be the factors most likely to help, they are met with resistance on both sides. But someone had better do something, because otherwise we'll never be safe again.
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
Posted: July 25 2016 at 05:35
BaldJean wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
<p ="msonormal"="">This is a nice sentiment, and I wish it were true.
I agree that social conditions seem to play a vital part, but that's all that I'm in agreement with in your statement.
The way I see it, it is not a matter of ethnic background or nationality, this seems to be entirely religious-driven. It transcends countries, borders and ethnic groups. It's almost ethereal.
I can't even remember when or if I last heard of a Christian, Hindu, or Buddhist rampage.
that's because of the media selection. do you know that there were 5 terrorist attacks by catholic anti-abortionists in 2015 in the USA alone? (arson in California, Illinois, Washington and Louisiana, three people killed and nine injured in a shooting in Colorado)? probably not; crimes by fanatic Catholics are just not the big headlines; a crime by someone of Islamic faith just gets more attention
The problem is religious psychosis generally. The Islam vs the west situation is largely manufuctured IMO. I thought maybe it was because we needed an enemy to justify military spending and increased surveillance, but then I realised that NATO is also amassing forces along Russia's borders so maybe the Islamic thing is a distraction from a far bigger event that is still to come, and that Muslims and westerners alike are simply cattle and pawns being played off against each other in the meantime to keep us all looking the other way.
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
Posted: July 25 2016 at 05:21
SteveG wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
I think the Ansbach attacker had been treated for mental illness, not that that's an excuse for doing what he did, but may explain it more so than straight forward Islamic extremist ideology. We don't know the full background of this individual, and we're getting to the point now where terrorist attacks are so frequent across Europe that the media is going to have to start putting controls on how they report such events because of the effect it will have on the support of far right groups and a bloody and uncontrollable backlash.
If things keep going this way we will be in a situation where everyone will have to go through scanners or pat downs before going into a shopping mall. No one will want to go to music festivals out of fear. If we get to that point then the war is over, and will have been won, but not by Europe or the US.
Isn't all violent fanaticism mental illness?
Isn't all religious faith, fanatical or otherwise a form of mental illness?
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: @ wicker man
Status: Offline
Points: 32705
Posted: July 25 2016 at 05:11
CPicard wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
Then I suppose we can agree on the assumption that religion in general seems to lie at the root of the problem. So now what?
Well, nothing. Lunch time, I guess?
A tricky one, but for a start I wish that somehow without too much backlash to bear, states would stop funding religious schools and subsidizing religions. If the kids aren't so inculcated and are exposed to different peoples, then they'll be less predisposed to prejudice and be more open to different ideas. In Northern Ireland, I think things might have been a lot better if instead of the protestant kids going to one school and the Catholics another, they had gone to school together. Ghettoization should be discouraged too as much as possible/ feasible.
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10837
Posted: July 25 2016 at 04:37
npjnpj wrote:
This is a nice sentiment, and I wish it were true.
I agree that social conditions seem to play a vital part, but that's all that
I'm in agreement with in your statement.
The way I see it, it is not a matter of ethnic background or nationality, this
seems to be entirely religious-driven. It transcends countries, borders and
ethnic groups. It's almost ethereal.
I can't even remember when or if I last heard of a Christian, Hindu, or Buddhist
rampage.
Well, in Europe, Buddhists and Hindus are not exactly wide audiences and I can't say they look very violent. But the Muslim minority in Burma (the Rohingyas), sometimes described as the most persecuted minority in the world, is suffering an intense campaign of violence led by... a Buddhist monk... Also, the violences between Muslims and Hindus in India are quite intense and I'm not sure it's all the fault of the Muslims...
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10377
Posted: July 25 2016 at 04:32
who defines what mental illness is? you could for example argue that building and keeping an arsenal of nuclear weapons is a sign of mental illness, so all responsible for building and keeping them, in essence the reigning politicians of states that keep them and anyone involved in selling or manufacturing them is mentally insane
A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Topic: Shooting in Munich, Germany
Shooting in Munich, Germany
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