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Jaketejas View Drop Down
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Gotcha Micky. I had a somewhat dangerous job, although probably not as dangerous as what yours sounds like, and I also come here to let off steam. Music is what I do in my limited spare time, and prog holds a special place for me. Our city played a big role in supporting prog bands, and I was lucky enough to have a unique opportunity to learn from one of the greats. If I'm not working on some music project, I start climbing the walls. Thanks for helping put the site together, and I hope they are regularly backing up the database.
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Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

The way I remember it, 2008 was the start of the major fights

and quite hilarious to think that some are still pissed-off after 10 years...une joyeuse bande d'attardés de 50 ans avec la belle maturité d'un kid de 12 ans, si tu veux mon avis.


People loved it here and the place was awesome  My honeymoon here lasted at least four years, before it got less pleasant
Power struggles (I turned down becoming an Admin a few times) and hidden agendas (trying to add to the datrabase whatever they wanted) made some act like pre-puberty kids in a sandbox... and I didn't always escape that either 


Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:


The way I remember it, 2008 was the start of the major fights
oh no man..  2006..  it was later it started getting nasty but early on it was them against us. Usually unpopular additions.. Iron Maiden anyone.. where the forum would go apesh*t and start hurling insults and claims of ruining the site. 

the funny thing was.. the forum grew up.. the forum itself more accepting but in return the collab zone and relations between some of teh collabs got progressiely worse until it culiminated in the murder death kill of one paritcular addition that was pure gore man..  I've blown some people away before.. but never like that. Mainly for never have been attacked like that. Brutal .and the best part.. for all the bloodshed about that particular addition..  not a peep out of the forum.

in fact.. got multiple PM's from members here thanking me for the addition..  saying my bio..and my reviews helped them look at that band differently and in a new light.  For that.. it was in a funny way worth the price of what that addition cost.


2006 means two years after the site's creation, and that sounds like way too short, but yeah, it got very nasty at one point, but I'd say in 2011 and 12 (that's 8 years ago, you know)

I'd place Iron Maiden's inclusion (at Joren's demand at first and Mike In Regalia afterwards... if memory serves, Jody was not in favour, but I was OK with it in Prog-related) around 2010.But the Prog-related often became Prog-Realhatred LOL
Which addition are you talking about?? ConfusedWink


Originally posted by micky micky wrote:


then there is Raff and that whole story.. all because of this f**king site. So yeah man.. to say it is importantto me is a vast understatement.  But where you are wrong is taking this site too seriously. Dude.. those days are a decade past. I've been in retirement for almost 10 years.. (wow.. time flies).. the site really is on autopilot.  No one is really in charge.. no real chance of re-energizing the site or giving it a kick in the ass.. so I just enjoy it and troll it in my own unique style.  Part of why I quit my job and started the countdown to an early retirement is the stress man.. I kid not about how f**king dangerous that job was and how many times I've come to being f**king killed. Taking this site seriously? sh*t...  I had real life to worry about. .this site has been nothing but a destresser and a relief valve. 


Well you & Raff are because of this site, right ??

Yes, it does look that way (auto-pilot), but that meant that the structure built was good
most of the stress on site came from the genre-teams (probably too autonomous, IMHO) and the breah down or Art Rock into three more genres (two of them being stupidly named, but no-one culd find better) and the ever-growing section of metal subgenres (I never even looked at what was included - I was beyond caring at that point)

I've always had the chance of having a relatively cool job with job-security, but at one point, I did think I'd better choose the job over the site.




Edited by Sean Trane - August 02 2019 at 04:02
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

The way I remember it, 2008 was the start of the major fights

and quite hilarious to think that some are still pissed-off after 10 years...une joyeuse bande d'attardés de 50 ans avec la belle maturité d'un kid de 12 ans, si tu veux mon avis.


People loved it here and the place was awesome  My honeymoon here lasted at least four years, before it got less pleasant


Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:


The way I remember it, 2008 was the start of the major fights
oh no man..  2006..  it was later it started getting nasty but early on it was them against us. Usually unpopular additions.. Iron Maiden anyone.. where the forum would go apesh*t and start hurling insults and claims of ruining the site. 

the funny thing was.. the forum grew up.. the forum itself more accepting but in return the collab zone and relations between some of teh collabs got progressiely worse until it culiminated in the murder death kill of one paritcular addition that was pure gore man..  I've blown some people away before.. but never like that. Mainly for never have been attacked like that. Brutal .and the best part.. for all the bloodshed about that particular addition..  not a peep out of the forum.

in fact.. got multiple PM's from members here thanking me for the addition..  saying my bio..and my reviews helped them look at that band differently and in a new light.  For that.. it was in a funny way worth the price of what that addition cost.


2006 means two years after the site's creation, and that sounds like way too short, but yeah, it got very nasty at one point, but I'd say in 2011 and 12 (that's 8 years ago, you know)

I'd place Iron Maiden's inclusion (at Joren's demand at first and Mike In Regalia afterwards... if memory serves, Jody was not in favour, but I was OK with it in Prog-related) around 2010.

But the Prog-related often became Prog-Realhatred LOL



Which addition are you talking about?? ConfusedWink





No, Iron Maiden were added in 2006. I remember because I did the addition myself, which stirred a hornet's nest. What my hubby is referring to, however, is the Steely Dan addition, whose fallout was extremely nasty (we are talking personal attacks here). This is the main reason why I don't like these discussions. What's done is done, and we have to learn to live what we don't agree with.
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Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:


No, Iron Maiden were added in 2006. I remember because I did the addition myself, which stirred a hornet's nest. What my hubby is referring to, however, is the Steely Dan addition, whose fallout was extremely nasty (we are talking personal attacks here). This is the main reason why I don't like these discussions. What's done is done, and we have to learn to live what we don't agree with.


Mmmhh!!!... I guess my time-clock has erodedCryWink

I don't remember Steely Dan discussions being such mayhem (I though it was worse for The Doors ... Or Iron Maiden, FTMLOL), except where to place them (I was for Prog-Related, and thought it was wrong in JR/F), but I guess I didn't libe it the way micky did


Edited by Sean Trane - August 02 2019 at 04:12
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Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:


The way I remember it, 2008 was the start of the major fights


 

oh no man..  2006..  it was later it started getting nasty but early on it was them against us. Usually unpopular additions.. Iron Maiden anyone.. where the forum would go apesh*t and start hurling insults and claims of ruining the site. 

the funny thing was.. the forum grew up.. the forum itself more accepting but in return the collab zone and relations between some of teh collabs got progressiely worse until it culiminated in the murder death kill of one paritcular addition that was pure gore man..  I've blown some people away before.. but never like that. Mainly for never have been attacked like that. Brutal .and the best part.. for all the bloodshed about that particular addition..  not a peep out of the forum.

in fact.. got multiple PM's from members here thanking me for the addition..  saying my bio..and my reviews helped them look at that band differently and in a new light.  For that.. it was in a funny way worth the price of what that addition cost.

Metallica was another addition that got a lot of people bent out of shape.  Heck, even Radiohead.  It's mindboggling to reflect on it today and realise that a lot of people got upset that Radiohead was added.  I mean, OK Computer and Kid A, for crying out loud?
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Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

But where you are wrong is taking this site too seriously.

I didn't say you are taking it too seriously. I said that you give the impression of...

the words you choose probably.

It happens very rarely but when I call someone an a****le, a motherf**ker or a cum-eater 'neo-lover' fa****, I'm really pissed-off and taking things very seriously.

Edited by Barbu - August 02 2019 at 08:44
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Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

...
Metallica was another addition that got a lot of people bent out of shape.  Heck, even Radiohead.  It's mindboggling to reflect on it today and realise that a lot of people got upset that Radiohead was added.  I mean, OK Computer and Kid A, for crying out loud?

I have no problems with the additions ... even though I am not a Metamariachi fan at all ... watching many of my neighbors sit on their garage doors on weekends, getting stoned hearing that band! Kinda over rated and boring for me, but they say the same thing about YES or GENESIS when I drive by and blow them out with the sound on my car, playing something loud on guitar to get their attention ... they have asked a couple of times, but I'm being cagey ... not telling them nothing ... you gotta find it on your own ... or your appreciation will not be there!

The only thing that bothers me, is that some of the subdivisions are insane and ridiculous, and I wonder if they were not defined by people that simply did not know music history ... and used the terms for their own definition instead ... soooooooooo geeeeeeekkkkkk that is! The geek is a better musician these days, and doesn't have to learn an instrument! Take that!

Symphonic is ridiculous, and its choices are even more so ... even GENESIS and YES, and so many other bands should/could all be a part of this ... but aren't! The term was used for the wrong purpose in my book.

The other side of the coin, is that ... from my perspective, I think there are a lot of minor bands way out in the far ends of the galaxy or just left field, that no one can handle ... but they should be included, simply to help DEFINE what they do and what it might suggest musically to most fans, when they are described as such and such. For example ... The Third Ear Band, defies description. For the most part it is probably best placed in the 15th and 16th century "music" BEFORE ... it became "controlled" and forced into a "staff". And that would be an important marker for the history.

For that matter, the site, should work on a history of some sort, and then clean up the definitions, so they fit better into the chronology of music, up to and including jazz in America and how it helped develop the progressive sound and music! It's not like many of those black folks were not improvising and jamming for a long time ... and everyone ignored them ... they are totally loved and appreciated today, although most "progressive fans" have no idea, or probably do not give a damn about the connection, or how it helped define the long cuts later ... for example, the Grateful Dead might have more of a connection to the jazz history of expanding music, than their connection to doing this within a classical style (very European) or into a rock style ... that is still being defined today!

PA will only have a future as long as it has some folks that can keep track of it and help it be maintained and cleaned up ... somewhere along the lines of this, I would like to see the reviews and definitions of each band get cleaned up a lot more ... so they can be better used as a quote material in other works, which would be something that could/might even bring in a few nickels later from rights and such! The whole introduction and show of the reviews has to be more intelligent and well defined and ... stop allowing WIKI from taking the lead on these things ... PA has the best folks to get this done ... but is not using them ... and sadly, I bet that most of them are helping clean up the WIKI stuff ... simply because we refuse to clean up our own house!
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Are you volunteering to help along, Pedro?
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

 
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:


No, Iron Maiden were added in 2006. I remember because I did the addition myself, which stirred a hornet's nest. What my hubby is referring to, however, is the Steely Dan addition, whose fallout was extremely nasty (we are talking personal attacks here). This is the main reason why I don't like these discussions. What's done is done, and we have to learn to live what we don't agree with.


Mmmhh!!!... I guess my time-clock has erodedCryWink

I don't remember Steely Dan discussions being such mayhem (I though it was worse for The Doors ... Or Iron Maiden, FTMLOL), except where to place them (I was for Prog-Related, and thought it was wrong in JR/F), but I guess I didn't libe it the way micky did

well.. seems you missed all the good ones Torman Maxt and S.D. hahah.  i do remember.. as you were not exactly an angel (though few of those really existed in the early wild west days of the site).. but as the conflicts became more ugly, more personal, and thus more bloody but were largely behind the scenes...you had pretty much checked out of the site by then.

See man.. if we are going to be cathartic here..  see we all dealt with the hate from the gen pop in the very early days.  Iron Maiden. and yeah Madan..  Metallica.. even f**king Radiohead.  However that was like those little hot dog things nipping at your ankles.. you get them one good kick and they suddenly lose their bite.  Where things got nasty is when fullly armed and mean as hell collabs started shooting each other.  What was worse. .and made the S.D. addition so bloody... was when the personal attacks originated from not one's fellow collabs.. but the next level up. Kiddies draw a knife on you.. easy.. shoot them down.  However when you have a gun drawn on you you have two choices .. get shot.. or drop a nuke on them.. so me being me..  I f**ked nuked the person that pulled .. not disagreeing on the merits of the addition as most any rational person would.. but making it personal.  Be thankful you missed it as you apparantly did.. it wasn't a pretty sight.  It did mark the end of the first era of the site... and why I soon after turned over my teams to my 2nd's .. and left teh site for years. Oh yes.. that addtion was unanimously cleared by both xover AND JR/F.. but Martin and I decided it should before being added and once it was.. it was best that I take it first. .then eventually move it to where it really belonged.. with him. However .. the admin team did for one of the very rare times on this site actually consider removing an 'approved' addition.. but it stayed.. wasn't not removed.. nor moved to PR where it had ZERO place. 

we evaluated music here .. not band names... both Martin and I and our teams saw that.. others though did not as perhaps out of the RPI fallout where yeah.. I took a metal pipe and shoved it up the ass of the admin team for jerking me and my ISP team up teh ass for so long and not deciding that question and i went over their head. I made some enemies.. but in turn.. they made a far worse more enemy.

so much for the movie I suppose.. though one could dream of what Peckinpah would have done with those couple of years of what happened at this site.. much of it behind the scenes for as I said. The kiddies on the forum.. were far more mature than the goddamn collabs at that point hahaha
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Micky,

Appreciate the attitude, sense of humor, and the work you do on this site. Thanks.
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bah hah and a pfff.. but thanks.. and I'll accept that for a great many who made this all happen in those chaotic but so very exciting and fun early years where we did built the best prog rock resource to be found.
 
Those long gone, and those still around that.. even as the old days.. know I have no problem stepping forward and taking the heat and the knives and gunfire that came with the unpopular or controversial decisions.....but  for once..  f**k man.. I'll take a few damn kudos.  Beer
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SD was moved to JR because I told you if I could move them to JR, then I could defend their addition, which I did.
Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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This site has definitely had it's hiccups. It will continue to have hiccups but it seems to me a lot of the rough edges have been smoothed out. I'm only an observer so I don't know all the details. I was actually on here under a different user name(which I will not divulge)and can tell you that at times I could tell that things weren't going as smoothly as they should have. One example in particular is that it took way too long for that one Nad Sylvan album to get added(and his profile in general). His one album came out and I think it was like six months before he(and the album)finally got added despite the fact he was making a name for himself in prog circles and it seemed like you could find information on him on every prog site except here. I would like to think that's something that won't happen again anytime soon. Some of the band suggestions still get ignored but I think it's sometimes because the collaborators either never heard of them or don't think they are important enough to take heed. I wish people could be more on top of that but since I'm not a collaborator I'll try not to complain too much. Tongue Other than that this site seems to be in a good place now. Micky might be the only pirate on this ship at the moment but he's a good pirate(if there is such a thing). LOL Prog pirate. That would be a cool user name. Too bad I didn't think of that a long time ago. :P
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Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

SD was moved to JR because I told you if I could move them to JR, then I could defend their addition, which I did.

perhaps Hugues old age is catching on LOL... not doubting you John but honestly only remember Martin (Alucard) and Richard Heath being involved with talk this.... and Martin as he was head of his teams as I was mine talked long of this.. and we both agreed than they would go in Xover. which they were when they were added.. thus when the guns were drawn.. they came after me .. not him.. which was the plan as I enjoyed a good bar fight. However as alluded to.. no one. .not even me.. thought the level of 'disagreement' would be beyond 'bar fight' to something that vicious that approached attempted murder hahah.  If they later got moved to JR-F great! That was the original plan after the swell of anger and hate which we considered we might see subsided...
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^ I wanted to defend them, that is why I made the offer. I used to love arguing on this site, not anymore.
Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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word...   it was worth it John.  As I said.. the PM's and they for f**k's sake real ..not made up... thanking me for the addition and reevaluations of the group and  their music did make it worth it. but damnit..  the whole experience ruined genre team work for me and never was the same. Thus why I gave up my teams.. and soon took an extended break from the site.

as I alluded to..  in fact both sides won that..  SD stayed and was accepted so yeah for team good guy... but team bad guy won as well.. they drove me off before the 2nd shoe dropped ..  the ABB were next in our gunsights for addition. For many of the same reasons SD worked...  the ABB would have.. 
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I could see SD maybe qualifying for crossover prog or even prog related but I think JR/F is the best cateogory for them. Personally I would definitely consider them jazz rock since that's a pretty broad term but not fusion.
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Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

word...   it was worth it John.  As I said.. the PM's and they for f**k's sake real ..not made up... thanking me for the addition and reevaluations of the group and  their music did make it worth it. but damnit..  the whole experience ruined genre team work for me and never was the same. Thus why I gave up my teams.. and soon took an extended break from the site.

as I alluded to..  in fact both sides won that..  SD stayed and was accepted so yeah for team good guy... but team bad guy won as well.. they drove me off before the 2nd shoe dropped ..  the ABB were next in our gunsights for addition. For many of the same reasons SD worked...  the ABB would have.. 
Another thing that made me different from others in the argument, I actually listened to every one of their albums, I'm not a fan, but some songs are okay. Anyway, after listening to every single album I confirmed that about 2 or 3 of their albums are prog rock. Did anyone else in the argument listen to every album?
Re ABB, I already offered to add them to JR based on their first two live albums, but then you split.

Edited by Easy Money - August 02 2019 at 13:39
Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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Reading the comments, it seems to me to read the thread: THE PAST OF PA...

Instead here we're writing on the thread THE FUTURE OF PA...

It's important to know the past, but it's important to make projects for the future.

What about the future of PA?

I think it would be appropriate to give space to the discussion of the reviews, and make a Top 100 of all times compiled by collaborators and reviewers.
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*spits a damn fine vintage of Russian Imperial Stout all over monitor*

I didn't need to know that and why didn't you just go ahead and add them regardless if I was around or not. You best not be playing Dickey tease with me on thisLOL  

so wait...if they've been cleared.. and just waiting for 10 odd years for me to return from the abyss. Let's do it man..you want to add them or me! Beer It isn't like we are adding someone like..  I don't know.. f**king Buckethead 
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