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progressive rock in crisis

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portugal View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 11 2018 at 08:15

First of all I want to apologize for my bad English.

And second:

I think, over the last few years, progressive rock decreases its popularity. Even on this site, since around 2015, popularity is going down. Fans are caught up with increasing apathy. Even popular bands such as Spock’s Beard, Lunatic Soul, Between the Buried and Me etc. have not escaped this apathy. In 2018 there is only one album with more than 100 ratings. I don’t know whether this is an objective drop in popularity of the genre or fans just don't enter the site anymore. Is this the begining of the end of the new awakening of the prog genre in the last 20 years? What do you think?

I recently found this blog: http://newprogreleases.blogspot.com/ Look at the release schedule: every year since 2014 the number of editions decreases.Unhappy

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2018 at 08:34
Prog has been "in crisis" since the late seventies...

That said, it's been a slow year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2018 at 09:03
I would not call it a crisis, not just yet anyways. Rock music in general has seen a decrease in the last 20 years or so, giving way to hip hop, rap, reggae and other genres, to take over the airwaves. Same happened to jazz when rock was introduced, and will also happen to the current genres that are more popular today. Jazz saw a revival in the early 70s, with the introduction of fusion, and has seen another renewed interest in the recent years as well. Same will happen to rock in the future, and progressive rock also will see this happening as well. It seems that interest in a particular genre of music, though never extinct, takes it's ups and downs in the public interest. One thing for sure, good music never dies, so we can look forward more progressive bands/artists still coming up, though it certainly will not be as popular as it's golden era.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lamneth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2018 at 09:08
I noticed (rather unscientifically) that 2013 was some kind of peak in terms of great prog music coming out, and it's been a downhill slide ever since... with this year being particulary bad so far.  Same thing happened a decade earlier... peak prog 2000-2004, and then it went downhill around 2005-2006.


Edited by Lamneth - June 11 2018 at 09:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MadImmortalMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2018 at 13:57
Originally posted by Lamneth Lamneth wrote:

I noticed (rather unscientifically) that 2013 was some kind of peak in terms of great prog music coming out, and it's been a downhill slide ever since... with this year being particulary bad so far.  Same thing happened a decade earlier... peak prog 2000-2004, and then it went downhill around 2005-2006.

I've lurked this forum for about a decade, and I notice the peaks as well. 2011-2014 seemed to be particularly active; lately it's been kind of dead. The last album I remember that got a large amount of hype was Similitude of a Dream.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mckramin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2018 at 14:01
I think there are several factors:

1.  Forum use in general has decreased significantly in the last 5 years due to Facebook and other social media platforms.  This is true for all forums in most subject matter.

2.  A lot of the progressive groups are getting older and not producing new material so there is less newly recorded material from the 1970s/1980s groups.

3.  Production of music has been basically reduced to digital streaming services and the purchase of music on other media (CD/Vinyl) has been greatly diminished and it is harder for groups to generate the funds needed to record.  The majority of money earned by groups is via concert touring and Prog groups tend not to rake in big money from touring.

4.  The average age of fans of progressive rock is getting older and are less active in listening/reviewing and looking for new music...have you ever seen the average age of people at a progressive rock concert...looks like the geriatric ward at a sausage fest


Edited by mckramin - June 11 2018 at 14:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2018 at 16:04
Things change.  No one really believes every good era goes on forever... do they?

Time to grow up.  Find music you love and play it.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2018 at 20:25
Originally posted by MadImmortalMan MadImmortalMan wrote:

Originally posted by Lamneth Lamneth wrote:

I noticed (rather unscientifically) that 2013 was some kind of peak in terms of great prog music coming out, and it's been a downhill slide ever since... with this year being particulary bad so far.  Same thing happened a decade earlier... peak prog 2000-2004, and then it went downhill around 2005-2006.



I've lurked this forum for about a decade, and I notice the peaks as well. 2011-2014 seemed to be particularly active; lately it's been kind of dead. The last album I remember that got a large amount of hype was Similitude of a Dream.


Yeah, I also noticed the great music from this period... though I think of it as 2012-2014. Not only lot's of music... but good music... and not only prog, in general there were many great albums/songs released on these years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2018 at 20:29
Originally posted by mckramin mckramin wrote:

I think there are several factors:

1.  Forum use in general has decreased significantly in the last 5 years due to Facebook and other social media platforms.  This is true for all forums in most subject matter.

2.  A lot of the progressive groups are getting older and not producing new material so there is less newly recorded material from the 1970s/1980s groups.

3.  Production of music has been basically reduced to digital streaming services and the purchase of music on other media (CD/Vinyl) has been greatly diminished and it is harder for groups to generate the funds needed to record.  The majority of money earned by groups is via concert touring and Prog groups tend not to rake in big money from touring.

4.  The average age of fans of progressive rock is getting older and are less active in listening/reviewing and looking for new music...have you ever seen the average age of people at a progressive rock concert...looks like the geriatric ward at a sausage fest



I think the admins of this site should take a more active role to promote and give life to the FB account of the site. Right now it's just posting (I guess automatically) about reviews or threads in the site... but there should be one or a few people actually posting news and songs in the FB page to give it more flow... there are other prog FB pages doing this. And with the support of the site, it should be able to work very nicely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2018 at 21:11
Hi,

The funny/weird thing is that despite all this decline for some 50 years, it is still here, and we still discuss it.

I do think that at the worst of times, adding a CAPTCHA thing hurts the general posting, and closes down the more fringe folks, and this has been an attitude behind many of the Internet this and that for almost 30 years, and it won't change ... some form of security to stop the spams is necessary, like it or not, and Facebook and everyone else is not immune to it, either, and their improvement, or appearance to be a bigger/better platform for it all, is illusory, at best.

The idea that today is more costly than yesterday, is ridiculous in my book, when the ability to put things together TODAY with computers is inexpensive and makes the old style of studios ridiculously stupid and silly. The real bad thing is that folks getting together to create something is OVER at this time, because you can do this yourself on the computer, and thus, creating something that has an idea, is specifically attuned to an individual, not a band.

I, personally, think that the issue is more about us all here, always ready to defend a group from 45 years ago, and take no time whatsoever, to even listen to a group from today ... the nice words and comments are so small and minimal, that they really seem to suggest that this listener did not spend any more than 5 minutes listening to the whole thing! If they had, the comments would be longer and more extensive, right?

This was not the case.

Thus, for me, the issue is, and has been for some time, one about the listener ... and his/her ability to only listen for 5 minutes, and immediately state to themselves that it does not sound like the top 5 ... and they are done listening ... and have no detailed idea of what the composition is all about, let alone the composer, and this is the harshest thing about a lot of the folks here and admins ... its very obvious those that have listened to things and comment on them fairly well, and those that plaster the board with single lines to show their musical knowledge of 3 minute songs, they consider "prog" or "progressive" ... and nothing to say about the rest of the band's work. 

You see, this whole thing is not about "music" ... it has become about the commercial identification of something or other, and thus, the new things, are not visible, because ears are not attuned to new material ... never fear, or never mind ... it has been like that for hundreds, if not thousands of years, and somehow the music survives!

The sun still comes up, and you and I post ... sometimes even I wonder how much of it is crap, but I can not forsake the MUSIC, and the artist's work ... somehow thinking that a human's life is not worth because of a song, is just not in my DNA!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2018 at 22:02
I think in Finland most of the people are just not anymore interested any "deep" art. Superficial is the word of the day and people just want to be entertained, not think anything serious or have a deep experiences. Someway I understand them, what kind of world this today world is. Lessen of the interest of prog is just part of that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2018 at 23:13
Prog requires time to fully "get", the new listeners don't have the desire to invest time to listen to prog like some of us have the past 40yrs.

CAPTCHA has not helped either LOL.....but prog has been in demise for sometime. The other thing is most bands we laud rarely label themselves "prog", only we do.

Originally posted by atavachron atavachron wrote:

Time to grow up.  Find music you love and play it.

This speaks volumes.......



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2018 at 02:41
Frankly, people are not actually buying the music any more. So musicians stop producing it. Supply and demand. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2018 at 05:27
As for recent years I think prog had it's peak from 2005 to around 2016. I think by now most people are starting to either get bored by it or it's just off their radar. It has seemed to reach a point where it's not going to interest more people who don't yet already know about it except for maybe younger folks who are probably still discovering it. Even then it's probably mostly jam, post rock or metal oriented stuff. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2018 at 08:56
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Frankly, people are not actually buying the music any more. So musicians stop producing it. Supply and demand. 

This is a type of comment, that for me, PERSONALLY, is really sad.

Why would a Stravinsky bother? Or a Orff ... or anyone else? What is the point of the music, then? To specifically fill up some pockets?

I find this sad. If supply and demand is the reason for it all, then the whole thing is dead, and I wish folks like DS1965 some luck ... he's in the middle of thousands of others trying to grab a dollar ... and obviously not doing well, but then, with comments like this, it makes one wonder, how serious he really is about his own music, as a "progressive", "experimental", or anything else kind of music.

In the end, your dedication has to be so total, to your art, or its over. Your chances of making anything of it, without the dedication, is making things even more difficult for any musician out there. It's just sad to see these things out there, specially from musicians that try and have materials to show for their work.

Why would I bother buying Dave's next album when he is simply working on supply and demand? 

I wouldn't!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Junges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2018 at 09:42
First of all, I would like to say that I tried to post here after weeks without posting and I lost my post again. That's the reason why people are going away from here. I noticed I am posting less and less since this captcha sh*t has been introduced and I think I am not the only one.



Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Frankly, people are not actually buying the music any more. So musicians stop producing it. Supply and demand. 

This is a type of comment, that for me, PERSONALLY, is really sad.

Why would a Stravinsky bother? Or a Orff ... or anyone else? What is the point of the music, then? To specifically fill up some pockets?

I find this sad. If supply and demand is the reason for it all, then the whole thing is dead, and I wish folks like DS1965 some luck ... he's in the middle of thousands of others trying to grab a dollar ... and obviously not doing well, but then, with comments like this, it makes one wonder, how serious he really is about his own music, as a "progressive", "experimental", or anything else kind of music.

In the end, your dedication has to be so total, to your art, or its over. Your chances of making anything of it, without the dedication, is making things even more difficult for any musician out there. It's just sad to see these things out there, specially from musicians that try and have materials to show for their work.

Why would I bother buying Dave's next album when he is simply working on supply and demand? 

I wouldn't!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2018 at 11:15
Crisis? When did Fox news start posting here? Why the hell does everything have to be full throttle hyperbole anymore? You forgot to post a photo of a Mellotron and a tassled lamè jacket in flames.
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Yeah, this forum is a structural zombie at this point. The fix for security concerns has effectively put it's users in the crosshairs;much like antibiotics kill the natural flora in your bowel causing diarrhea. Its not active and buzzing like it was in its infancy. But look around you. Its happening all over the internet. The polish has worn off just like cable television after its early days when it had the great promise of "pay for it and you don't have to watch commercials". Now the majority of the internet is just another vehicle to jam advertising down our throats. And Facebook died for me when they went public. Who didn't see the abuse coming?
But in regards to music creation I find there are more acts than I can legitimately keep up with and absorb. Last year the bands on this site released at least 500 albums. I don't know what the final total was (the database search limits at 250 and unrated albums do not display).Its true there have not been as many releases that I have enjoyed at the midpoint of 2018, but I'm kind of thankful for the little break. Sometimes I like to catch up on the older stuff that I like. But still, I continue to find things that flew under radar for me the last couple years. This year is not likely to be different.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2018 at 12:57
I'm still finding loads of great music everywhere, sure there's a crash and burn in physical sales but I'm still seeing lots of active bands. It may not be the 70's any more but I'd argue its been better quality out there than the 90's & 00's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote iancat87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2018 at 13:23
I mean most of "progressive rock" since the late Seventies hasn't been very progressive at all. A lot of the newer stuff is just rehashing ideas from older bands. I mean, I submitted my own album for inclusion into the database as being a new thing, but it was deemed "definitely not prog." I get it, it doesn't sound like Yes (frankly it is more akin in forms to Procol Harum or The Moody Blues). Meanwhile, for all of Wobbler's accolades on this site, I wouldn't say they're "progressive" in the truest sense of the word. They're very talented and write music that sounds like Yes and Genesis outtakes, but I wouldn't consider them as innovative or exploratory as the original prog bands, or the best of anything truly "progressive."

Reading the liner notes from the 40th anniversary edition of In The Court of The Crimson King got me thinking a lot about this, and delving into some other reading on prog.
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