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Barbu 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: infinity
Status: Offline
Points: 30845
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 Posted: July 16 2018 at 20:52 |
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Putin/trump
Quel triste spectacle, ça donne mal au coeur/You can count me out, folks.
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166178
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Posted: July 16 2018 at 20:42 |
 rushfan4 wrote:
Putin denied meddling in US elections...so obviously it didn't happen. |
Whew. Well that makes me feel better. :)
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 64502
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Posted: July 16 2018 at 19:45 |
^ Though I tend to agree, that is almost a conservative argument, and if his right-wing base continues to support him they are going to have to face the fact that he's weak on defense. Ironic.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 12744
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Posted: July 16 2018 at 19:32 |
Atavachron wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
It's time to put politics aside. It's time for all patriots to stand up for the U.S. against a deluded man with a huge ego and small hands who has sold out our country to the Russians. Impeach him, then jail him along with the rest of the traitors. |
Interesting, that's exactly what the extremists in the South were saying about John Kennedy (not that you're an extremist). Much different time of course, but the same statements. |
What you lack here is context and historical perspective. The South said the same thing about Lincoln as they said about Kennedy. The South is still fighting the Civil War today, and now they have a president who thinks they're "good people". What is different is that Kennedy threatened to blow Khrushchev to kingdom come, and he meant it, and Khrushchev backed down.
But Trump literally threw every U.S. Intelligence agent from the CIA, FBI, NSA and National Intelligence Agency under the bus. Trump has resisted putting the Russian sanctions Congress voted overwhelmingly for into place. Trump has not issued any orders, executive or otherwise, to assure the Russian attacks that are still continuing are ceased. Mueller just indicted 12 Russian GRU agents (read the 29 page indictment, it is about as conclusive and thorough as one can get), but Trump ignored the calls from his own party not to meet with Putin. The U.S. just arrested a Russian spy with ties to the N.R.A. and the Trump campaign. And now this appalling display of "fluffing the Putin". It isn't "extremist" to put your country before an enemy state that has been unequivocally proven to have attacked you.
Atavachron wrote:
Trump is neither a traitor nor is he dumb. He's an individual who was elected into office and is exercising that authority as vested in him by voters.
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You and I will have to disagree. As I stated, if he isn't a traitor, he is so deluded he can no longer be trusted to protect this country. Trump said over 3,000 documented lies since inauguration and exhibits each and every trait of having Narcissistic Personality Disorder. We have a time bomb in the White House.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 64502
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Posted: July 16 2018 at 19:00 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
It's time to put politics aside. It's time for all patriots to stand up for the U.S. against a deluded man with a huge ego and small hands who has sold out our country to the Russians. Impeach him, then jail him along with the rest of the traitors. |
Interesting, that's exactly what the extremists in the South were saying about John Kennedy (not that you're an extremist). Much different time of course, but the same statements.
Trump is neither a traitor nor is he dumb. He's an individual who was elected into office and is exercising that authority as vested in him by voters. Neil Cavuto? Cavuto is a fairly independent thinker who will often criticize or disagree with conservative leaders, which I respect. In Trump's mind, the Russians hacked us but therefore what? Of course they hacked us, why wouldn't they? Trump is a scoundrel who understands undercutting, cheating and misleading, so he knows it when he sees it and is not threatened by it. He's a 'strongman', if you will, and his supporters are getting exactly what they wanted. Oh, democracy.
Edited by Atavachron - July 16 2018 at 19:12
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 12744
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Posted: July 16 2018 at 17:51 |
Easy Money wrote:
I think Trump proved today that when it comes to dealing with the real big dogs, he is a total wimp.
Either Trump is actually stupid enough to believe Putin, or Trump owes Putin something, neither is good for the US, or for the rest of the world for that matter. |
We have a traitor in the White House. Either that, or a deluded narcissist so lost in his own alternate reality that he can no longer function as president or protect American democracy. Former CIA Director John Brennan stated unequivocally: "Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to and exceeds the threshold of 'high crimes and misdemeanors'. It was nothing short of treasonous." Trump was called out by several Republican senators about his disgraceful cock-fluffery of Putin, and even Neil Cavuto of FOX News (yes, even FOX News) called Trump's refusal to confront Putin "disgusting". Trump's own appointee, Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats felt compelled to issue a statement immediately after Trump's taint licking of Putin, which in part said, "We have been clear in our assessments of Russian meddling in the 2016 election and their ongoing, pervasive efforts to undermine our democracy, and we will continue to provide unvarnished and objective intelligence in support of our national security." It's time to put politics aside. It's time for all patriots to stand up for the U.S. against a deluded man with a huge ego and small hands who has sold out our country to the Russians. Impeach him, then jail him along with the rest of the traitors.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10367
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Posted: July 16 2018 at 17:27 |
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I think Trump proved today that when it comes to dealing with the real big dogs, he is a total wimp.
Either Trump is actually stupid enough to believe Putin, or Trump owes Putin something, neither is good for the US, or for the rest of the world for that matter.
Edited by Easy Money - July 16 2018 at 17:27
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66009
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Posted: July 16 2018 at 17:23 |
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Putin denied meddling in US elections...so obviously it didn't happen.
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166178
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Posted: July 06 2018 at 17:08 |
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
I'd be willing to bet Trump will be your president for another 4 years. |
I certainly won't be shocked if he wins re-election. 2020 is eons away in political time, and things can change, but as for the right now, the left certainly has to work at it.
Edited by Man With Hat - July 06 2018 at 17:08
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: July 06 2018 at 15:26 |
progaardvark wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
progaardvark wrote:
What you forget is that she had more of the popular vote than Trump
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What you forget is that she had more of the popular vote of those who cared to get out there and vote. Lots of people in blue states consistently stay home because of the predictability of the outcome. But why do you think the Democrats don't want to get rid of the electoral college then? What if all those people did go to the polling stations and did vote? Are you sure Hillary would get the popular vote? |
Actually, surveys have shown that the Democrats have leaned towards wanting the popular vote to determine the election of a president for the past 18 years. That won't happen because amending the Constitution is very difficult. Republicans also leaned toward that during the Obama years, but they changed their views on this after the 2016 election.
Of registered voters, 48% are registered Democrat, 44% are registered Republican, so no, there is no way to be certain that Clinton would have gotten the popular vote if everyone that was registered did so. But what I was originally trying to point out in my post was that the election was much closer than Trump supporters think it was (facts are not something they necessarily believe in).
As an aside note: I think most of us can agree that voter turnout should increase if the winner was decided on the popular vote, whether you're a Republican living in Philadelphia or a Democrat living in rural Utah, provided you actually had a pool of good candidates to pick from.
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I am well aware of the complexities of the Constitutional Amendment process but so are the people in power I'm sure. And by "the Democrats" I meant those in poewer, not the 48% rank and file. Don't you think this is the reason they talk about getting rid of the electoral college so eagerly in public? Barbara Boxer introducing a bill while being absolutely sure it won't reach the Senate floor? What they could have done instead is changing the state election system like Maine did: congressional elector goes to the district winner, and both senate electors to the state winner. Still not perfect but much closer to the popular vote system, much better representation. But if you look at the vote by congressional district you will get the answer. There are too many red districts even in such Democratic strongholds like NY, CA, MA, and IL, and solid 30%+ of popular vote in those states goes to the Republicans. As for Hillary winning the popular vote, this fact is too well publicized for Trump supporters denying it.
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 09 2017
Location: Now
Status: Offline
Points: 9233
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Posted: July 05 2018 at 03:44 |
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I'd be willing to bet Trump will be your president for another 4 years.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20491
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Posted: July 02 2018 at 07:59 |
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^^ Pizza rat..... lol.....that could be Trumps new logo....a rat eating pizza in New York....
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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progaardvark
Collaborator
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Sea of Peas
Status: Offline
Points: 48873
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Posted: July 02 2018 at 06:06 |
IVNORD wrote:
progaardvark wrote:
What you forget is that she had more of the popular vote than Trump
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What you forget is that she had more of the popular vote of those who cared to get out there and vote. Lots of people in blue states consistently stay home because of the predictability of the outcome. But why do you think the Democrats don't want to get rid of the electoral college then? What if all those people did go to the polling stations and did vote? Are you sure Hillary would get the popular vote? |
Actually, surveys have shown that the Democrats have leaned towards wanting the popular vote to determine the election of a president for the past 18 years. That won't happen because amending the Constitution is very difficult. Republicans also leaned toward that during the Obama years, but they changed their views on this after the 2016 election.
Of registered voters, 48% are registered Democrat, 44% are registered Republican, so no, there is no way to be certain that Clinton would have gotten the popular vote if everyone that was registered did so. But what I was originally trying to point out in my post was that the election was much closer than Trump supporters think it was (facts are not something they necessarily believe in).
As an aside note: I think most of us can agree that voter turnout should increase if the winner was decided on the popular vote, whether you're a Republican living in Philadelphia or a Democrat living in rural Utah, provided you actually had a pool of good candidates to pick from.
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----------
i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20522
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Posted: June 29 2018 at 15:13 |
austrianprogfan wrote:
And don't forget Pizzagate! She was involved in that! The mainstream media don't want to talk about it! So sad!
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Funny, I never think about Pizzagate when I think of Hillary, but I do think about Pizza Rat when I think about Trump.
Edited by SteveG - June 29 2018 at 15:17
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twseel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2012
Location: abroad
Status: Offline
Points: 22767
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Posted: June 29 2018 at 12:57 |
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The thing is, whenever a politician cuts a deal with a company that shows no compassion and eventually even makes them some dirty money, the politicians are quickly disqualified, while the businessmen on the other side of the deal have equal share in it and do that kind of stuff systematically with no shame. I definitely don't think it's at all okay for a politician to do that, but why would you trust a businessman more with that? Probably because they never have to pick a side in any bigger issues I guess. It's also always a cure for shady business if you just pay your officials well, so that they won't be so easily quasi-bribed by the much higher checks of big businesses (or just get a better hold on the businesses).
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: June 29 2018 at 12:37 |
twseel wrote:
Being a politician on a national level is a high paying job
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salaries_of_members_of_the_United_States_Congress
I seriously doubt if someone living in DC can become a multi-millionaire receiving a $174K salary.
Edited by IVNORD - June 29 2018 at 12:38
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twseel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2012
Location: abroad
Status: Offline
Points: 22767
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Posted: June 29 2018 at 12:14 |
Catcher10 wrote:
twseel wrote:
So that's one of the arguments, you're tired of politicians and Hillary is a politician so she's a bad choice? No matter how bad the politicians are doing, thinking that you're better off having an actual non-politician in a political position is just stupid. They may be rich elites but but at least they know very well what they're doing, and being a politician is stopping them from taking on the much more morally depleted position of a high-level businessperson.
I also still don't understand what really bad mistakes she's made to be so unpopular. |
Dude read what you wrote....
The country is tired of politicians, yes. Hillary was a bad choice because she was simply, a bad choice.
Rich elite politicians? How on earth do they become rich elites in the political pay scale???? They became rich with insider trader information using govt knowledge?  Dude, there are tons of politicians who are morally depleted also. Like husbands who cheat on their wife's that are suffering with brain cancer, that lie on TV about affairs and blue dresses that happened in the WHITE HOUSE!!! Are you kidding me......
Someone else can explain to you why she may be unpopular, I've never liked her or Bill from their Arkansas days so I am biased. |
Dude read what I wrote.... And read Easy Money's definition of a politician. Being a politician on a national level is a high paying job with many high class people (in terms of wealth and income) because it takes many hours, comes with very high responsibility and pressure and requires a high level of experience and expertise. Often the experience and expertise allows them to do business successfully outside of politics as well. An affair can happen, blame the guy for it, but it doesn't say that much about how well they can lead a country...
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: June 29 2018 at 11:23 |
Catcher10 wrote:
The Lumber dispute has been going on since the 80's, Canada sending lumber here well under market prices. Then Canada's tariffs on eggs and dairy, |
It's ok to hike tariffs when a state like Canada or the developed European countries subsidize their trade. It's done periodically and it works most of the time. But fighting China is a tough proposition as their labor costs can't be compared with ours. I don't think you would like to pay $50 for a plain mug made in the USA.
Catcher10 wrote:
On the flip side I have talked to people across the pond, if they are looking at spending $70K on a Harley Davidson bike, a $2K duty is not going to block that purchase, nor are people going to stop drinking Tenn Bourbon.....These are just nudges to get people to the negotiating table, and who better to have there than Trumpy |
Harley bikes are the tip of the iceberg. If it continues like that nobody knows where it will stop. I wouldn't have such trust in Trump's negotiating abilities. I remeber him saying some fairly dumb things on international trade years ago, not sure he changed his views since
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: June 29 2018 at 11:11 |
progaardvark wrote:
What you forget is that she had more of the popular vote than Trump
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What you forget is that she had more of the popular vote of those who cared to get out there and vote. Lots of people in blue states consistently stay home because of the predictability of the outcome. But why do you think the Democrats don't want to get rid of the electoral college then? What if all those people did go to the polling stations and did vote? Are you sure Hillary would get the popular vote?
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10367
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Posted: June 29 2018 at 10:14 |
Catcher10 wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
^ You can compare Trump to Clinton or the devil himself and it won't change who Trump is, a sleazy dishonest crude immoral pig, and yes, since he holds political office and has run for that office at least three times or more, he is most definitely a politician. Before that he was just a sleazy lying immoral filthy rich ultra-elite business man.
Definition of politician:
A person who is professionally involved in politics, especially as a holder of an elected office.
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I'm not comparing Trump to Clinton or the devil. Did you read what I wrote? I defended Hillary saying she is not the devil. All your descriptors about Trump are the same descriptors of the Clinton gang, so we agree to agree.....I'm good. Thanks Champ! |
No, we don't agree. You voted for that sleaze bag, and I didn't vote for him, or Clinton for that matter.
Edited by Easy Money - June 29 2018 at 10:25
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The American Politics Thread
