S.Wilson: "Rap now is more innovative than Rock"

I'll take RTJ over modern prog bands any day of the week.

lazland wrote: I absolutely loathe hip hop. Always have, always will This is merely a publicity puff interview, and means absolutely nothing. Most so-called MOBO stuff is derivative sh*te.

Agree 100% with every thing Laz stated above.

Firstly - What is a "Hip-Hop?" 

Yeah - I like my prog to be re-engineered and even more bombastic than that of the seventies....Flower Kings is a great example....

Prog-jester wrote: Junges wrote: Huh, Hip-hop... it's also 70's. Well I doubt you even care, but the difference between, say, Africa Bambaataa and Young Thug is enormous. But when you compare, dunno, Univers Zero and Far Corner it's like there wasn't a 30-yrs gap between them. Avant/RIO prog is one of the most stale and predictable forms of "progressive" music, dare I say. Junges wrote: You are confusing progressive (the genre) with progressive (the word). This confusion is rather new. Believe me, it's not. Even though I'm not present here for every minute of my 12 years-as-a-PA-user, I'd stumbled upon the "prog = genre vs. progressive = ideas/bands" discussions many times before. It's just sad that progressive rock nowadays (which was TRULY progressive genre of pop music once) is so much regressive and retro, despite producing numerous good bands

Sorry to jump in here but I agree with almost everything you said Igor. I just think it's a disservice to brand new experimental bands as prog. It's like advertising a movie to men and calling it a romantic drama. It just isn't attractive to most people.
And if we continue to stretch the meaning of prog rock it eventually loses it's meaning (it's already getting there imo). There are many interesting rock bands out there that sound experimental but let's just leave it at the 'experimental' tag. That way they've got a shot at actually making it.
Oh and before I forget: it wouldn't surprise me if something like 90% of PA's members would flee to the mountains upon hearing the new kids on the experimental block. Prog fans are just as picky as the rest of the music loving world.

Prog-jester wrote: Junges wrote: Huh, Hip-hop... it's also 70's. Well I doubt you even care, but the difference between, say, Africa Bambaataa and Young Thug is enormous. But when you compare, dunno, Univers Zero and Far Corner it's like there wasn't a 30-yrs gap between them. Avant/RIO prog is one of the most stale and predictable forms of "progressive" music, dare I say. Junges wrote: You are confusing progressive (the genre) with progressive (the word). This confusion is rather new. Believe me, it's not. Even though I'm not present here for every minute of my 12 years-as-a-PA-user, I'd stumbled upon the "prog = genre vs. progressive = ideas/bands" discussions many times before. It's just sad that progressive rock nowadays (which was TRULY progressive genre of pop music once) is so much regressive and retro, despite producing numerous good bands

Edited by Junges - July 31 2017 at 15:48

Junges wrote: Atavachron wrote: ^ They don't have to innovate to be considered good (I think of AC/DC).   But a genre does have to move forward, or at least move to continue to develop and, in a way, live.   So it's a little surprising when prog fans take issue with that point.   Music styles are like certain shark species: if they're not moving in a forward direction, they stagnate and can die I don't know of any music genre that didn't continue to develop and died solely because of lack of innovation.

When I say "died", I don't mean abolished, I mean nothing new or important.  And there are certainly styles that have suffered that while still maintaining a moderate following;  jazz, folk, and yes, rock 'n roll to name a few. 

^ No, it isn't subjective unless one means for the individual experience.   Objectively I do believe musics, or a music, does, at a point, slow in expansion & augmentation and does in fact come to a developmental end.  "Rock & roll will never die" is not the same as "Rock & roll will never stop evolving and being a vital music that impacts other musics".   And frankly since the 90s, that honor goes to Hip hop (which many don't fully realize because they either don't listen to Hip hop or haven't been impressed by what they have heard).

EPMD

^ Who said it's only 25 years old?   On the other hand, to say Rap as a fully formed musical style existed any earlier than about 1975 is folly.   Unless one means Spoken Word or poetry slams.  

It is black American music that evolved very much in the same way rock 'n roll did: out of sheer necessity and lack of formal musical training or expensive equipment.   Necessity is the mother of invention and Rap/Hip hop is no better example.   Of course it helped when people began to really dig it, man.

As someone who just left prog behind and embraced the pop side of music, isn't he embracing the very thing he's criticizing? True hip hop has elements of innovation as i'm a fan myself but when it comes to melodic complexity it doesn't hold a candle to jazz, classical and OF COURSE prog :)