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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 29 2019 at 09:47
I am a newbie on this site and I have come to the conclusion that most forum members like prog from 50 years ago more than current prog bands. Most discussions/threads are about Yes, King Crimson, Genesis, Pink Floyd, much more than newer bands. That’s ok… I guess.

 

I have also read threads that mention a lot of members left the website. Why? Did they tire of discussing the same bands from the 70’s or just lose interest in prog? So, I will pose a question. If the PA website survives for another 75 years will members still be discussing bands from the 70’s more than anything? Will the PA top 100 prog albums change?
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I doubt the site will last another 7.5 years, let alone 75.

Anyhow, it is the way it is. If you go to Progressive Ears, it is exactly the same. The Yes threads can be interminable, although there are a lot of very knowledgeable people on that site, and I contribute occasionally.

The 70's was the start of it all, and many of us are of an age where we have very fond memories. These bands were the founders of the genre, so it is natural they get more attention. This is precisely the reason, btw, that Prog magazine always carries the "stars" on its covers. A Yes cover will sell a damn site more than, say, some obscure modern prog band nobody barring the band members mums and dogs will have heard of.

That said, I agree with you. Modern music will be the future of the genre, and there is a lot of good stuff out there, and we do discuss and review it, to be fair. If you want more of it, then simply open up threads so we can look, listen, and appreciate.

With regard to your point about people leaving, as ever human nature is more complicated than that. There are a variety of reasons why people leave, many of them quite personal.
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

I am a newbie on this site and I have come to the conclusion that most forum members like prog from 50 years ago more than current prog bands. Most discussions/threads are about Yes, King Crimson, Genesis, Pink Floyd, much more than newer bands. That’s ok… I guess.

 

I have also read threads that mention a lot of members left the website. Why? Did they tire of discussing the same bands from the 70’s or just lose interest in prog? So, I will pose a question. If the PA website survives for another 75 years will members still be discussing bands from the 70’s more than anything? Will the PA top 100 prog albums change?


You get this far but leave out the elephant in the room.  Is there really going to be much deliberation and debate about MUSIC, esp non classical/jazz music, per se in another ten years?  Not the way things are going.  On the one hand, rents keep going up and live venues keep closing, making it harder and harder for bands to eke out any kind of living performing. On the other, if P2P was bad enough, now we have moved wholesale to streaming.  You'll need maybe 1 billion subscribers across the world to generate a total revenue of $12 billion annually at the abysmal rates these services charge.  And then, they will hand out the bulk to the genius wannabe Zuck who started it and his/her brilliant techies before handing over whatever remains to the musicians.  

With music getting so royally f**ked in terms of the economics, is it any wonder that discussion about new bands has dried up on this website?  It used not to be this way even six-seven years back.  Fewer and fewer albums get made, fewer still rise to the level where they can evoke the interest of any significant number of members here.  All very understandable and depressing. "One of the wonders of the world is going down, and no one cares enough."
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As long as bands from the classic era continue to attract new, younger fans, there is going to be demand for a site like PA.
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Believe it or not, bands from the classic era continue to be unearthed.

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From the perspective of the whole history of music, Rock is still the latest thing Tongue
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This is a comment that has been made before.  There are a lot of people that make this claim and complain about it, but there are very few that really do anything about it.  If you want to spread the good word about newer bands, that's fine, let's do it already.  I do it through reviews.  As far as the forum, however, your best response is going to come from bands that people already know, the ones they are the most familiar with.  But that doesn't necessarily mean that forums about newer music get ignored completely.  Many readers think, I must check that out, and then they forget about it, unless someone reminds them that they were going to check it out by giving more exposure to the band or album through reminders.  But the more you push it, the more people will remember.  I find the best results from getting people to listen come from the reviews, especially when the reviews are consistently good.  If you want to spread the word, write more reviews.  There are plenty of new releases in 2019 that still haven't been reviewed and I bet some of them are  excellent.  I keep finding them all the time. 
 
I have seen that you have tried to start discussions about newer bands before, and that's great.  But give us more to go on by doing reviews too.  Find some way to get the interest going and I bet you'll start getting responses.  But it won't help by pointing out an issue that has been pointed out before.  People have a somewhat common reference when it comes progressive rock and it usually seems to be with the older bands, use that to your advantage to present newer bands.  And most of all, don't give up, let people search in their own ways because if you start telling them what they should do, then they will tell you where to go, hopefully in a nice way.

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Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I doubt the site will last another 7.5 years, let alone 75.

Anyhow, it is the way it is. If you go to Progressive Ears, it is exactly the same. The Yes threads can be interminable, although there are a lot of very knowledgeable people on that site, and I contribute occasionally.

The 70's was the start of it all, and many of us are of an age where we have very fond memories. These bands were the founders of the genre, so it is natural they get more attention. This is precisely the reason, btw, that Prog magazine always carries the "stars" on its covers. A Yes cover will sell a damn site more than, say, some obscure modern prog band nobody barring the band members mums and dogs will have heard of.

That said, I agree with you. Modern music will be the future of the genre, and there is a lot of good stuff out there, and we do discuss and review it, to be fair. If you want more of it, then simply open up threads so we can look, listen, and appreciate.

With regard to your point about people leaving, as ever human nature is more complicated than that. There are a variety of reasons why people leave, many of them quite personal.

Some people harass others and some people just don't see the point of constantly dealing with the trolls and downright bad behavior. I don't blame them for leaving. Fortunately this site seems to be in a pretty good place right now and I have noticed very few incidents where people on here need a time out.Wink


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 29 2019 at 16:15
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^ It is a trade-off:  things are less heated around here which is good, but it makes for less passionate and dramatic exchanges and that attracts fewer participants & onlookers.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ It is a trade-off:  things are less heated around here which is good, but it makes for less passionate and dramatic exchanges and that attracts fewer participants & onlookers.


I disagree(at least with part of your premise). I don't think you need to resort to baiting and insults to be passionate about the music. I see plenty of passion around here without the jr. high mentality.
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^ That's true, you do, but things were just a bit more interesting when people were having fistfights, shouting matches, blasphemous outbursts, shadowy backstage dealings, quiet coups, and threats of preemptive nuclear strikes.

I can go either way.
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Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ That's true, you do, but things were just a bit more interesting when people were having fistfights, shouting matches, blasphemous outbursts, shadowy backstage dealings, quiet coups, and threats of preemptive nuclear strikes.

I can go either way.




Well, we have the news for that. LOL Not the prog news either unless it involves the members of Yes. Tongue
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It used to be MUCH MUCH MORE FUN around here. Now it's rather tame..
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As far as modern Prog goes, I am very open-minded and have found some things to be happy with. However, I discover new stuff at a snail’s pace. I don’t think that one fails as a Prog fan if one is not altogether current. A lot of new stuff I have gotten into is from old obscure artists who have been ignored throughout their careers and are still putting out interesting stuff. So, I might actually get to some newer artists once they’ve been ignored for sufficiently long too. I also still buy music, and I have limited money to do so given how much I spend on guitar pedals. I do enjoy reading discussions of newer bands if they’re descriptive enough to pique my curiosity.

I don’t think there’s any one reason for leaving the website, if leaving is even possible. I was just on a hiatus of sorts partly because life (grading papers, then traveling) got distracting and partly because I got a new phone, I didn’t know my PA password and I hadn’t gotten around to resetting it, because my email wasn’t set up after I reset my Apple password and forgot what it was. I’ve been around long enough to see some members return and newcomers join, but the losses in the ranks have been huge. Where the hell is Dean, anyway?
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Originally posted by TCat TCat wrote:

This is a comment that has been made before.  There are a lot of people that make this claim and complain about it, but there are very few that really do anything about it.  If you want to spread the good word about newer bands, that's fine, let's do it already.  I do it through reviews.  As far as the forum, however, your best response is going to come from bands that people already know, the ones they are the most familiar with.  But that doesn't necessarily mean that forums about newer music get ignored completely.  Many readers think, I must check that out, and then they forget about it, unless someone reminds them that they were going to check it out by giving more exposure to the band or album through reminders.  But the more you push it, the more people will remember.  I find the best results from getting people to listen come from the reviews, especially when the reviews are consistently good.  If you want to spread the word, write more reviews.  There are plenty of new releases in 2019 that still haven't been reviewed and I bet some of them are  excellent.  I keep finding them all the time. 
 
I have seen that you have tried to start discussions about newer bands before, and that's great.  But give us more to go on by doing reviews too.  Find some way to get the interest going and I bet you'll start getting responses.  But it won't help by pointing out an issue that has been pointed out before.  People have a somewhat common reference when it comes progressive rock and it usually seems to be with the older bands, use that to your advantage to present newer bands.  And most of all, don't give up, let people search in their own ways because if you start telling them what they should do, then they will tell you where to go, hopefully in a nice way.
  I think I may have enough posts to do reviews now (need to check on that, I think there's a minimum number of posts and then you can) and am considering reviewing Offa Rex, who I promoted to this site and they were added.  And will likely do once some things in my life are settled.  I do think that much of prog is less affected by time, much like classical music.  So no, I do not think there is no future for it.  




Edited by Snicolette - July 30 2019 at 06:24
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if there is still prog being made, this website will still be around and active, there's plenty of new fans including myself 
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the PA site will still be here in 7.5 years and longer i think.

i still keep coming back to read reviews and check out new stuff.  first time i have posted here in several years though. 

still enjoy the year end top 100 list.  have discovered several bands on those pages.

good stuff still showing up here.



Edited by rushaholic - July 29 2019 at 21:12
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We should be honest here. The future of PA has nothing to do with the future of progressive rock. 

It has to do with the website collapsing from its antiquated design and other neglect from he who shall not be named.

This topic is really a non sequitur. Do you complain about classical music for always referring to Mozart, Bach and Beethoven when there were literally hundreds if not thousands of other artists?

Same with jazz with Coltrane, Miles and Mingus always appearing in the conversation even though jazz has been around over a hundred years now and has spawned encyclopedias worth of artists.

Musical genres need mascots just like Disneyland and prog's happen to be the bigwigs like Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd, King Crimson and all those ancient bands that somehow still sound brilliant enough to continue to win over new generations. 

If  you pay attention to the forums, i've seen plenty of threads about Wobbler, All Traps On Earth, Porcupine Tree and just about any other artist that has caught on in the prog world.

So watcha talkin' bout?!!!! Wacko

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^ he's a Grumpy prog fan, what do you expect?  ;)
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The thing is though is that many revered prog bands (Gentle Giant , VDGG , PFM are the obvious ones) were never that successful in the first place. Prog was so dominated (commercially) by about 6 bands in the seventies it's ridiculous ( and I don't even need to name them)

So there are 2 tiers of discussion anyway and I doubt anyone left because there is too much chat about GG or VDGG. On the other hand we did have the 'ELP wars' when the site first got up and running. There were (supposedly) too many ELP threads that it got really nasty at times. There seemed to be deep resentment that this band was getting so much chat. I think the result was that many ELP fans  ended up leaving although a few like me hung on! If you wonder why their albums are seemingly underrated on this site then that is probably one reason.

In more recent times it seems to be more balanced in general and I see a lot of discussion. For me there is a lot of good stuff out there whether you want retro or something a bit newer. I wish I could spend time reviewing like I used to but I like to come here (on the forum) as it stops me thinking about work for 2 minutes and I feel I don't have to be deadly serious. Generally people are polite so that's nice!
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