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When I returned to PA after 10 years (due to the demand of an increasing amount of Dutch bands and artists to support their prog) I was shocked about the situation: so many good reviewers that had left, or stopped to write reviews, less attention for genuine prog (like so many overlooked new interesting bands from Latin-America, Spain and Japan), and a lot of cynism on the Forum. Nonetheless, there are stil some good and prolific reviewers. Important: the owner knows that the frustrated reviewers will leave, but there are always new reviewers that will replace them. Because writing reviews and seeing these published is a kind of ego-gratification thing, more or less part of the personality of every reviewer. And this is what the owner benefits from, however, in my opinion PA is going downhill every year, but it will survive, like the appreciation for the progrock dinosaurs. But it will never be like between 2004 and 2006, when reviewers could add bands and albums in freedom, based upon their motivation and knowledge of genuine prog, without the obstruction of those who consider themselves more important than serving the visiting progheads on PA. I consider this as the main problem on PA, so frustrating that reviewers call it a day. Or stop being active, like me, as a current prolific reviewer (400+ reviews) and updater of bios, I have done my best, I have been nice, but I am fed up with the uninspiring, unwelcoming, lacklustre and apathic situation here on PA. Yours truly, TenYearsAfter, aka Erik Neuteboom.
My own opinion. When you start introducing or allowing threads and comment on things like American Politics and Religion some people will alienate others as viewpoints differ drastically. This site is about the music - keep it there. I don't come here to see what others may or may not think about Donald Trump or about Boris in the UK - I come here to explore the music that I love.
When I returned to PA after 10 years (due to the demand of an increasing amount of Dutch bands and artists to support their prog) I was shocked about the situation: so many good reviewers that had left, or stopped to write reviews, less attention for genuine prog (like so many interesting bands from Latin-America, Spain and Japan), and a lot of cynism on the Forum. It all comes to me as a pretty lacklustre atmosphere. Nonetheless, there are stil some good and prolific reviewers. The owner knows that the frustrated reviewers will leave, but there are always new reviewers that will replace them. Because writing reviews and seeing these published is a kind of ego-gratification thing, more or less part of the personality of every reviewer. And this is what the owner benefits from, however, in my opinion PA is going downhill every year, but they will survive, like the appreciation for the progrock dinosaurs. But it will never be like between 2004 and 2006, when reviewers could add bands and albums in freedoom, based upon their motivation and knowledge of genuine prog, without the obstruction of those who consider them more important than serving the visiting progheads on PA. I consider this as the main problem on PA, so frustrating that reviewers quit. Or stop being active, like me, as a prolific reviewer and updater of bios (as TenYears After, aka Erik Neuteboom).
Hi Erik (I see you're in Aruba, now and I'm still in my Nood-Holland dunes),
I had no idea you'd returned... some two years ago, in terms of historical members, the place was still doing ok (but no more), but M@X had the terrible idea of installing that Captcha (I'm sure you've encountered it), which angered everyone, and quite a few did leave totally disgusted by inactions from him.
He finally gave in (roughly 9 months ago), but it was too darn late.
well for the perenity of the site, I'm not sure its
sukmytoe wrote:
My own opinion. When you start introducing or allowing threads and comment on things like American Politics and Religion some people will alienate others as viewpoints differ drastically. This site is about the music - keep it there. I don't come here to see what others may or may not think about Donald Trump or about Boris in the UK - I come here to explore the music that I love.
Disagree quite a bit... the forum's strength was its liberty of tone and it was part of its success...
Part of its slide was that there was a lid gradually put on top of it
Some memorable non-music threads and huge fights were (mostly) fun but sometimes painful
We've also survived many trolls and even good members going trolls.
I think PA will still be here in 2026. This site is an excellent resource. I don't see the main site or even the forums really going anywhere. There's too much magic here; someone would do best to archive said magic just in case.
SouthSideoftheSky wrote:
As long as bands from the classic era continue to attract new, younger fans, there is going to be demand for a site like PA.
This.
Tapfret wrote:
Believe it or not, bands from the classic era continue to be unearthed.
Also, this.
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
I disagree(at least with part of your premise). I don't think you need to resort to baiting and insults to be passionate about the music. I see plenty of passion around here without the jr. high mentality.
One thing I've noticed, after being a member of dozens and dozens of "niche" forums over the years (music and otherwise), is that there's always going to be what I like the call the "haughty, derisive" crowd. The small group of elitists that think their standards for artistic integrity represent some objective measurement everyone else must bow down to...lest they be considered a non-genuine fan!
SMN metal forums was by far the worst in terms of that type of Jr. High BS.
"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
As someone who's equally invested in Rate Your Music, i have to say that there are many bands that are on PA that are not on that site so as long as this site remains a relevant resource, it's going to stick around. Yeah, it may ebb and flow and not be the same as when it started but why should it be so?
<snip> I have also read threads that mention a lot of members left the website. Why? Did they <snip>
I’m pretty sure this is said on every forum on every topic: a bunch of the old-timers are gone because this or that forum sucks. It seems more likely that the number of missing old-timers is smaller than we think and that there are regular patterns of people, even longstanding members, joining and quitting most forums. Since they aren’t here to discuss why they left, we can only speculate.
[QUOTE=Grumpyprogfan] <snip> It seems more likely that the number of missing old-timers is smaller than we think and that there are regular patterns of people, even longstanding members, joining and quitting most forums. Since they aren’t here to discuss why they left, we can only speculate.
but there are some of us left...
no . smaller.... not likely at all.. this site lost not a few but a great many old timers. And I can point to exactly where the brain drain started...
M@X.. and f**king Torman Maxt...
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
The thing is though is that many revered prog bands (Gentle Giant , VDGG , PFM are the obvious ones) were never that successful in the first place. Prog was so dominated (commercially) by about 6 bands in the seventies it's ridiculous ( and I don't even need to name them)
So there are 2 tiers of discussion anyway and I doubt anyone left because there is too much chat about GG or VDGG. On the other hand we did have the 'ELP wars' when the site first got up and running. There were (supposedly) too many ELP threads that it got really nasty at times. There seemed to be deep resentment that this band was getting so much chat. I think the result was that many ELP fans ended up leaving although a few like me hung on! If you wonder why their albums are seemingly underrated on this site then that is probably one reason.
In more recent times it seems to be more balanced in general and I see a lot of discussion. For me there is a lot of good stuff out there whether you want retro or something a bit newer. I wish I could spend time reviewing like I used to but I like to come here (on the forum) as it stops me thinking about work for 2 minutes and I feel I don't have to be deadly serious. Generally people are polite so that's nice!
There used to be a decent sized contingent of metalheads, though. They've gone. Like simply disappeared. Maybe got tired of the DT ribbing (guilty as charged on my part) which they all seemed to be fond of. But Mike's gone and then there was Hugues, also not seen in a long, long time. Same with Pessimist/Liquid Eternity, many others.
Cert1fied was an interesting poster and contributor and also doesn't participate here anymore.
anyhow.. thanks for the heads up David.. yeah sort of right up my alley isn't it.
Anyhow... I agree with the earlier comment.. this likely has less than 7.5 years left in it than 75. And it isn't just any failure of the site, though it won't have helped it as the vibrantcy and passion that drove this site, and for the music itself has for the most part died off in the last decade or so. The site exists through a sort of inertia but how much longer will it...
the great prog revival gave birth to it and other prog sites... yet that revival ended in 2011. The day Nearfest cancelled.. and the great split between old farts and their nostalgia for the retro scene smashed right into the wall of the newer scene of progressive artists and fans. Let me repost one of teh greatest posts ever made on the internet regarding this music, the scene around it.
Jacob said: I'm just going to chime in on the original post, dunno what's been discussed over all these pages. I whole-heartedly applaud every prog festival organizer who has ever walked the earth for their amazing contribution to the entire prog revival. Without people like Rob and Chad and Greg and Steve and George and the rest, a lot of us in prog bands would simply be nowhere. Progfest and NEARfest in particular have been essential to the growth of Scandinavian prog in the 90's and noughties.
It just seems that the time has come now for prog to find a new way. The festivals have become, as was mentioned, nostalgia get-togethers. They have been artificial life-lines for stagnant acts, rather than fertile grounds for new, exciting acts. And those organizers who have tried to feature some new blood have been punished by a rather backwards-looking audience. As with NEARfest this year. I don't think blaming either the audience, the organizers or the bands has any virtue. What I think, is that the prog umbrella for too long has tried to shelter two very different things under its shade: On the one hand, the nostalgia scene, which features both the old acts that are still around, like Yes and whatever Italian band you care to mention, and "old-new" bands like Flower Kings and Transatlantic - bands that, though newish, cater mostly to very conservative audiences. On the other hand, the new progressive scene, which could include anything from The Mars Volta to Gösta Berlings Saga, and which really isn't a scene at all, especially considering that many of the bands themselves have no awareness of being part of a "prog scene". These two strands really are extremely different. There's plenty of people with a love for both (including, to a certain extent, myself). But to throw the typical fans of both scenes (the former, ageing, follicle-challenged geezers - bless'em all!, the latter young, dynamic listeners brought up to endless eclecticism and irreverence to genres - bless them too!), might just be too much of a stretch. Maybe it's time for a divorce. Let the geezers have their nostalgia-fests, and let the "new prog" bands get out on the regular rock circuit and compete with any other rock genres out there rather than put them in the geriatric ward of "prog" where the smell of old age will make them unpalatable to both the rock media and the major labels. No disrespect to either!!! :-)
And as an a propos: Prog labels that sign new, fresh and exciting bands should be careful how they market and present the bands. Selling them in the traditional way ("washes of mellotrons, recall Eloy in their heyday, rave reception at Bolivia Art Rock Fest (BARF)") will, quite simply, sell them short. It's a new world out there.
Indeed it is a new world out there, and many don't see it still being stuck into their favorite old bands or worse.. the whole retro prog scene that is as progressive as my left toe. See what any 'old timer' has seen has not as much been a decline in the forum per se.. the members we have here in large part are no worse than what we had here in the past.. they are just different and thus the forum has reflected it. Once the blood and semen ran down the streets in this forum.. now... it is just so polite. It has changed as has the bigger picture regarding the scene and this sites' place in it. As Jacob noted and foresaw in fact. it is the falling off of the cliff by the artists themselves.. and in very large part also the fans of those groups..
There was once a time we were literally besieged by artists wanting their bands to be added... for the exposure the site once offered. Now today.. pretty much crickets chirping. Those artists largely don't indentity with the prog scene.. or more accurately.. what it has become. A refuge of retro nostalgia prog.. but largely apathetic to new bands trying new sounds and styles. So the apathy has likely been returned and then some. They and their fans largely get on great without the site.
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
When I returned to PA after 10 years (due to the demand of an increasing amount of Dutch bands and artists to support their prog) I was shocked about the situation: so many good reviewers that had left, or stopped to write reviews, less attention for genuine prog (like so many interesting bands from Latin-America, Spain and Japan), and a lot of cynism on the Forum. It all comes to me as a pretty lacklustre atmosphere. Nonetheless, there are stil some good and prolific reviewers. The owner knows that the frustrated reviewers will leave, but there are always new reviewers that will replace them. Because writing reviews and seeing these published is a kind of ego-gratification thing, more or less part of the personality of every reviewer. And this is what the owner benefits from, however, in my opinion PA is going downhill every year, but they will survive, like the appreciation for the progrock dinosaurs. But it will never be like between 2004 and 2006, when reviewers could add bands and albums in freedoom, based upon their motivation and knowledge of genuine prog, without the obstruction of those who consider them more important than serving the visiting progheads on PA. I consider this as the main problem on PA, so frustrating that reviewers quit. Or stop being active, like me, as a prolific reviewer and updater of bios (as TenYears After, aka Erik Neuteboom).
Hi Erik (I see you're in Aruba, now and I'm still in my Nood-Holland dunes),
I had no idea you'd returned... some two years ago, in terms of historical members, the place was still doing ok (but no more), but M@X had the terrible idea of installing that Captcha (I'm sure you've encountered it), which angered everyone, and quite a few did leave totally disgusted by inactions from him.
He finally gave in (roughly 9 months ago), but it was too darn late.
well for the perenity of the site, I'm not sure its sustainability will be assured for another 15 years if some renovations (not just cosmetics) are not undertaken in the database, but whether that is achievable is a mystery. Whether the site should change hands for a new life is also dubious and a very much a gamble
We've also survived many trolls and even good members going trolls.
Nice to hear from you Sean (I think many don't know I am back), I remember very well that great Prog Archives meeting in The Hague (2006?), with PA members from the UK, France, Belgium (including you) and of course The Netherlands (including me), we ended with the entire group of 10 in a very cosy beer restaurant, but you were glad they served whisky too, haha!
That Captcha kept me from publishing a lot of reviews, so many strange signs that I decided to delete the publishing of my reviews.
And M@X …. well, he acts like the average arrogant millionaire, considering people as objects, he has no idea of empathy or how to talk in a social way, poor man, I am sure he is not really happy, very empty inside. And now I am gonna take my siësta (mid-afternoon on Aruba), I live in the morning and evening, bey.
^ Man, these are very harsh comments. I never met or talked to the guy so I won't go there...all I can say is that he doesn't seem to like music a great deal.
The future of PA?
The database will stay but the forum will probably closes it's doors eventually.
I predict we'll still be having these discussions hereabouts in a decade or more. The 2020s will bring us another crowd of new bands, new fans, and new sounds. Some will be the greatest music made in our lifetime.
The site where I spend most of my online time these days (a trivia site, and a great one at that) has been around since 2000, and still going strong. For being a forum, PA is doing quite well, in spite of everything. ProgEars lost a lot of regular participants when they changed servers a few years ago, and from what I can see does not get more traffic than PA. Other forums I know (not necessarily music-based) are all but dead. I don't see PA going away any time soon, but on the Web anything can happen.
^ Man, these are very harsh comments. I never met or talked to the guy so I won't go there...all I can say is that he doesn't seem to like music a great deal.
The future of PA?
The database will stay but the forum will probably closes it's doors eventually.
well... to be blunt my good friend. You haven't spent years involved with him so yeah.. I can honestly and with some degree of reason call him out for the motherf**king pond scum he is.
and he is why this site has such a short life span. forget the nice plattidues.. the peace and love and good dope of the music sustaining the site. This is and was always a money making venture for him. The piece of sh*t treated the man who started this forum and created it like a dirty sock... drove off a good many with his Torman Maxt stunt... and the list goes on.. and hey I'm being nice. He did give me my greatest forum victory over Ivan.. but that can only take one so far before one has to call a spade a spade.
There will likely be a day.. and sooner than later that he tires of this. He doesn't care about the music.. only the money he can get from the site and it will die. Far from accepting offers like mine of case of buttwiper and my seriously hot but completely batsh*t crazy ex wifes phone number as compensation for all the work WE put into this site.. he'll likely be like that cat we saw some time ago and want thousands for the site.
and who the f**k is going to pay that... thus the site will die...
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
M@x is a smart man. He used people's passion to run the site for him for free. In the end, it caused many people to get angry and leave (not because they realized how smart M@x is, but because they didn't get the power and recognization their egos demanded), but now, regardless of the state of the site, it is one of the most trustworthy and complete sources for prog music, so it will stay relevant for a long time.
Re David: He has tried to sell it in the past, but the asking price was very very high and there were no takers.
Edited by Easy Money - July 30 2019 at 13:59
Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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Posted: July 30 2019 at 06:07
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