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Barbu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2019 at 13:54
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

I have never given any lp a 5 star rating...not one.
In all fairness is there an album that is that perfect ..? Really..?

I'll give 4.9....maybe 

;)

It's well known that Pawn Hearts is prog perfection.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2019 at 14:30
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

A good review, and reasonably objective rating, requires a deep sense of understanding of the subject matter and expression. If I were willing to take the time to feel adequately familiar with the music, and similar means of expression, I'd be likely to appreciate it in various ways. While I can appreciate a certain modesty there (though it doesn't always indicate modesty as I've seen acerbic ones which say that), I don't like reviews where the reviewer makes it clear that they don't get it. I have yet to find a review of value where the person said they don't get it, and if a person doesn't "get it", the individual rating is not likely to be of value to me. I have seen various highly critical reviews that are well thought-out and nuanced, and a good case has been made for the poor rating. They have made the problems clear, and those don't just reflect on what they enjoy. There's ever a certain bias, but the more one knows, the better and more precise one may be with the criticism.

If I'm going to put the effort into writing music reviews, it will be particularly because I wish to share my appreciation for an album. Perhaps if the writing was its own reward, and I didn't mind taking the time to attentively listen to music that holds no appeal, then I would review more, shall I say, substandard releases, but unless I felt that I "got" the musical expression, and could liken it to similar music that I also "got", then I still wouldn't want to.
I have seen one star music reviews that start along the lines of:
"I don't get why anyone would like this sh**???!!! It's total crap. I've tried a few songs on UTube from this crap "genre" and they sucked as much as this crap sucks. The album starts with suck, fast-forward, it still sucks!
Don't buy this! Get Camel-Toe instead as Camel-Toe is great and sounds nothing like this! One star! I'd give it zero if I could cause it sucks that bad. P.S. It sucks!"

A review from ignorance is not good. I wouldn't want to write music reviews, or rate music, about the kinds of music I'm not into. I do think those who pay closer attention to the album, and give it multiple spins and time to sink again are much more likely to find something to appreciate, else why waste time on it when you could be listening to something you enjoy? That said, I'm all for trying to step outside of one's comfort zone, but don't be too quick in publicly criticising it. You might even grow to like it.

Well said.   One thing I hate is when someone says "in my opinion"--   we know it's your friggin' opinion, it detracts from the review, weakens the writer's position, and as you point out reveals a lack of confidence.


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2019 at 15:45
I feel slightly bad about it now but I admit to getting on a member's case here for giving a five star rating to an Andrew Roussak album. The release had no bass sound. How can you give a five star rating to an album with no bass? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2019 at 16:30
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I feel slightly bad about it now but I admit to getting on a member's case here for giving a five star rating to an Andrew Roussak album. The release had no bass sound. How can you give a five star rating to an album with no bass? LOL


How did Prince's "When Dove's Cry" create a funk sound that made it to #1 on the pop charts with no bass. Same reason.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2019 at 17:51
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I feel slightly bad about it now but I admit to getting on a member's case here for giving a five star rating to an Andrew Roussak album. The release had no bass sound. How can you give a five star rating to an album with no bass? LOL


How did Prince's "When Dove's Cry" create a funk sound that made it to #1 on the pop charts with no bass. Same reason.
 
Same thing with Meghan Trainor's "Its All About that Bass".  I wonder if she knows what bass is because there is hardly any bass in that song. Its all about the treble.  Dead
 
 


Edited by TCat - October 08 2019 at 17:51

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2019 at 18:13
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I feel slightly bad about it now but I admit to getting on a member's case here for giving a five star rating to an Andrew Roussak album. The release had no bass sound. How can you give a five star rating to an album with no bass? LOL


How did Prince's "When Dove's Cry" create a funk sound that made it to #1 on the pop charts with no bass. Same reason.

I never realized that song had no bass in it. I guess you got me there. LOL However, it's always been probably my least favorite song on that album so now I think I know why. Sorry but I have to have bass. Tongue


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - October 08 2019 at 18:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog Sothoth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2019 at 18:27
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

I believe some reviewers here at PA and other places like the ZON give out 5 star ratings too easily. Some on almost every release. I am guilty of this on occasion also. When your favorite band/artist puts out a new release you may automatically rate it higher than it should be.

Well, this is a prog rock site, which would attract major prog fans who want to share the prog they like with other prog fans. So I would expect an impassioned stance towards favorite prog albums. 

If acts like Celine Dion, Michael Bolton, Imagine Dragons and BTS were added to this site due to some seismic cosmic dimensional shift in the universe, then I would expect a bit of a different ratio between 5 and 1 star ratings here.

Sure, there maybe a few raters here who only love a few prog groups enough to join this site while actively hating all the rest, but I would guess that they would show up, blow their wad, and disappear soon afterwards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2019 at 18:50
I give 5 star ratings to perfect or close to perfect albums. Sometimes i round up 4.5 albums if i think they deserve it.

Perfect doesn't mean every track is equal. Some tracks are designed to be filler but the album has to flow and it has to be innovative.

Occasionally an album isn't exactly innovative but it simply perfects a style that has been around but hasn't reached its logical conclusion.

Sometimes an album just blows me away so substantially that it gets a 5 star rating because it's so far out of the box that it is incomparable to anything else and just takes me to that magic music place.

I have no problem giving any album 5 stars if it really deserves it.

There are many albums that i love personally but don't give five stars because they have flaws.

I always rate and review based on the album's merits, not my personal fondness however it can influence whether i round up or down given our whole star system.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2019 at 00:44
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

I believe some reviewers here at PA and other places like the ZON give out 5 star ratings too easily. Some on almost every release. I am guilty of this on occasion also. When your favorite band/artist puts out a new release you may automatically rate it higher than it should be. 

For me a 5 star release should be one that has not one skipper or filler track. All tracks must be superb, not just great, but the best ever. Desert island disc. If one owns 1000 releases I really believe only 5% (approximately 50) of those should be rated 5 stars.

A three star release should be one that is just average, not the bands best work. Or a release with several great songs followed by several bad songs. An inconsistent release. Some reviewers don't rate any release lower than a 3 and that puzzles me.

A one star release should be one that every song does not resonate with you. It could be a band outside of your comfort zone, or just a horrible release by your favorite band or artist. I don't understand reviewers not wanting to give any one star reviews. Are they trying to protect the artists feelings, or just don't want to be seen as negative? Wouldn't an honest review (good or bad) appeal to artists more than those who stroke the artists egos and rate it amazing every time?

Just wanted to get some opinions on this topic.
 
 

sometimes it get's political if we don't like a particular album being so lowly rated. I admitted this with Glass Hammer's Three Cheers For The Broken Hearted which I gave 5 stars for.

However should we allow personal taste to come into it? I gave 1 star to Jeff Wayne's War Of The Worlds because I just don't want to listen to it anymore but obviously it's not a complete write off. I think we are in a very grey area here and highly subjective opinion is up against the intellectual need to recognise that maybe something is not that bad despite not liking it. Generally I let my personal stance win out but that is probably wrong!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2019 at 01:09
Lol, this place is so bored and dead we've now come to accost our own star rating system.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2019 at 04:48
The distinction between "personal taste" and "objective/an album's true merit" is problematic and a very fine line.

On one hand, as I wrote earlier, I can make a distinction between appreciating something for very personal reasons that I wouldn't necessarily expect to generalise, and for reasons that can be explained and communicated and where there is a certain amount of agreement about key criteria for rating music. However, even these are very much up for interpretation and change over time, and they are ultimately the result of social exchange and communication, often dominated by a few people's personal tastes. Ultimately I think that objectivity doesn't exist, at least not in the sense of being truly independent of individual tastes. The music experience is created by the listener, and there is no music experience without the listener's personality, experience, and taste. What there is, as mentioned earlier, is an honest attempt to make sense and understand every music on its own terms (where "understanding" doesn't mean "finding its objective value" but rather "finding individual access"), to go beyond the purely intuitive personal reaction to music, to "work" on the own perception and to discover, and communication that tries to relate to criteria and experiences that are meaningful and informative for those who read the review. It's about good deep listening and communication, not about objectivity and "true quality".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2019 at 07:27
I want to thank all who responded with comments. I don't agree with most of the opinions shared on this post but that is just me. I can't express myself well with words and that is why I don't review. Ratings are all I'm cut out to do.

Thanks to everyone who takes the time to write reviews. Most of them are worth reading on this website, even if I don't agree. Not so much on the ZON.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2019 at 08:11
One of the benefits of having just a 5 tiered rating system is that it forces you to choose between clearly demarcated criteria. We may not agree with the criteria but advocating increasing the resolution to say, awarding half stars only serves to confirm that said criteria are considered insufficient for our purposes. All of which begs the question: what is the purpose of a review? is it to provide your own personal appraisal and insight to the music or simply to provide a comparative 'score' to help with a potential purchasing decision?
I like to think that PA are above the likes of TripAdvisor (Krautrock cosmiche references aside)Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TerLJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2019 at 09:12
Originally posted by TCat TCat wrote:


 I also think Ambrosia's debut album is a 6 star, and not so many people would go along with that.
 

I would definitely go along with that!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2019 at 10:57
Music definately does have objective qualia. The tempo, recording style, studio location, difficulty in reproducing etc...but the rating is always judged on subjective analysis...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2019 at 12:00
In my case, it needs to be more than just a great record to get five stars. It needs to stand the test of time. Some great albums eventually sound dated, like most of the Beatle music for example, whereas others remain always relevant, even if a few decades have passed, and those are the ones that get the 5 stars, at lest on my own list of favorite albums of all time. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote friso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2019 at 06:44
Giving the five star ratings is also about sharing your love for music. Let's not be to harsh about such a fine thing.
I'm guitarist and songwriter for the prog-related band Mother Bass. Find us at http://www.motherbass.com. I also enter stages throughout the Netherlands performing my poetry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2019 at 07:55
Some very knowledgeable people may try to give truly objective reviews and ratings, but I guess that subjectivity unavoidably comes into play in most cases.
If I review now my list of reviews, most of which were written more than 5 years ago, I still stand by my 5-star ratings. Perhaps I would only demote one or two albums to 4 stars. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2019 at 08:10
My ratings are skewed high because I don't want to rate an album I don't know well and I never get there with albums I dislike...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2019 at 08:56
^ Surely a rule of thumb...but I reckon that certain classic prog releases have been targeted for outrageous downgrading by reviewers who may even never heard it! I had a conversation with a young geezer in a local beer shop who was wearing an Opeth T-shirt and he trotted out a 1976 cliche about over indulgent pomposity culprits Genesis, Yes and ELP...but he admitted he had not bothered to listen to any of them!
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