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Prog Metal & Symphonic Prog

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mlkpad14 View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 29 2018 at 16:55
In modern prog, sometimes I feel as if the line between symphonic prog and prog metal is blurred. Do any of you agree?

(today I listened to "The Suffering Joy" by Magic Pie, "Messages from Afar: First Contact" by Karfagen, "Quiet World" by Native Construct, and "Coma Ecliptic" by Between the Buried and Me)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2018 at 17:00
I hope not. Never got into Prog Metal, no matter how much and how many times I've tried. Symphonic prog on the other hand, is quite enjoyable to my ears.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2018 at 17:55
Symphony X is the sweet spot for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlkpad14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2018 at 19:28
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Symphony X is the sweet spot for me.

Symphony X is great, but they are undoubtedly prog metal. On the other hand, we have got Spock's Beard... (which is an absolutely awesome band, but this is what I am trying to get at) 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2018 at 19:31
I think one of the first ones to blur the distinction was Arena on the immortal? album and then also White Willow with storm season. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2018 at 20:52
Since Dream Theater were the ones that popularised Prog Metal, I guess that the symphonic element was there from the beginning. At least to my ears, the prog elements Dream Theater put into their mix with metal were Symphonic prog itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2018 at 21:12
Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

I hope not. Never got into Prog Metal, no matter how much and how many times I've tried. Symphonic prog on the other hand, is quite enjoyable to my ears.

Same with me---I like some bits of prog metal but a whole album of it is more than I can take.Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2018 at 02:35
Riverside (and Second Life Syndrome in particular) is a perfect example of prog metal and symphonic prog blending, and the result is magic.

But in the 70s bands like Uriah Heep and Deep Purple straddled that border too. Some called them prog, others hard rock, others metal. Different songs fitted all three categories.

I think we worry too much about genres. Just enjoy the music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2018 at 02:51
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

I think we worry too much about genres. Just enjoy the music.

Quoted for truth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2018 at 03:39
the guitarist in Magic Pie is highly influenced by John Petrucci
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2018 at 05:41
Well, it only makes sense that these two subgenres mix it up every now and then. A lot of the musicians that are associated with one or the other have been influenced by past bands in one or the other. Same thing with jazz rock/fusion. Elements of that can be heard in both symphonic prog and prog metal. It's called musical diversity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2018 at 05:56
Most vanilla prog metal bands sound exactly like symph prog to these ears. The gear and production seems to be the only update imo. The mo feels and sounds almost exactly the same.
Take any DT album and imagine all the keyboards being old school analogue. Remove the distortion and various other contemporary effects and pedals. Picture all of this played live in the studio with but a simple mic placement instead of the sterile lab conditions they normally go for. Bam and you've got a symph prog album right down to the t.
You can make the same case with loads of other prog metal bands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlkpad14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2018 at 06:13
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Most vanilla prog metal bands sound exactly like symph prog to these ears. The gear and production seems to be the only update imo. The mo feels and sounds almost exactly the same.
Take any DT album and imagine all the keyboards being old school analogue. Remove the distortion and various other contemporary effects and pedals. Picture all of this played live in the studio with but a simple mic placement instead of the sterile lab conditions they normally go for. Bam and you've got a symph prog album right down to the t.
You can make the same case with loads of other prog metal bands.

Exactly, so it is not just me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlkpad14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2018 at 06:16
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

I think we worry too much about genres. Just enjoy the music.

Quoted for truth.

In some cases, yes, but genres signify a certain style of music... the way people play it, the inspiration, the crowd who's listening... Organization is key in such a huge world of music!

Can you imagine two people talking about good "music"... "Yo, I just acquired that new Beastie Boys release!"... "Really, well I have been getting into John Coltrane!" LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2018 at 06:21
Nope, but then again this particular trade does restrict itself to what I'd call vanilla prog metal. The first wave of prog metal if you will. It is still going strong though with bands such as Haken carrying the torch onwards.
Sorta like symph prog with metal riffs, updated keyboard sounds and the heroic Bruce Dickinson-like vocals to boot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2018 at 06:27
Originally posted by mlkpad14 mlkpad14 wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

I think we worry too much about genres. Just enjoy the music.


Quoted for truth.


In some cases, yes, but genres signify a certain style of music... the way people play it, the inspiration, the crowd who's listening... Organization is key in such a huge world of music!

Can you imagine two people talking about good "music"... "Yo, I just acquired that new Beastie Boys release!"... "Really, well I have been getting into John Coltrane!" LOL


Yeah I've made the same joke a couple of times before.
'Yeah so I know you're a big music fan, so I just got you some Elvis and Cradle Of Filth albums.'
'How does the music sound?'
'Well it sounds like music. I found both albums in the music area of the music shop.'

Why distinguish at all then? What's your favourite colour? Doesn't exist dude! They're all the same depending on how light reflects.
Where do you live? In space on earth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2018 at 07:44
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Riverside (and Second Life Syndrome in particular) is a perfect example of prog metal and symphonic prog blending, and the result is magic.

But in the 70s bands like Uriah Heep and Deep Purple straddled that border too. Some called them prog, others hard rock, others metal. Different songs fitted all three categories.

I think we worry too much about genres. Just enjoy the music.

This^
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlkpad14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2018 at 09:48
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Riverside (and Second Life Syndrome in particular) is a perfect example of prog metal and symphonic prog blending, and the result is magic.

But in the 70s bands like Uriah Heep and Deep Purple straddled that border too. Some called them prog, others hard rock, others metal. Different songs fitted all three categories.

I think we worry too much about genres. Just enjoy the music.

This^

Not this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2018 at 10:47
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:


Yeah I've made the same joke a couple of times before.
'Yeah so I know you're a big music fan, so I just got you some Elvis and Cradle Of Filth albums.'
'How does the music sound?'

"Use your ears and decide for yourself". Problem solved! LOLCool

Originally posted by mlkpad14 mlkpad14 wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

I think we worry too much about genres. Just enjoy the music.

Quoted for truth.

In some cases, yes, but genres signify a certain style of music... the way people play it, the inspiration, the crowd who's listening... Organization is key in such a huge world of music!

Can you imagine two people talking about good "music"... "Yo, I just acquired that new Beastie Boys release!"... "Really, well I have been getting into John Coltrane!" LOL

I'd argue that's an awesome conversation, and how it SHOULD be! LOL 

I'm also a jazz nerd with eclectic taste so the above is not abnormal for me Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2018 at 10:56
I think genres are great when used as a means to describe music to people already in the know. It's nice to have different monikers for different sounding music. Just like it's nice to have different words for bananas and kiwis...although they're both fruits. 
The problem comes when all these made-up micro genres start popping up - most of em describing already existing genres.
I see this a lot on RYM. People with no musical knowledge from before 1990 claiming x new band is pioneering some new interesting genre....and then when you pop the album on you basically hear the same post-punk meets dream-pop kind of thing. 'Oh but it's not! Can't you hear it's post-modern shoegaze!!!'Wacko
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