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Should AOR bands be listed PA's discography?

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SteveG View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 13 2017 at 04:16
Styx, Journey and Asia? In PA? What is prog related about the two former bands and should they even be listed in PA's discography? Asia may be related by musicians, but is the music prog? Nay, Nay. What do you say?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2017 at 04:30
it's been told repeatedly that prog-related is not prog. Nobody is saying that these three bands are progressive rock bands. 
I don't mind any of them being here on PA. 

http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=38

very nicely explained here :)


Edited by Cristi - September 13 2017 at 16:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2017 at 05:13
Styx and Journey, in their early years, contain prog elements. I don't know enough about Asia to know one way or the other
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingsnake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2017 at 05:26
All bands that are on Progarchives are AOR bands, except for the jazz-acts.
AOR is a radio-format.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2017 at 05:33
^ by AOR, people usually mean melodic rock/hard rock these days, which all three bands mentioned above are. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingsnake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2017 at 05:49
Well that's what happens to terms.
They lose meaning.

Like progressive rock. Some melodic rock bands are far more progressive than progrock bands.
But I love discussing the melodic rock-side of progrock, aswell as the difficult jazzfusion experimental side of progrock.

If you ask me, there should be even more wonderful melodic rockbands on the site. But I'm not the one to decide.

On the other hand, why does it bother you so much?
I think there are a million bands on the site, that are open for discussion (Miles Davies, Metallica, Beatles). But the more the merrier :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2017 at 06:05
^ Metallica was an influence on progressive metal and so was Iron Maiden. That's why they are here under prog-related.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2017 at 06:08
I don't know. I could see all three of them in Crossover too. There is a gray area between Crossover and Prog Related, as there are between a lot of other subgenres. I lean more towards inclusive rather than exclusive.
The other thing that bugs me about these borderline bands, is that I know, given the right conditions, they could have pulled off a good, if not great, prog album at some point in their careers. Either conflicting band personalities, record companies, or the desire to make a lot of money (and who can argue with that?) always seemed to prevent this from happening.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2017 at 06:14
^ Journey started as progressive rock band, their music with Rollie on vocals was a mix of hard rock, fusion and blues. 
Styx had hints of prog all throughout the 70s.
Asia came very close with Aura. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kepler62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2017 at 06:18
If you ask me progressive rock ended around 1974-78 if you want to stretch it. Mr Fripp's timing was spot on. There's a lot of music outside the realm of progressive rock that I like including Journey and Styx. I woukl say that a good 75% of the bands listed here don't even fit remotely into the mold of progressive rock. It belonged to an era. This site is very misleading with all the entries in the database. Best site I came across back in the early days of the internet was Vintage Prog Dot Com. Although now no longer maintained the creator of the site has left it up. It encompasses what progressive rock was all about. 

Edited by Kepler62 - September 13 2017 at 06:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingsnake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2017 at 06:21
'AOR' bands don't pull off a lot of money these days.

Boston / Foreigner -influenced music sells squat.
It's all for the love of the music these days, not the big bucks.

On a sidenote; most top-guitarists are melodic rock-guitarists (Neil Schon, Steve Luckather, Van Halen, etc. etc.)
Apparently the best way to play a fiery solo is via a pop/rock -song instead of endless jamming.
Same goes for keyboardists and drummers.
There's just not a lot of experimentation and groundbreaking songwriting in melodic music. But my ears like it a lot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2017 at 06:25
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

^ Journey started as progressive rock band, their music with Rollie on vocals was a mix of hard rock, fusion and blues. 
Styx had hints of prog all throughout the 70s.
Asia came very close with Aura. 
Exactly my thoughts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2017 at 08:47
well I hate Journey Styx Foreigner Boston etc---can't take the whole vibe of AOR music ---but some of Asia did seem to be ok with me--could be the artistry of Howe reinventing his sound for this band. But I suppose it's ok with me if those bands are on here. To me AOR means arena rock with catchy popular  tunes. And the bands I first mentioned all had hit catchy tunes. Good prog shouldn't;t be hit catchy tunes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2017 at 09:31
Clearly they shouldn't be. 
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Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lostrom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2017 at 13:51
AOR is as much prog as Vikingarna.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2017 at 14:24
I think that Cristi has covered the important bases.

I don't know any of them that well; I tend to steer clear of bands commonly classified as AOR (i.e. melodic/ arena rock).

That said, the musical relation to Prog tends to be more important to me than the musicians' band relation in Prog Related. But the more PR criteria a band/ musician fits the easier it is to make a case to get into the category, and that includes having a history working with acts deemed Prog.

Incidentally, to my ears, there is Prog in the Prog-Related category, and it is not really a non-Prog category to me so much as a less prog, or less proggy, category. I know some hate it, but I love that word proggy, by the way.

We tend to judge by the album, and if a band generally recognised as AOR made a Prog or semi-Prog album then that's the album we judge the most.

Prog Related is a very mixed bag, and having been in Prog bands is not enough to get you in (at least not these days -- in the early days bands were included that would probably not pass muster now, and other ones didn't pass muster that did later since we expanded the parameters). There's a reason why, say, Phil Collins is not in Prog Related and that has to do with the music he has created.

So to answer the question more directly, I think that absolutely AOR bands should be listed in PA provided that they made music/ albums that is/ are deemed appropriate for the category. And that doesn't mean that the majority of their music needs to be appropriate either (I rather wish that we didn't have the complete discography policy, although I see its benefits).

Edited by Logan - September 13 2017 at 14:31
"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views" (Doctor Who - The Face of Evil, Jan 22, 1977).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2017 at 21:01
No, I don't think they should be on PA simply by virtue of being AOR. There're too many of them. Some are straight out Prog. Others are not. I see some strange definitions of AOR here. It has nothing to do with being melodic. AOR stands for Album Oriented Rock, and refers to a historical change in which bands began to emphasize album releases over singles. Frank Zappa was AOR. Led Zeppelin was AOR.


Hmm...perhaps PA should list Mp3 Oriented Bands.




Edited by HackettFan - September 13 2017 at 21:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stool Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2017 at 00:47
And perhaps Afrofuturism should be made a subgenre too, and we can finally add Sun Ra, Funkadelic, Rammellzee, Lee Scratch Perry, et blimmin' cetera.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2017 at 03:59
Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

All bands that are on Progarchives are AOR bands, except for the jazz-acts.
AOR is a radio-format.

Indeed--  I think it stands for Anal Oriented Retention .


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2017 at 08:23
AOR for me always meant easy to listen to hit records that were not pop specifically maybe because they were longer than a perfect 3 min hit song ----like Dancing in the streets---I want to know were love is ---is an example---Don't stop Believing---Rosanna ---another one---my little sisters liked this kind of music lol---this is not Revealing science of god----which I liked---whatever your definition I know it when I hear it and can take it or leave it
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