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Collaborator/experts reviews |
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progaardvark 
Collaborator 
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Sea of Peas Status: Offline Points: 48757 |
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 Posted: January 04 2019 at 06:14 |
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Spatulas are much easier to wear.
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 12 2007 Location: Bryant, Wa Status: Offline Points: 8576 |
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Posted: January 04 2019 at 06:35 |
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^But really, would you ever wear one without the other?
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Mascodagama
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5111 |
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Posted: January 04 2019 at 06:37 |
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^ Surely a true avant-gardener would wear a stylish pan on his head and a spatula up each nostril?
EDIT: Ninja-ed, dammit! Edited by Mascodagama - January 04 2019 at 06:38 |
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Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to.
Bandcamp Profile |
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 12 2007 Location: Bryant, Wa Status: Offline Points: 8576 |
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Posted: January 04 2019 at 06:38 |
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^it's the only way to scrape the cheese off.
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Roland113
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 30 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 3841 |
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Posted: January 04 2019 at 15:06 |
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Ok, just read through the entire thread and as a retired collaborator I wanted to ad a couple random comments in here:
1) Barney cracks me up 2) I believe that The Tangent is important simply because of the historical relevance of Andy Tillison within the prog community. I think if the album is awful and just a repeat of his career, it should get awful reviews, but I think from his historical significance, it's important. 3) That being said, for something to be reviewed, you need to have a collaborator that actually wants to review it. I realize we got one review while the thread was going on, but the point is still valid. If it's only interesting enough to merit one collaborator taking interest in it, then something is missing the mark. 4) Don't look at me cause I'm not reviewing it. . . . :) |
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-------someone please tell him to delete this line, he looks like a noob-------
I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a fourteen year old daughter and coping mechanisms. |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16165 |
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Posted: January 06 2019 at 09:46 |
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IF, anything, I would like to see some reasonable guidelines for a review, to prevent people from writing 2 paragraphs and making it obvious they did not give the album a good listen, or at least a sincere review, to help the album. I really think that many of the small reviews do not belong there ... again, they should be in a section called "Opinion", separated from bonafide reviews that deserve the credit and attention. I also do Foreign Film reviews (I don't do mega movies just like I don't top ten here!), and have done that for 30 years ... and many of them are listed at the IMDB location for quite a few films ... but here, sometimes I feel that I do not want to place my review in there, because many of them, next to it, would take away from the album ... and to me, that is the part that hurts what we want to promote ... "progressive music" ... it was not a "popular" thing at the start, and with a few fanboy exceptions, it continued to be under the radar, and us simply writing and promoting the "top ten", is sad, and not a great way to present the music we love. You really think that the Romantic Period in Music has reviews that are one paragraph that says that it is all meandering solo stuff, and borderline progressive? It doesn't even talk about the different movements and parts of the piece!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: @ wicker man Status: Offline Points: 32705 |
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Posted: January 06 2019 at 11:22 |
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I don't think that guidelines will prevent those, though they may inhibit them to some extent. A concrete step such as increasing the character limit could be implemented, but then I think that we would find more filler in various reviews. Various of my favourite reviews both in music and film have been concise. There are more guidelines that could be implemented, but that won't stop people from not reading or following them. So then we might implement them as firm rules, and then this might lead to the need for more policing, but as we are volunteers here I don't see that as particularly desirable.
If I see a poor review I just stop reading it, or enjoy it precisely for it being a poor review. I do wish people would take the time to listen to the music more and properly before reviewing (and that is expected) and I have deleted reviews where people clearly had not listened to the album even once (this particularly happens with new album additions, sometimes the reviews come out before the album is even available). That said, I can't complain about others reviewing as I've haven't made many music reviews, and the music reviews I made I think were really poor. I personally have found writing film reviews easier as I have a background in film studies and it's easier to talk the language for me and it's easier to talk specifics beyond opinion when it comes to film for me and to create a good framework and approach for the review. I like film essays which look at films from a particular perspective (say ideological, historical etc.) Music generally seems more nebulous to me. Hell, I can barely even compose this post now as I'm lacking focus. When it comes to our unprofessional music reviewing here, if people want to write a review I don't think generally it's so much about helping the album as it is more about just sharing one's impressions. It's up to the audience if they value that review. There are many very poor small reviews to be sure, and some of those were made by Collabs in the early days (a couple by me later on) and still get special prominence on the review pages, whereas one will find much better reviews made by non-collabs that are not given such prominence. Having a "sort reviews by length" feature might be good, although there are many more things that I would sooner rather be implemented for this site. I'd also quite like to be able to filter out reviews that copiously use certain words, or phrases, in reviews such as "best", "lol", "crap" or "poop galore", "total pants", "totally tubular" except when referencing Tubular Bells or some such thing, "Buy this now!" or even "At the end of the day" and "At this point in time" and "I haz a fluffy". |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
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Posted: January 07 2019 at 00:38 |
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This very much pertains to individual tastes methinks. There have been some rather boundary pushing and unique albums over the past decade or so that to me deserve far more recognition than some of the most rated and loved ones...yet because they’re filed in avant/electronic/exp metal/etc they tend to fly past most old school prog aficionados...which is quite alright by me - we can’t all listen to the same kind of music, it’d be boring - but just remember than when you think an album deserves far more cred than what it’s currently receiving..there are most likely the first 100 other PA members who feel the exact same for some other release.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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I prophesy disaster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 31 2017 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 4596 |
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Posted: January 07 2019 at 04:58 |
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I find it quite bizarre that since its release in 2016, Van der Graaf Generator's "Do Not Disturb" has received only 4 reviews of which only one is a Collaborators/Experts review.
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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16165 |
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Posted: January 07 2019 at 07:14 |
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Don't go reading GODARD ON GODARD, or RICHARD PINHAS on HELDON and his music.!!!!! Funny that you compare these two ... for me, there is no "difference" per se, although in my reviews I can discuss music, cinematography, acting, and directing choices, where in a "music review" this is much more difficult and there is a lot less to work with ... Actually, for me, it's not that difficult, because I get images in my head and they tend to illustrate the place and the words very clearly ... for example ... there isn't a single band from the early 70's in Canterbury that does not clarify the "college series" (as I call it), and the music that came out of it all, which of course, had started in the 60's anyway. But, it's illustration shows a lot of the things that inspired many folks, from artists, to writers (specially!) to other forms of art which went on to create things like Henry Cow, Art Bears, and what I call the "eccentric" crowd of English bands, going as far as Third Ear Band. Specially in London, the amount of history in the other arts, help explain a lot more and make things clear in a lot of music. People tend to dismiss such things as "Tonite We All Love in London" ... but no one comments some far out bits ... John met Yoko there ... Robert Wyatt "probably" got pissed off and upset with the crowd ignoring his band and started a 1,2,3 that became very famous for his band, all the actors and actresses around, which you know they were all comingling and having fun as youngsters, just like we would. And then the number of writers present every where ... and while no one on this board gives a hoot about Ginsberg (not quite the poetry style I like and write), when you hear his own reading ... it sends shivers up your spine, and all of a sudden, a song by King Crimson, a song by Credence Clearwater Revival, a song by the Edgar Broughton Band and many other things, take on an importance, that is readily ignored and dismissed out right here on PA by many folks ... and some of them not intentional, I grant you ... but very little art ... in history of the arts ... was not a part of its environment, and does not show so much of its influence, and we would have a hard time writing about many of these. This makes, for example, the writing of a review for SELLING ENGLAND BY THE POUND very difficult ... because all of a sudden, no one understands the analogy of the lawnmower and they think that a guitar and a loud organ is what made this music progressive, which is ridiculous and naive ... and PG admits there are some political statements there (there had been before, and there are many more in TLLDOB), but they did not wish to be considered a lefty or a righty ... and just kept is hidden under some symbolic gestures and thoughts ... not very original, really, but interesting anyway! The hard part, is folks, today, explaining and discussing some material by Iron Maiden, or Dream Theater, or Pineapple Thief, or Steven Wilson ... as more valuable than just pop music, since the "content" in these is simply personal, and the "meaning side" of it is not as valid within a social context ... SW does not write because society is wrong ... he writes because he believes he is right and .... and this is a very hard falacy to get around ... I like SW a lot, but his lyrics and comments leave me cold ... in fact, sometimes I think he is just being a "bad boy" for the sake of it. Which is really strange when considering that he has had the chance to see/read/hear so many more things and learn so much more from so many other artists ... I mean SW with KS? ... well, they did not have a lot to talk about, but the best part of those sessions did not even feature SW, which suggests he had no idea anyway, or was too busy to realize what he could learn.
AND ... that is exactly what was said at KTYD about all the different and unknown bands in 1974 when Guy Guden came on. This is a self-fulfilling idea to pat one's back. In the end, this is the lazy way to get things done. That's not to say that all of the short ones are bad or not clear ... that's not true ... there are many very good reviews ... but that's like trying to explain GODARD in one sentence ... or HERZOG ... or FELLINI ... or BUNUEL ... and this is the kind of thought that hurts the arts in general ... and in the end, Space Pirate Radio and Guy Guden are remembered by many fans ... STILL ... although these past few years, things have tapered off ... and I think Guy may not be doing as well physically. Not to mention how much music is remembered that we discuss here! WHAT MADE PROGRESSIVE and helped create what we love, was ... above all ... the feeling that we have to change things ... and Revolution #9 was telling you that if you were revolting without a proper replacement, you can count me out ... that is quite mature in my book! But, here, and specially in the "reviews" section, the aesthetics and beauty of the art is missing ... and you know what it feels like to me? ... the beautiful house that has a few pictures in the hallway on the way to the kitchen. One is a 16x20 of a tomato. The next one is a 16x20 of an onion ... and all of a sudden it is all Andy Warhol making fun of our knowledge of what an art is ... AND WE DON'T GET IT?
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16165 |
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Posted: January 09 2019 at 06:17 |
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Hi,
One other thought ... but some might not like it ... that EACH REVIEW has to be OK'd by 3 of the reviewers. And if it gets rejected the person gets a nice email stating that their review was not up to standards and that the Board of Reviewers has rejected it as a review ... The review section being opened to every one and their sister is ... asking for a lot of bad stuff in there.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14110 |
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Posted: January 09 2019 at 16:07 |
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OK there are some pretty useless and stupid reviews. There are also some very long reviews and there's something to be said for being concise and to the point. And then there are the great ones. Personally I like that there's a place for them all. In my view the bad reviews don't devalue the good ones at all and I think it's a pity that somebody wouldn't want to write a good passionate review just because there are some other reviews that don't have that standard. It doesn't take that much for an interested reader to tell them apart and decide on which to focus; certainly not if an album only has some 2-8 reviews. When I'm reading reviews I'm often after getting some kind of comprehensive overview of how an album is appreciated and by whom, and the variety (including variety in review quality) is a feature, not a bug for me.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29625 |
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Posted: January 10 2019 at 14:44 |
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Yeah there are some reviews that are waaaay to critical of something I love and their points are bullsh*t to me. Everyone's a critic. The fun of posting reviews here is opinionating. Just do it. Let yourself free. If someone thinks you're full of it, so be it.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Quinino
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2011 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 3654 |
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Posted: January 10 2019 at 15:08 |
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Yeah, I agree, freedom for all ! ☮
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64375 |
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Posted: January 10 2019 at 16:14 |
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Great advice. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 12 2007 Location: Bryant, Wa Status: Offline Points: 8576 |
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Posted: January 10 2019 at 16:21 |
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Exactly. Actually what I'm looking for in a review is the point of view of somebody who may have similar tastes as me. And more times than not, brevity is a quality. |
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grantman
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 03 2015 Location: CANADA Status: Offline Points: 732 |
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Posted: January 10 2019 at 16:56 |
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There are reviewers that are critical and some encouraging ,the point im making all reviews some very long and also some short and concise it is the listener that carries the day , i thought this forum was created for the average everyman/woman to share thoughts and opinions
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 14730 |
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Posted: January 10 2019 at 18:37 |
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What i would like to see is some sort of way the readers could rate a reviews relevance by voting on it much like a Facebook like. Then an alogrhythm would keep the relevant reviews longer on the homepage while the two liner of no content would be flushed down the list. That way nobody would be censored but would be rewarded by writing relevant content to see their words stay still a little longer.
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64375 |
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Posted: January 10 2019 at 18:41 |
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^ Great idea: merit-based. Problematic because feelings will be hurt and unexpected results will occur. Maybe a trial run. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 14730 |
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Posted: January 10 2019 at 19:11 |
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^ How about all the feelings that are hurt for those who have to read childish rants about albums that are clearly over the head of the reviewer who spews out a short paragraph of nothing?
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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
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Nogbad_The_Bad wrote: