The future of PA |
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Jaketejas
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 27 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1969 |
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Gotcha Micky. I had a somewhat dangerous job, although probably not as dangerous as what yours sounds like, and I also come here to let off steam. Music is what I do in my limited spare time, and prog holds a special place for me. Our city played a big role in supporting prog bands, and I was lucky enough to have a unique opportunity to learn from one of the greats. If I'm not working on some music project, I start climbing the walls. Thanks for helping put the site together, and I hope they are regularly backing up the database.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19630 |
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People loved it here and the place was awesome My honeymoon here lasted at least four years, before it got less pleasant Power
struggles (I turned down becoming an Admin a few times) and hidden
agendas (trying to add to the datrabase whatever they wanted) made some
act like pre-puberty kids in a sandbox... and I didn't always escape
that either
2006
means two years after the site's creation, and that sounds like way too
short, but yeah, it got very nasty at one point, but I'd say in 2011
and 12 (that's 8 years ago, you know) I'd
place Iron Maiden's inclusion (at Joren's demand at first and Mike In
Regalia afterwards... if memory serves, Jody was not in favour, but I
was OK with it in Prog-related) around 2010.But the Prog-related often
became Prog-Realhatred Which addition are you talking about??
Well you & Raff are because of this site, right ?? Yes, it does look that way (auto-pilot), but that meant that the structure built was good most
of the stress on site came from the genre-teams (probably too
autonomous, IMHO) and the breah down or Art Rock into three more genres (two of them being stupidly named, but no-one culd find better) and the ever-growing section of metal subgenres (I never even looked at what was included - I was beyond caring at that point) Edited by Sean Trane - August 02 2019 at 04:02 |
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Raff
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24392 |
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No, Iron Maiden were added in 2006. I remember because I did the addition myself, which stirred a hornet's nest. What my hubby is referring to, however, is the Steely Dan addition, whose fallout was extremely nasty (we are talking personal attacks here). This is the main reason why I don't like these discussions. What's done is done, and we have to learn to live what we don't agree with.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19630 |
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Mmmhh!!!... I guess my time-clock has eroded I don't remember
Steely Dan discussions being such mayhem (I though it was worse for The
Doors ... Or Iron Maiden, FTM), except where to place them (I was for Prog-Related, and
thought it was wrong in JR/F), but I guess I didn't libe it the way
micky did Edited by Sean Trane - August 02 2019 at 04:12 |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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Metallica was another addition that got a lot of people bent out of shape. Heck, even Radiohead. It's mindboggling to reflect on it today and realise that a lot of people got upset that Radiohead was added. I mean, OK Computer and Kid A, for crying out loud?
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Barbu
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 09 2005 Location: infinity Status: Offline Points: 30845 |
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I didn't say you are taking it too seriously. I said that you give the impression of... the words you choose probably. It happens very rarely but when I call someone an a****le, a motherf**ker or a cum-eater 'neo-lover' fa****, I'm really pissed-off and taking things very seriously. Edited by Barbu - August 02 2019 at 08:44 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16222 |
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I have no problems with the additions ... even though I am not a Metamariachi fan at all ... watching many of my neighbors sit on their garage doors on weekends, getting stoned hearing that band! Kinda over rated and boring for me, but they say the same thing about YES or GENESIS when I drive by and blow them out with the sound on my car, playing something loud on guitar to get their attention ... they have asked a couple of times, but I'm being cagey ... not telling them nothing ... you gotta find it on your own ... or your appreciation will not be there! The only thing that bothers me, is that some of the subdivisions are insane and ridiculous, and I wonder if they were not defined by people that simply did not know music history ... and used the terms for their own definition instead ... soooooooooo geeeeeeekkkkkk that is! The geek is a better musician these days, and doesn't have to learn an instrument! Take that! Symphonic is ridiculous, and its choices are even more so ... even GENESIS and YES, and so many other bands should/could all be a part of this ... but aren't! The term was used for the wrong purpose in my book. The other side of the coin, is that ... from my perspective, I think there are a lot of minor bands way out in the far ends of the galaxy or just left field, that no one can handle ... but they should be included, simply to help DEFINE what they do and what it might suggest musically to most fans, when they are described as such and such. For example ... The Third Ear Band, defies description. For the most part it is probably best placed in the 15th and 16th century "music" BEFORE ... it became "controlled" and forced into a "staff". And that would be an important marker for the history. For that matter, the site, should work on a history of some sort, and then clean up the definitions, so they fit better into the chronology of music, up to and including jazz in America and how it helped develop the progressive sound and music! It's not like many of those black folks were not improvising and jamming for a long time ... and everyone ignored them ... they are totally loved and appreciated today, although most "progressive fans" have no idea, or probably do not give a damn about the connection, or how it helped define the long cuts later ... for example, the Grateful Dead might have more of a connection to the jazz history of expanding music, than their connection to doing this within a classical style (very European) or into a rock style ... that is still being defined today! PA will only have a future as long as it has some folks that can keep track of it and help it be maintained and cleaned up ... somewhere along the lines of this, I would like to see the reviews and definitions of each band get cleaned up a lot more ... so they can be better used as a quote material in other works, which would be something that could/might even bring in a few nickels later from rights and such! The whole introduction and show of the reviews has to be more intelligent and well defined and ... stop allowing WIKI from taking the lead on these things ... PA has the best folks to get this done ... but is not using them ... and sadly, I bet that most of them are helping clean up the WIKI stuff ... simply because we refuse to clean up our own house! |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Quinino
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 26 2011 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 3654 |
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Are you volunteering to help along, Pedro?
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
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well.. seems you missed all the good ones Torman Maxt and S.D. hahah. i do remember.. as you were not exactly an angel (though few of those really existed in the early wild west days of the site).. but as the conflicts became more ugly, more personal, and thus more bloody but were largely behind the scenes...you had pretty much checked out of the site by then. See man.. if we are going to be cathartic here.. see we all dealt with the hate from the gen pop in the very early days. Iron Maiden. and yeah Madan.. Metallica.. even f**king Radiohead. However that was like those little hot dog things nipping at your ankles.. you get them one good kick and they suddenly lose their bite. Where things got nasty is when fullly armed and mean as hell collabs started shooting each other. What was worse. .and made the S.D. addition so bloody... was when the personal attacks originated from not one's fellow collabs.. but the next level up. Kiddies draw a knife on you.. easy.. shoot them down. However when you have a gun drawn on you you have two choices .. get shot.. or drop a nuke on them.. so me being me.. I f**ked nuked the person that pulled .. not disagreeing on the merits of the addition as most any rational person would.. but making it personal. Be thankful you missed it as you apparantly did.. it wasn't a pretty sight. It did mark the end of the first era of the site... and why I soon after turned over my teams to my 2nd's .. and left teh site for years. Oh yes.. that addtion was unanimously cleared by both xover AND JR/F.. but Martin and I decided it should before being added and once it was.. it was best that I take it first. .then eventually move it to where it really belonged.. with him. However .. the admin team did for one of the very rare times on this site actually consider removing an 'approved' addition.. but it stayed.. wasn't not removed.. nor moved to PR where it had ZERO place. we evaluated music here .. not band names... both Martin and I and our teams saw that.. others though did not as perhaps out of the RPI fallout where yeah.. I took a metal pipe and shoved it up the ass of the admin team for jerking me and my ISP team up teh ass for so long and not deciding that question and i went over their head. I made some enemies.. but in turn.. they made a far worse more enemy. so much for the movie I suppose.. though one could dream of what Peckinpah would have done with those couple of years of what happened at this site.. much of it behind the scenes for as I said. The kiddies on the forum.. were far more mature than the goddamn collabs at that point hahaha
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Grumpyprogfan
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 10080 |
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Micky, Appreciate the attitude, sense of humor, and the work you do on this site. Thanks.
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
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bah hah and a pfff.. but thanks.. and I'll accept that for a great many who made this all happen in those chaotic but so very exciting and fun early years where we did built the best prog rock resource to be found.
Those long gone, and those still around that.. even as the old days.. know I have no problem stepping forward and taking the heat and the knives and gunfire that came with the unpopular or controversial decisions.....but for once.. f**k man.. I'll take a few damn kudos.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10366 |
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SD was moved to JR because I told you if I could move them to JR, then I could defend their addition, which I did.
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Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 16356 |
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This site has definitely had it's hiccups. It will continue to have hiccups but it seems to me a lot of the rough edges have been smoothed out. I'm only an observer so I don't know all the details. I was actually on here under a different user name(which I will not divulge)and can tell you that at times I could tell that things weren't going as smoothly as they should have. One example in particular is that it took way too long for that one Nad Sylvan album to get added(and his profile in general). His one album came out and I think it was like six months before he(and the album)finally got added despite the fact he was making a name for himself in prog circles and it seemed like you could find information on him on every prog site except here. I would like to think that's something that won't happen again anytime soon. Some of the band suggestions still get ignored but I think it's sometimes because the collaborators either never heard of them or don't think they are important enough to take heed. I wish people could be more on top of that but since I'm not a collaborator I'll try not to complain too much. Other than that this site seems to be in a good place now. Micky might be the only pirate on this ship at the moment but he's a good pirate(if there is such a thing). Prog pirate. That would be a cool user name. Too bad I didn't think of that a long time ago. :P
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
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perhaps Hugues old age is catching on ... not doubting you John but honestly only remember Martin (Alucard) and Richard Heath being involved with talk this.... and Martin as he was head of his teams as I was mine talked long of this.. and we both agreed than they would go in Xover. which they were when they were added.. thus when the guns were drawn.. they came after me .. not him.. which was the plan as I enjoyed a good bar fight. However as alluded to.. no one. .not even me.. thought the level of 'disagreement' would be beyond 'bar fight' to something that vicious that approached attempted murder hahah. If they later got moved to JR-F great! That was the original plan after the swell of anger and hate which we considered we might see subsided... |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10366 |
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^ I wanted to defend them, that is why I made the offer. I used to love arguing on this site, not anymore.
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Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
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word... it was worth it John. As I said.. the PM's and they for f**k's sake real ..not made up... thanking me for the addition and reevaluations of the group and their music did make it worth it. but damnit.. the whole experience ruined genre team work for me and never was the same. Thus why I gave up my teams.. and soon took an extended break from the site.
as I alluded to.. in fact both sides won that.. SD stayed and was accepted so yeah for team good guy... but team bad guy won as well.. they drove me off before the 2nd shoe dropped .. the ABB were next in our gunsights for addition. For many of the same reasons SD worked... the ABB would have..
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 16356 |
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I could see SD maybe qualifying for crossover prog or even prog related but I think JR/F is the best cateogory for them. Personally I would definitely consider them jazz rock since that's a pretty broad term but not fusion.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10366 |
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Re ABB, I already offered to add them to JR based on their first two live albums, but then you split. Edited by Easy Money - August 02 2019 at 13:39 |
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Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
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jamesbaldwin
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 25 2015 Location: Milano Status: Offline Points: 5744 |
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Reading the comments, it seems to me to read the thread: THE PAST OF PA...
Instead here we're writing on the thread THE FUTURE OF PA... It's important to know the past, but it's important to make projects for the future. What about the future of PA? I think it would be appropriate to give space to the discussion of the reviews, and make a Top 100 of all times compiled by collaborators and reviewers.
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"Happiness is real only when shared"
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
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*spits a damn fine vintage of Russian Imperial Stout all over monitor*
I didn't need to know that and why didn't you just go ahead and add them regardless if I was around or not. You best not be playing Dickey tease with me on this so wait...if they've been cleared.. and just waiting for 10 odd years for me to return from the abyss. Let's do it man..you want to add them or me! It isn't like we are adding someone like.. I don't know.. f**king Buckethead
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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