Magma vs Van der Graaf Generator

I'm not really sure on what level we decide versus. I think lyrically Magma kind of had a novelty one-off concept album idea that was quite decent on the first album then dragged it out forever like it was some kind of brilliant plan to the onanistic delight of their wilfully adoring fans. At their best they have a gloomy, crashing operatic magnificence quite unlike anything else you will hear. I'm particularly fond of the debut.

Van Der Graaf Generator are blessed with some of the most impressionistic and striking lyrics in progressive rock, a phenomenal vocalist and a fascinating four-man dynamic (the power-chording double-saxophone or wandering flutes offset against Hugh Banton's serpentine counterpoint is a thing unto itself) and I think individually underestimated musicians. Hammill's musical ideas are very warm, natural, exploratory and human and I think he's almost without a doubt the best solo singer-songwriter in the sphere of progressive music (maybe Barrett also stands out). Can't go wrong with the classic period (H to He through to Still Life) but many of the bits outside of that are still very interesting (The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome under Van Der Graaf stands out).

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Not to beat a dead horse but yea, it’s probably best to stay away especially during meditation.  I however, by association, had to confront it.  Even though I had a general idea of what the symbol was supposed to represent it still perturbed me in a negative fashion when I saw it.

Not only did my wife’s friend have them in her apartment but her parents proudly displayed the insignia all over their house.  These were the nicest people I’ve ever met but I just felt a bit strange in their home.   They even had a swastika door mat.  Which is kind of strange in its own right.  If the symbol signifies the embodiment of God as creation why would you want to swipe the soles of your shoes and trample on it?  Ah well, maybe that’s another personal hang up I need to get over.

I don’t doubt you; I myself have had a few experiences and hold a personal relationship with the Divine.

Wish you all the best on your progress and endeavors.  You may want to consider the music of Jon Anderson and George Harrison; I don’t think there are qualms as to where they stand.  A worthy song that comes to mind is - I’ll Find My Way Home by Jon and Vangelis.  Also, My Sweet Lord by George Harrison.

tongue in cheek.. and agree fully.  Meditation helped me survive the last few years of a very bad marriage and pick up the pieces to finally move forward to where I am now..... booze wouldn't have got me out of that marriage.. much less flipped my life 180 to where I am today. If only I had discoverdd Meditation much earlier than I did. Oh well.. that is life isn't it.  

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Yea, that’s a bit unnerving.  In that scenario I wonder why no one bothered to ask any questions the find out where that person’s head is really at.  Is it for some sort of inspiration?  Is it some kind of commemoration?  Is it to throw darts at?  I’d probably start with, yo dude, what the f**k is up with that?  Then listen to the response and take it to the next question.   Don’t judge a book by its cover

What’s not funny but sad is the way man perverts everything.   Man has corrupted symbols, figures, teachings of great masters, religions, etc.   The concept of god has become so perverted that if you concede to the distortions then as a rational person it would be sensible to stay away.   You have to go beyond man’s perversions and try to perceive things for what they actually represent.

CosmicVibration wrote: YESESIS wrote:

CosmicVibration wrote: YESESIS wrote: CosmicVibration wrote: I've been meditating for about 30 years now.  I started strictly for health, stamina and martial art power. After the first 10 years my objective changed to get closer to reality, to lift the veil of delusion, aka achieve enlightenment. I did have a few breakthroughs and maybe in a couple hundred years I’ll attain my objective. They say that the hardest thing to do in the world is to still the mind.  I would concur… “Be still and know that I am God” Wow, you're more spiritual than I am. Yeah I used to try to completely 'still my mind' but eventually gave up lol. So now I just do deep diaphragmatic breathing, and like go through and 'let go' of all the muscles in my body.. until I'm VERY relaxed, and then I start giving myself affirmations like "I am a relaxed person, that is my normal state." Stuff like that. But yeah man, sounds like you've gotten a lot further than I did.. so thanks for sharing.  I think the one main sign a person can use to gauge their spiritual progress is the degree and depth of their internal joy that they feel.  Also, that the ecstatic blissful state remains unshaken under any and all circumstances.  I for one, have a long way to go, the universe seems to be testing me all the time. It doesn’t seem that you gave up trying…  If you’re focusing on your breathing and affirmation while trying to exclude any other thoughts from entering the mind you’re practicing to still it.  Stilling or clearing the mind doesn’t mean that you put yourself in a thoughtless stupor.  It’s a complete mental focus on the present moment in which random thoughts do not enter the mind.

CosmicVibration wrote: I've been meditating for about 30 years now.  I started strictly for health, stamina and martial art power. After the first 10 years my objective changed to get closer to reality, to lift the veil of delusion, aka achieve enlightenment. I did have a few breakthroughs and maybe in a couple hundred years I’ll attain my objective. They say that the hardest thing to do in the world is to still the mind.  I would concur… “Be still and know that I am God”

CosmicVibration wrote: That link was compliments of Mr. Logan who originally posted it.  I thank him as it expanded on what I already knew about the band and I had fun reading it.  At least for me,  it solidified the feeling I got from just listening to the music and not really knowing what they were singing about.  Not sure how I would feel if Vander really was deceptively dark and evil.  I would probably just be confused on why his exquisite music conveys such beauty for me.  I would still continue to listen to it, perhaps not as much though.  Anyway it’s not about me, you have to do what feels right and is healthy for you. You mentioned you meditate to music.  I don’t know what your goal or goals are and there are thousands of meditation techniques.   If it’s for spiritual development it’s wiser and faster to focus your concentration on turning your senses inward versus outward. However, with a razor sharp focus on anything, including music, one can put himself in a meditative state.   Elite athletes call this the “zone”  and when questioned about it they all convey the same message.  It’s as if time stood still or slowed down and there was no thought process involved.  Rather than a thinker and a doer it just happens in a thoughtless state as a casual observer. Here’s an excellent piece from Hoyry Kone that you may enjoy to fully tune into.

micky wrote: Logan wrote: It's very different from Rosemary's Baby. The Boys from Brazil is a great novel, I think. But of course that wasn't my point. To each his or her own, judge not lest ye be judged etc. I do appreciate your presence here, glad you take the time to converse, and I'm thankful to you for the book recommendation. In the words of my Prime Minister, sunny ways, my friend, sunny ways. And I'm hardly the best of people that's for sure, but I try, mostly for my family. I've been posting at another forum and you might be shocked at how brutal, rude and argumentative the debates can be. I think Micky would like it (haha, just kidding, or am I?). I like the more positive and friendly atmosphere here -- little drama, and people coming together as friends. A good place to let one's hair down, at least the people here who have hair. captcha'd... long post gone. In short.. yeah...  if one judged me on the contents of my bookshelves one would have me pegged as a bed sheet wearing goose stepping Trump voting Moron.  It is history however...  one doesn't have to admire or have any partcular affinity for the subject to have a a strong passionate interest in it. I got many questions from friends about the subject of my book,  a real character who was militantly pro slavery and part of the infamous Sumner affair in Congress.  It wasn't that I agreed with him that made me so passionately interested in telling his story.. it was he was so alien to me even if he was one of the most capable and effective battlefield commanders this country ever produced. and yeah.. this forum has been completely emasculated in terms of conflict and drama from the good old days and that is both a good thing and bad thing. Besides this is a music site.. what was there really to get upset about? People committed aural suicide by pumping all kinds of VDGG, Neo and SWilson sh*t into their ears and brains? nah.   I do enjoy a good scrap and yeah, there are some really rough ones out there. Come ready and informed or leave extremely butt sore.  None in my experience are as bad as history forums.

I love VdGG, especially for the Least We Can Do is Wave to Each Other, but to each his or her own. It's definitely not as scrappy here as it used to be, which can make it a lot less invigorating. I like the idea of having your notions challenged, but in balance, I generally prefer when it's done in a reasonably respectful to the person manner. That said, I wouldn't expect people to respect my opinions, as I've never bought into this sort of postmodernist idea that all opinions are equal... An informed opinion is better than an ill-informed one, and scientific objectivity has merit.

History forums would be a nightmare for me, but also a learning experience. It's great to learn from your betters, and I try not to take it too hard when people rip what I thought were logical conclusions to shreds. At the forum I've been visiting you'd be better be armed with well-researched knowledge and know your logical fallacies, and manage to streamline your thoughts (often the more you say the more there is to find fault with). That said, it's fun. Here you probably wouldn't have someone welcoming you in your introduction thread with telling you that at the forum the regulars kick the crap out of each other, and then beat the crap out of the newbies until the leave or become regulars, and then go back to kicking the crap out of each other again. Or go all Conan the Barbarian on your derriere, and absolutely delight in it, elsewhere. And don't use self-deprecation, they will run with it to really deprecate you. It's a bit too humorless a place for me though, and I'd rather dialectic than a debate, unless you consider trying to break people and shatter all confidence funny. It's not a hard place to be with the right attitude, though, and I need a site to prime my powers of logic, and I do want to improve my debating skills, thicken my skin, and improve my noodle which has become even soggier than my diapers. And I do like that no subjects are sacrosanct, and you will stand or fall on the merits of your reasoning and accuracy.

That said, I'm probably giving them way too much credit. :)   And if it ever gets to be too much, I can always post here for a more cuddly environment, not that I will post much there. I prefer talking about politics, ethics, science etc. in person, but writing about it is useful to hone your skills at argumentation.

Really I'm a wimp. I'm even nervous to enter the American Politics thread at this site. I do wish we had a lot more discussion about non-music stuff here.