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miamiscot View Drop Down
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Points: 3426 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bad Prog...
    Posted: April 05 2018 at 08:08
Bad Prog? Maybe just stuff I don't personally like:

It Bites
Pallas
Pendragon
Knight Area
Saga
Arena

None of the above bands are "bad" - just not my cup of tea.

(There are many more. Mostly Neo stuff.)
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Points: 242 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2018 at 15:22
I don't like the cacophonous Mars Volta, despite their peculiar sound. In fact I don't consider them prog
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Points: 41339 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2018 at 10:09
^ that is a good example how bad vocals can ruin it all. 
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Points: 5111 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2018 at 14:55
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Points: 4591 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2018 at 08:47
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

The debut is ok if you ask me, their follow up album The Wedge is the dud in their discography. 

When it comes to Pallas, I love the very first release, 1981's Arrive Alive and almost nothing else.  I think the live versions of Crown of Thorns and The Ripper are the best things they ever did.  As far as the Sentinel, I really wanted to love it and gave it a ton of listens, but other than Cut and Run nothing really grabbed me...

Arrive Alive? Is that an official release? Never heard of it. 


Yes.  It's their very first album released 3 years before The Sentinel!  A friend let me borrow his vinyl version years ago and the song selection was much smaller than the current release extended CD version.  Also, the version of Crown of Thorns was different (and much better) on the vinyl than on the CD release which was clearly recorded at a different show.  Beware though, Arrive Alive is very rough around the edges and seriously unpolished compared to their studio albums...much higher energy and raw but I think that's part of why I love it 

damn captcha, wrote a little bit and it's gone
Anyway, songs from that album are on youtube, but I lacked the patience and mood for it, just listened a little bit. Not bad, I'll listen to the whole thing in the near future. 

Just checked out Crown of Thorns on YT and unfortunately it's the CD release version not the original vinyl.  Still a must listen if you're already into Pallas though Wink
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Points: 41339 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2018 at 06:33
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

The debut is ok if you ask me, their follow up album The Wedge is the dud in their discography. 

When it comes to Pallas, I love the very first release, 1981's Arrive Alive and almost nothing else.  I think the live versions of Crown of Thorns and The Ripper are the best things they ever did.  As far as the Sentinel, I really wanted to love it and gave it a ton of listens, but other than Cut and Run nothing really grabbed me...

Arrive Alive? Is that an official release? Never heard of it. 


Yes.  It's their very first album released 3 years before The Sentinel!  A friend let me borrow his vinyl version years ago and the song selection was much smaller than the current release extended CD version.  Also, the version of Crown of Thorns was different (and much better) on the vinyl than on the CD release which was clearly recorded at a different show.  Beware though, Arrive Alive is very rough around the edges and seriously unpolished compared to their studio albums...much higher energy and raw but I think that's part of why I love it 

damn captcha, wrote a little bit and it's gone
Anyway, songs from that album are on youtube, but I lacked the patience and mood for it, just listened a little bit. Not bad, I'll listen to the whole thing in the near future. 
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Points: 14110 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2018 at 06:23
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

so everything one does not like becomes bad prog? 

Well how can it be different?

Personally I'm still balking after all these years at the fact that King Crimson were happy to release the Earthbound live album. OK it's radical and KC have always liked to be radical. But it's radical in the first place by being the worst production ever. Haha, before I actually bought it I read a positive review of it in the German Sounds. What is wrong with these people's ears? Well ultimately it's only "bad prog" by means of my dislike. If anybody loves it, fine by me. (Still have your ears checked Wink)
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Points: 7024 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2018 at 03:41
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Rare Bird are pretty bland. I just can't get into them. Lazy and boring!!!

Jesus! I think As Your Mind Flies By is one of the greatest bits of prog - ever.
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Points: 46828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 18:22
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Thanks for all your contributions!  OP here, a few thoughts....

a) "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."  What many of us consider to be "bad prog," others may worship.  Indeed, scoring a recording contract is a notable undertaking, so even "bad" prog acts like the aforementioned Big Elf are noteworthy for that achievement.  Well done, Big Elf!  Clap 

b) "Bad" prog follows somewhat the formula of "cheesy" prog that was once discussed on PA.  Let's take Starcastle, a band I knew in college & hung out with.  

 Talented?  No doubt, their musicianship was top-notch.  Derivative?  Yes, they rather proudly let it be known that they would be the US response to Yes (I once heard the vocalist proclaim "We're going to kick some Limey ass!").  Original?  Not so much.  Bad?  Indeed, they did produce some rather putrid prog, and after the first LP I found them to be unlistenable except for rare efforts.  

I walked out on a Marrillion concert once because it was bad and boring, nearly slept through a Porcupine Tree show because it was extremely boring (and they were even filming it for a DVD!).  Sometimes fine musicians have bad shows or make bad music, it is expected to happen sometimes.  

That being said, there are genuinely bad prog acts.   I had never heard of "Torman Maxt" until I started this post, and after listening to some on YouTube and reading reviews on PA, I can definitely confirm them to be "bad prog."  I detest prog music that tries too hard, particularly if it attempts to hitch itself to the Bible.  Ugh.

thanks again for the PM.. you really are a doll man...


sorry to have introduced you to Torman Maxt... there is a story there..  bad prog is everywhere.  The reason Torman Maxt has achieved legendary status here is quite another...  payola for promotion, removed negative reviews... and general profit driven owner interference with collaborators leaving in anger. Great times man... I don't pick on M@X for the hell of it. He earned it..


 I do feel pity for many of the newbies here. You all really missed a lot of wild west sh*t in the earlier days of this site.  Made Mexican soap operas tame in comparison. .we had it all ..sex.. murder,  attempted murder.. corruption..  bribary..  slander... intellectual thievery.. 

now a wild day for the site is when someone creates a non Genesis, non Camel, non SWilson poll hahah


ANYHOW...   what do you think Charles about the notion of prog for prog's sake being in teh category of bad prog.   If you understand what I mean... run with it.. if not.. I'll explain just what I mean by that later.
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Points: 4591 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 17:30
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

The debut is ok if you ask me, their follow up album The Wedge is the dud in their discography. 

When it comes to Pallas, I love the very first release, 1981's Arrive Alive and almost nothing else.  I think the live versions of Crown of Thorns and The Ripper are the best things they ever did.  As far as the Sentinel, I really wanted to love it and gave it a ton of listens, but other than Cut and Run nothing really grabbed me...

Arrive Alive? Is that an official release? Never heard of it. 


Yes.  It's their very first album released 3 years before The Sentinel!  A friend let me borrow his vinyl version years ago and the song selection was much smaller than the current release extended CD version.  Also, the version of Crown of Thorns was different (and much better) on the vinyl than on the CD release which was clearly recorded at a different show.  Beware though, Arrive Alive is very rough around the edges and seriously unpolished compared to their studio albums...much higher energy and raw but I think that's part of why I love it Wink
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Points: 6753 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 14:19
Thanks for all your contributions!  OP here, a few thoughts....

a) "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."  What many of us consider to be "bad prog," others may worship.  Indeed, scoring a recording contract is a notable undertaking, so even "bad" prog acts like the aforementioned Big Elf are noteworthy for that achievement.  Well done, Big Elf!  Clap 

b) "Bad" prog follows somewhat the formula of "cheesy" prog that was once discussed on PA.  Let's take Starcastle, a band I knew in college & hung out with.  

 Talented?  No doubt, their musicianship was top-notch.  Derivative?  Yes, they rather proudly let it be known that they would be the US response to Yes (I once heard the vocalist proclaim "We're going to kick some Limey ass!").  Original?  Not so much.  Bad?  Indeed, they did produce some rather putrid prog, and after the first LP I found them to be unlistenable except for rare efforts.  

I walked out on a Marrillion concert once because it was bad and boring, nearly slept through a Porcupine Tree show because it was extremely boring (and they were even filming it for a DVD!).  Sometimes fine musicians have bad shows or make bad music, it is expected to happen sometimes.  

That being said, there are genuinely bad prog acts.   I had never heard of "Torman Maxt" until I started this post, and after listening to some on YouTube and reading reviews on PA, I can definitely confirm them to be "bad prog."  I detest prog music that tries too hard, particularly if it attempts to hitch itself to the Bible.  Ugh.


Edited by cstack3 - March 14 2018 at 14:24
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Points: 15007 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 13:13
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

Pallas is one band from the '80s UK neo scene I've never been able to get into. To varying degrees, where Twelfth Night, IQ, Pendragon, Jadis, Landmarq, no problem.

Pallas? Just can't get into them...
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Points: 41339 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 00:11
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

The debut is ok if you ask me, their follow up album The Wedge is the dud in their discography. 

When it comes to Pallas, I love the very first release, 1981's Arrive Alive and almost nothing else.  I think the live versions of Crown of Thorns and The Ripper are the best things they ever did.  As far as the Sentinel, I really wanted to love it and gave it a ton of listens, but other than Cut and Run nothing really grabbed me...

Arrive Alive? Is that an official release? Never heard of it. 
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Points: 4591 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 18:35
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

The debut is ok if you ask me, their follow up album The Wedge is the dud in their discography. 

When it comes to Pallas, I love the very first release, 1981's Arrive Alive and almost nothing else.  I think the live versions of Crown of Thorns and The Ripper are the best things they ever did.  As far as the Sentinel, I really wanted to love it and gave it a ton of listens, but other than Cut and Run nothing really grabbed me...
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Points: 8571 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 17:09
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

I owned a copy of this at the height of my neo prog phase circa 1985, and I listened to it with gusto many times. But even then, in my heart of hearts, I knew it was a bit sh*t.

That statement pretty much summed up my Dream Theater listening days. 

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Points: 5111 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 16:53
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

I owned a copy of this at the height of my neo prog phase circa 1985, and I listened to it with gusto many times. But even then, in my heart of hearts, I knew it was a bit sh*t.
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Points: 41339 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 16:50
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

The debut is ok if you ask me, their follow up album The Wedge is the dud in their discography. 
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Points: 8571 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 16:31
This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

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Points: 6753 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2018 at 23:08
Originally posted by mathman0806 mathman0806 wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

OK, we've had "Sad Prog," how about "Bad Prog?"  

Prog that is so bad, you can't keep quiet about it any longer! 

I'm happy to nominate Big Elf as the first entry in "Bad Prog."  I saw them as an opening act for the Dream Theater's "Progressive Nation" tour, and my ears still hurt.  There something sacrilegious about playing TWO Mellotrons at once!!  Here, enjoy.....



I am not familiar with Big Elf, but I found the video enjoyable in a Spinal Tap-ish sort of way. Of course, if it wasn't meant to be humorous ...

I've played in a Spinal Tap tribute band called "Casual Cro Bar," in which I did "Nigel" honors.  I know Spinal Tap, Spinal Tap are "friends" of mine.  

Big Elf are no Spinal Tap, they actually think their act is cool.  I guess there are some who like them.  

Me in Casual Crowbar...deliberately bad art-project rock!  We did "Baby's On Fire," the kids dug it!  I did Eno vocals and Fripp lead guitar, badly. 
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Points: 6753 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2018 at 23:05
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

I have never heard of the band in OP's post, and now my ears are upset.

LOL Yeah, imagine how I felt when they slogged onstage before Dream Theater!  
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