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Second tier of "big" bands? |
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BrufordFreak 
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 Topic: Second tier of "big" bands?Posted: November 24 2019 at 16:29 |
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If, as Psychedelic Paul asserts in his current "Elimination Round" poll, the "Big Six" are Pink Floyd, ELP, Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, and Jethro Tull, who are the "Second Big Six"?
Rush? VDGG? Renaissance? Gentle Giant? Kansas? Hawkwind? Focus? Can? Tangerine Dream? PFM? Gong? Soft Machine? Caravan?
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Drew Fisher
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Psychedelic Paul
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Posted: November 24 2019 at 16:37 |
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The Elimination Round poll isn't my poll.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: November 24 2019 at 17:07 |
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All of these are contenders. The only major ones you left off are Camel, Nektar, Kansas, Marillion and Porcupine Tree.
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dougmcauliffe
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Posted: November 24 2019 at 17:12 |
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Interesting idea, though I would include some of these in my personal top tier. For the sake of this thread lets just assume my personal top tier consists of the aforementioned "big six." B Tier would look something like this:
Camel Gentle Giant Van Der Graaf Generator Rush Wobbler (are we only doing classic prog bands?) Harmonium PFM
Edited by dougmcauliffe - November 24 2019 at 17:12 |
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Grumpyprogfan
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Posted: November 24 2019 at 17:17 |
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Next 6. Now the big doz of prog.
Kansas Rush Gentle Giant Frank Zappa Dream Theater Thank You Scientist Edited by Grumpyprogfan - November 24 2019 at 17:18 |
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dougmcauliffe
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Posted: November 24 2019 at 17:19 |
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No Camel? Anyways for me off that list it goes VDGG>Gentle Giant>Rush>Kansas>Dream Theater (All awesome) Still haven't heard enough of the other two to make a fair judgement.
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Fischman
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Posted: November 24 2019 at 17:26 |
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Assessing a group like Rush in this context can be a challenge. They are my all time favorite band. But how much of their output is actually prog? So while I call them my favorite band in any genre, I'm not sure I'd call them my favorite prog band.
My next six, casting a fairly broad net over prog, would include Rush Dream Theater Kansas Camel Gentle Giant Spock's Beard
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: November 24 2019 at 18:18 |
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Rush
Camel Kansas VDGG GG Marillion You have to have at least one post seventies bands so I pick Marillion. I don't think any of the later ones with the possible exception of PT(DT are more metal)have been as influential. Just about every modern neo band has been influenced by Marillion.
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Nogbad_The_Bad
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Posted: November 24 2019 at 18:24 |
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Camel
VDGG Caravan Soft Machine Gentle Giant Hatfield and the North |
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: November 24 2019 at 18:27 |
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The important thing is you have VDGG, Camel and GG on there. Caravan are somewhere up there but not sure if they would make a big six(maybe big ten). Soft Machine are up there too but maybe a bit too jazzy or too fusiony(is that a word?). H&tN only put out two or three studio albums so may as well have Anglagard, UK or National Health. Good list regardless.
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dougmcauliffe
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Posted: November 24 2019 at 18:30 |
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I agree those are the three essentials, seems to be a consensus here.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: November 24 2019 at 18:39 |
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I have even seen Gentle Giant listed in big five and big six lists. That's how important they were(are). That said I don't think there are many non prog fans who know about them. I can't say the same about Porcupine Tree or King Crimson. You just have to be a big music fan but not necessarily a prog fan to know about them.
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Blacksword
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Posted: November 25 2019 at 02:04 |
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I would put Rush in the top tier, based on album sales and artistic influence and stature within the genre and the music industry. The certainly outsold and had a much further reaching influence on other artists than King Crimson ever did.
These discussions about which divisions bands are in, are difficult and very subjective without agreeing the criteria. Even if the criteria is 'progressiveness' there is broad disagreement about what that actually constitutes. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Lewian
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Posted: November 25 2019 at 03:43 |
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VDGG and Gentle Giant should be uncontroversial. The number six is pretty arbitrary. Just because there's a "big 6" it doesn't mean the next tier has to have six as well. Further contenders in my view: Camel, Rush, Renaissance, Porcupine Tree, Marillion, Can, PFM, Magma. If it's not just bands then surely Zappa, maybe Mike Oldfield. Artists like Radiohead and Kate Bush are easily as big as these, but of course not central to prog. My personal next four choice would be Can, Art Zoyd, Cardiacs, Talk Talk. I realise that won't find a majority. If it's gotta be four of the above contenders, probably Zappa, Can, Rush, and one of Camel or Renaissance.
Edited by Lewian - November 25 2019 at 03:47 |
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Psychedelic Paul
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Posted: November 25 2019 at 05:27 |
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My Best of British Second Tier of Prog-Rock bands:-
Barclay James Harvest Camel Caravan Moody Blues Procol Harum Renaissance
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BrufordFreak
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Posted: November 25 2019 at 07:27 |
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Great points! I think I was thinking of legacy or "influence upon other musicians" i.e. contribution to the creation of other bands and/or music. That's why I included the Canterbury artists cuz they had such a HUGE impact on other musicians at the time (or, at least, that's what all of the Robert Wyatt fans would have us believe). While it's true that Rush has a massive sales advantage over KC and VDGG and GG, has their their sound and style had as much influence? (Probably, yes!) Has the influence of Camel or Marillion or Dream Theater (or Wobbler) had as wide-spread of an impact? It feels obvious to me that ELP, Tull, Yes, Genesis, Crimson, and Floyd have all had HUGE and lasting impact in terms of inspiring other artists that have come after. Can the same be said of your choices for a "Second Six"?
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Drew Fisher
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BrufordFreak
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Posted: November 25 2019 at 07:31 |
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F*#king A, Lewian! You get me! I like your choices: Can, Art Zoyd, Cardiacs, and Talk Talk (Post Rock/minimalism) have certainly all had their impact on the artists of the recent 25 years. Have Zappa, Camel and/or Renaissance had such an impact???
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Drew Fisher
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BrufordFreak
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Posted: November 25 2019 at 07:31 |
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Love the British bias! A great argument can be made for the second tier being all British, n'est-ce pas?
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Drew Fisher
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Psychedelic Paul
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Posted: November 25 2019 at 07:49 |
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A noticed all of the Prog-Rock bands in the first tier were British, so I thought I'd make the second tier all British too.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: November 25 2019 at 09:55 |
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Just to make it more interesting if we wanted a list of second tier non British it would look like this:
Rush Magma Gong Can PFM Eloy Triumvirat Goblin |
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BrufordFreak wrote: