Genesis after 1976 and responsibility

Kepler62 wrote: It's funny that a lot of the younger generation aren't that familiar with the pre-ATTW3 material. One kid even refered to genesis' prog years as " back when they were a sh*t band". Saw them in 2007 and apart from the sound being atrocious nobody really connected with the few old songs that they played. I think that the omly track that I can bear from their top forty years is ABACAB and I'm even a bit ashamed of myself for this.

I like the second half of ABACAB too.

^Now that's truly interesting. I'm going to have to get that book.

...and that's the story of most bands.  Team creativity eventually gives way to dominance and/or power struggles where there is more than one dominant personality.  Jon Anderson with Yes, Roger Waters with Floyd and so on.  The strange thing is that often these power struggles result in less creativity.

Decades ago, I heard an interview with Banks on the radio. His explanation then was that Genesis' material had always consisted of shorter songs. The writers would bring them to Banks for help to knit them together (just think of Supper's Ready, for example) and Tony became the sort of de facto chief composer. Banks then says it was just a simple matter of not trying to knit all the groups' songs together. 

^And the favor is returned by PG:

I don't remember
I don't recall
I have no memory of anything at all,
Anything at all

cemego wrote: Just to add my 2 cents here, I love all of Genesis and the solo bits.  But my favorite Genesis era is 1976-79, so: Trick of The Tail Spot The Pigeon EP Seconds Out Wind & Wuthering AND ...and then there were three.. These are my favorites.  I respect the Gabriel stuff, but this era was just a little more enjoyable for me.

Look at the credits for the studio albums. Mostly Tony. I call this the Banks Era and it is Genesis that I like the most from the studio albums. TOTT being my fav.

twosteves wrote: Squonk obviously came from that book---the whole of Trick is a series of fractured fairy tails----but it was stated many times--Squonk was written in reference to Peter leaving the band and crying backstage a lot during the Lamb tour ----having a lot of problems at the time. But I also think as far as late 80's and early 90's prog---Genesis thanks to Banks songs always had updated but proggy songs on them along with the pop singles. Trevor Rabin once said he wished Yes west could do the same---some pop singles and some long prog like songs around the time Talk came out-- but that never happened has Rabin doesn;t have the writing chops that Genesis had----songs like Dodo, Domino, Fading lights, Home by the sea, and Driving the Last spike are certainly not pop but updated prog.

I can honestly say that in all the years i have followed Genesis, i have not heard that particular analogy (regarding it being about peter leaving the band), Yes, its well documented that he had some very worrying and traumatic home issues to deal with and that Tony Banks was not particularly sympathetic (at the time).. It seems a bit tenuous to me.

I agree that much of later (trio) Genesis was 'updated Prog' for the 80's & 90's and this is very much down to 'their chops' and personal/professional chemistry. Even the poppier or 'prog-lite' material has a tightness and professionalism that is hard to match elsewhere. It makes me smile rather than frown when i hear it but if given the choice, personally, i would still head for 70-75.

zravkapt wrote: Tony Banks ruined Brand X

How? Did he demand that Collins abandon this side project and devote all his energy to their band? I mean, I just don't get your comment.

Sean Trane wrote: Rednight wrote: HackettFan wrote: Banks once objected in an interview many years ago that the Pop direction was always there, that as early as Nursery Cryme, they tried short songs, but they didn't know how to do them. I disagree with him totally. Harold the Barrel could have made an excellent hit. But if it doesn't get recognized and given airtime, well we'll never know. The question isn't so much who made them Pop. I can forgive them for an occasional hit, after all (BTW the first hit was actually I know What I Like...). The question is, or should be; Why did they abandon Prog? We're they still capable of doing Prog as a trio? I'm left wondering about that when I hear the Neo-Prog attempt of Second Home By the Sea. Harold the Barrel a possible pop hit? What an offbeat suggestion.   TBH, if label-mates Lindisfarne could do it with something as oddball as Fog on The Tyne the same year as HTB (both 71)....

Fair enough.

I heard Banks in an interview saying that him and Hackett were the two pushing for progier stuff, and when Steve left the balance in the band changed. That led to ATTWT that gave them their first real hit single. So after that, I think aiming for other hit singles was mandatory for them. I think the biggest problem was not the fact that they did simpler songs. It has always been the case. The real problem was the style of the pop songs they made in the 80's. Misunderstanding, No reply at all, Paperlate, and stuff like that after were at odd with the classical sound of Genesis. Also, had to that the fact that with Phil solo success, there was no way to keep him in the band without doing poppier stuff similar to his solo work. By then he was a huge star and long gone were the days when he did not want to be the singer or wanted Genesis to become an instrumental band.

Edited by ClaudeV - February 02 2017 at 13:03