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Dellinger
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Posted: January 04 2018 at 20:50 |
Mortte wrote:
^Do you like any album old band or artist has made in itīs older days? | The question was not for me, but at the top of my head, yeah, Magnification, as you already mentioned is nice enough... and from the Yes camp, Out There from Rick Wakeman is indeed a great one too. From King Crimson, The Power to Believe. From Pink Floyd, The Division Bell. From Mike Oldfield, Return to Ommadawn and Songs from Distant Earth (many would put Amarok there too, perhaps above those ones).
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dr prog
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Posted: January 04 2018 at 21:54 |
Mortte wrote:
^Do you like any album old band or artist has made in itīs older days? |
I like the occasional song by old bands about 20 years ago. But classic albums were done in the 70s. The quality of the music after 1982 isn't the same. It ranges from a bad drum sound to weaker compositions in general from 1983-2017
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Mortte
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Posted: January 04 2018 at 23:42 |
dr prog wrote:
Mortte wrote:
^Do you like any album old band or artist has made in itīs older days? |
I like the occasional song by old bands about 20 years ago. But classic albums were done in the 70s. The quality of the music after 1982 isn't the same. It ranges from a bad drum sound to weaker compositions in general from 1983-2017 |
Mostly I agree with you. But I am glad there are exceptions. Tom Waits started to make his greatest albums in 1983, when released Swordfishtrombones. You propably donīt like him at all, but I think also sounds in his albums changed even better. Then there is John Parish, who made his first solo album with PJ and have been releasing few really great, also great sounding solos that just are really underrated. Never been in that much his first band Automatic Dlamini. And there are also Nick Cave, whose quality of albums hasnīt lowen, specially Push the sky Away is one of his best.
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Mortte
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Posted: January 04 2018 at 23:52 |
Dellinger wrote:
Mortte wrote:
^Do you like any album old band or artist has made in itīs older days? |
The question was not for me, but at the top of my head, yeah, Magnification, as you already mentioned is nice enough... and from the Yes camp, Out There from Rick Wakeman is indeed a great one too. From King Crimson, The Power to Believe. From Pink Floyd, The Division Bell. From Mike Oldfield, Return to Ommadawn and Songs from Distant Earth (many would put Amarok there too, perhaps above those ones). |
Division Bell was an album to me that I didnīt listen at all when it came. I thought then "Take it Back" is miserable AOR-song and not like even "High Hopes" because I thought itīs solo is almost straight copy from "Welcome To the Machine"-solo. But some years after itīs release somebody put it while we are traveling in car and then I really liked Cluster One. Now I think those both non-Waters albums are ok although they not rise even close to the greatest moments of Floyd.
Havenīt yet heard Return to Ommadown, just noticed it has become to youtube, I think I will listen it first this morning.
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Dellinger
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Posted: January 05 2018 at 22:15 |
Mortte wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
Mortte wrote:
^Do you like any album old band or artist has made in itīs older days? |
The question was not for me, but at the top of my head, yeah, Magnification, as you already mentioned is nice enough... and from the Yes camp, Out There from Rick Wakeman is indeed a great one too. From King Crimson, The Power to Believe. From Pink Floyd, The Division Bell. From Mike Oldfield, Return to Ommadawn and Songs from Distant Earth (many would put Amarok there too, perhaps above those ones). | Division Bell was an album to me that I didnīt listen at all when it came. I thought then "Take it Back" is miserable AOR-song and not like even "High Hopes" because I thought itīs solo is almost straight copy from "Welcome To the Machine"-solo. But some years after itīs release somebody put it while we are traveling in car and then I really liked Cluster One. Now I think those both non-Waters albums are ok although they not rise even close to the greatest moments of Floyd.
Havenīt yet heard Return to Ommadown, just noticed it has become to youtube, I think I will listen it first this morning. | I was really surprised by Return to Ommadawn. If you put someone who is just starting to know Oldfield and show him his first 4 albums, and include this one as if it were one of his 70's albums, I don't think he could notice that it isn't so.
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Mortte
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Posted: January 05 2018 at 23:34 |
Dellinger wrote:
I was really surprised by Return to Ommadawn. If you put someone who is just starting to know Oldfield and show him his first 4 albums, and include this one as if it were one of his 70's albums, I don't think he could notice that it isn't so. |
I listened it first time yesterday and I have to say there are parts you can hear itīs from today. And those are that parts that I wasnīt really fond of (they are mostly drum parts). But yes, mostly itīs really great, really love those pipe organs, also what picture I have from the later Tubular Bells versions (going to listen them too some of these days) I think he has succeed in this new Ommadown much better. Going to listen it again.
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ReactioninG
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Posted: January 06 2018 at 15:59 |
Yes could have learned lyrics and mood from King Crimson and possibly lead vocalist approach. Lake, Wetton and Belew were so much better than Anderson. I don't always understand what Yes is getting at with their music, and I don't think they do either. It's maybe better than King Crimson but other than elements in the brilliant Trevor Horn's songs I don't pick up much meaning, it's just a bag of sonic fun. In The Court of the Crimson King is soul shaking and there are some interesting 80s ideas from Belew. Yes is like a Yes album cover, a floating island.... It's what gives Genesis the edge in that match up, by the way. Peter Gabriel was surreal but it was more grounded in human experiences and more moving in that way.
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Dellinger
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Posted: January 06 2018 at 23:13 |
Mortte wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
I was really surprised by Return to Ommadawn. If you put someone who is just starting to know Oldfield and show him his first 4 albums, and include this one as if it were one of his 70's albums, I don't think he could notice that it isn't so. | I listened it first time yesterday and I have to say there are parts you can hear itīs from today. And those are that parts that I wasnīt really fond of (they are mostly drum parts). But yes, mostly itīs really great, really love those pipe organs, also what picture I have from the later Tubular Bells versions (going to listen them too some of these days) I think he has succeed in this new Ommadown much better. Going to listen it again. | I have only heard Tubular Bells 2, not the third one, but I was rather disappointed by that second one. That one seemed to be trying to create an equivalent of each part of the first one once again, but each and every part sounded less inspired, like just a bad immitation (except for a few very nice pieces). On return to Ommadawn he rather seemed to try and capture the mood again, but with entirely new music, not trying to copy the first one again.
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Dellinger
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Posted: January 06 2018 at 23:18 |
ReactioninG wrote:
Yes could have learned lyrics and mood from King Crimson and possibly lead vocalist approach. Lake, Wetton and Belew were so much better than Anderson. I don't always understand what Yes is getting at with their music, and I don't think they do either. It's maybe better than King Crimson but other than elements in the brilliant Trevor Horn's songs I don't pick up much meaning, it's just a bag of sonic fun. In The Court of the Crimson King is soul shaking and there are some interesting 80s ideas from Belew. Yes is like a Yes album cover, a floating island.... It's what gives Genesis the edge in that match up, by the way. Peter Gabriel was surreal but it was more grounded in human experiences and more moving in that way.
| For me the vocals are much better with Yes than King Crimson (or Genesis for that matter). Anderson is just one of my favourite singers, while the only I really like a lot from Crimson is Lake, and that's only when he is in the right track (like Epitaph, Court, and Poseidon). Lyrics, yeah, I guess Yes could have done better, but they actually suit the music nicely and I'm not sure they could have been improved within that context. Besides, many of the times the lyrics were not suposed to make much sense, Anderson has said that the words themselves were meant to be part of the music too... because of their sound, not their meaning.
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Mortte
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Posted: January 06 2018 at 23:33 |
Dellinger wrote:
ReactioninG wrote:
Yes could have learned lyrics and mood from King Crimson and possibly lead vocalist approach. Lake, Wetton and Belew were so much better than Anderson. I don't always understand what Yes is getting at with their music, and I don't think they do either. It's maybe better than King Crimson but other than elements in the brilliant Trevor Horn's songs I don't pick up much meaning, it's just a bag of sonic fun. In The Court of the Crimson King is soul shaking and there are some interesting 80s ideas from Belew. Yes is like a Yes album cover, a floating island.... It's what gives Genesis the edge in that match up, by the way. Peter Gabriel was surreal but it was more grounded in human experiences and more moving in that way.
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For me the vocals are much better with Yes than King Crimson (or Genesis for that matter). Anderson is just one of my favourite singers, while the only I really like a lot from Crimson is Lake, and that's only when he is in the right track (like Epitaph, Court, and Poseidon). Lyrics, yeah, I guess Yes could have done better, but they actually suit the music nicely and I'm not sure they could have been improved within that context. Besides, many of the times the lyrics were not suposed to make much sense, Anderson has said that the words themselves were meant to be part of the music too... because of their sound, not their meaning. |
Anderson is of course his own kind, but I really love both Lake & Wetton. Itīs great the present vocalist Jakko Jakszyk sounds really much Greg Lake. But on the other hand I have liked all KC vocalists, even Gordon Haskell.
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Mortte
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Posted: January 06 2018 at 23:34 |
And Peter Gabriel is also one of my big favourite vocalists.
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Posted: January 07 2018 at 03:24 |
Peter Gabriel and Jon Anderson are the best vocally/lyrically in my genuine opinion. They are like apples and oranges, though. Both 1st place voices and writers of a different flavor.
I've never put precedence on the vocal work for King Crimson. I will say I enjoy Adrian as front man more so than any other, though (TAAAALK?! IT'S AAALLL TAAAAALK... )
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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HemispheresOfXanadu
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Posted: January 07 2018 at 13:48 |
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
Peter Gabriel and Jon Anderson are the best vocally/lyrically in my genuine opinion. They are like apples and oranges, though. Both 1st place voices and writers of a different flavor.
I've never put precedence on the vocal work for King Crimson. I will say I enjoy Adrian as front man more so than any other, though (TAAAALK?! IT'S AAALLL TAAAAALK... ) |
I LIKE IT.
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Dellinger
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Posted: January 07 2018 at 20:51 |
Mortte wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
ReactioninG wrote:
Yes could have learned lyrics and mood from King Crimson and possibly lead vocalist approach. Lake, Wetton and Belew were so much better than Anderson. I don't always understand what Yes is getting at with their music, and I don't think they do either. It's maybe better than King Crimson but other than elements in the brilliant Trevor Horn's songs I don't pick up much meaning, it's just a bag of sonic fun. In The Court of the Crimson King is soul shaking and there are some interesting 80s ideas from Belew. Yes is like a Yes album cover, a floating island.... It's what gives Genesis the edge in that match up, by the way. Peter Gabriel was surreal but it was more grounded in human experiences and more moving in that way.
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For me the vocals are much better with Yes than King Crimson (or Genesis for that matter). Anderson is just one of my favourite singers, while the only I really like a lot from Crimson is Lake, and that's only when he is in the right track (like Epitaph, Court, and Poseidon). Lyrics, yeah, I guess Yes could have done better, but they actually suit the music nicely and I'm not sure they could have been improved within that context. Besides, many of the times the lyrics were not suposed to make much sense, Anderson has said that the words themselves were meant to be part of the music too... because of their sound, not their meaning. | Anderson is of course his own kind, but I really love both Lake & Wetton. Itīs great the present vocalist Jakko Jakszyk sounds really much Greg Lake. But on the other hand I have liked all KC vocalists, even Gordon Haskell. | I love Lake as well, though he can become somewhat annoying at times (like Schizoid Man)... the ones I love most are the ones I already mentioned, and I wish he had done more of that sort of singing later on. Wetton I never really liked so much, at least not in the 70's. I love the work Crimson did with him, but not his singing... actually, I guess it's greatly because of him that I couldn't really get into UK. Somewhat his singing got better with Asia (though the music wan, of course, nowhere near the same brilliance), at least on studio. Strangely enough, some of the few Lake songs I have heard him sing sound very nice (Schizoid Man with Crimson themselves, and Court with Asia and Steve Hackett)... and some songs I heard from him from Gabriel's Genesis sound very nice too (particularly I was never a fan of Watcher of the Skies, but the version with Wetton singing is much warmer and made me love the song). Jakko I think has been doing a very nice job with Crimson, and though mostly he sings everything very well, including Lake's parts, I wouldn't really say he sounds very similar to him. And particularly "Epitaph" he just can't do right.
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Mortte
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Posted: January 07 2018 at 22:37 |
And I have been thinking vocalists are very important to me (I think in todayīs music there are not many great singers). It seems many here are much more critical than I.
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Posted: January 08 2018 at 02:32 |
HemispheresOfXanadu wrote:
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
Peter Gabriel and Jon Anderson are the best vocally/lyrically in my genuine opinion. They are like apples and oranges, though. Both 1st place voices and writers of a different flavor.
I've never put precedence on the vocal work for King Crimson. I will say I enjoy Adrian as front man more so than any other, though (TAAAALK?! IT'S AAALLL TAAAAALK... ) | I LIKE IT. |
BICKER BICKER BICKER
I'm like a walking VH1 pop up video dude. I'm glad people get my lyrical outbursts, lmao.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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someone_else
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Posted: January 08 2018 at 03:05 |
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
Peter Gabriel and Jon Anderson are the best vocally/lyrically in my genuine opinion. They are like apples and oranges, though. Both 1st place voices and writers of a different flavor. |
Peter Gabriel and Jon Anderson are the two archetypes of prog vocalists. But classifying Jon Anderson among "the best lyrically" makes me laugh, cringe, or thinking that Jon and Ian are mixed up, depending on my mood .
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Posted: January 08 2018 at 03:39 |
someone_else wrote:
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
Peter Gabriel and Jon Anderson are the best vocally/lyrically in my genuine opinion. They are like apples and oranges, though. Both 1st place voices and writers of a different flavor. |
Peter Gabriel and Jon Anderson are the two archetypes of prog vocalists. But classifying Jon Anderson among "the best lyrically" makes me laugh, cringe, or thinking that Jon and Ian are mixed up, depending on my mood . |
When I say I think Anderson is lyrically best, that's obviously just my opinion. I enjoy the ambiguous poetry on Close, Tales, and Relayer. It's like he's talking about 10 things at once all the time, and your frame of reference almost can't be wrong lol.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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dr prog
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Posted: January 08 2018 at 14:59 |
So what could these bands learn from each other 50 years on? Not much
Edited by dr prog - January 08 2018 at 14:59
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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