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Help me understand krautrock and canterbury
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Ozric_Gnome View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 17 2020 at 07:05
I'm a huge prog fan and have experimented with many different genres and styles but every time I listen to Krautrock or Canterbury i just end up getting bored quite fast. I feel that for some reason those genres feel quite emotionless.

Can anybody recommend a way to get into Canterbury and Krautrock?

Just for an idea of where I'm coming from, here are some of my favorite bands: Opeth, Pink Floyd, Yes, Cynic, Pain of Salvation, Comus, Spock's Beard, Gentle Giant, In The Woods..., Bachdenkel, Leprous, and Porcupine Tree.

Thanks!Big smile
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Personally I’d go to the Krautrock/Canterbury pages and then sample some of the highest regarded albums off of jootoob
Both “genres” contain very different sounding music spanning from fusion to psychedelic to avant to electronic and everything in between.
Good luck

Edith: but sure two easy-to-get-into albums are:
Caravan - In The Land Of Grey And Pink
Can - Saw Delight

Edited by Guldbamsen - January 17 2020 at 08:30
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Points: 3426 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2020 at 08:27
I'm not a Krautrock guy so I can understand the OP's position.
Now as far as Canterbury goes: try National Health or Egg. As a fan of all the bands you listed I think you might like those two the best...
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Krautrock and Canterbury are definitely not emotionless. just listen to these:

a Canterbury example:



a Krautrock example:


A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Hey! I’m just getting into Canterbury as well. Caravan and National Health convinced me, though Hatfield and the North is another favorite. Try land of Grey and Pink a couple times.
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Points: 14110 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2020 at 08:44
I wonder what you have listened to already. Surely typical Krautrock is more spontaneous and less organised than the bands you have listed as your favourites (except early Pink Floyd, who had a huge influence on Kraut) and it's surely not for everyone. One special thing is Can's hypnotic style; you may or may not get it but once you've caught the bug, Jaki Liebezeit can drum as monotonously as he wants but he will never get you bored again. The first album of Tago Mago is a prime example, but all their albums through to Soon Over Babaluma have that hypnotic quality (actually you may prefer Future Days and Soon Over Babaluma sound-wise, but that's just a guess). Later they change quite a bit but Jaki is still Jaki so his magic is still there, if hidden a bit better. A different spin on hypnotic is given by  Neu! Actually I have been bored by that for quite some time but can finally appreciate at least their first album. It's easy to criticise minimalism, but there's no way around the fact that it's very original and special. 

By the way, Holger Czukay's later solo albums are quite different, intricate experimental sound alchemy if that's your thing (it may not be, doesn't really resonate with your list of favourites, but then RIO or Progressive Electronic may not be that alien to you). Not sure whether he is well classified as "Kraut" but there we are.

Of Amon Düül II, Wolf City is probably an easier accessible compromise between their free jamming and transparent sound structures than the more famous earlier Yeti and Tanz der Lemminge. 



Edited by Lewian - January 17 2020 at 08:49
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

...
Of Amon Düül II, Wolf City is probably an easier accessible compromise between their free jamming and transparent sound structures than the more famous earlier Yeti and Tanz der Lemminge.  


Welcome to the forum ... I'm worried about saying anything here ... I'm not sure that the answers you are looking for, will be here ... and we do not know how well you listened to things ... to be able to help you better. In both cases, partial listens (not complete, or just skipping around), will likely leave you more confused than otherwise.

To better understand these, and the early periods in "progressive" music, one has to open up the noggin to appreciating IMPROVISATION and where it takes a person ... this is not what you and I would consider a top ten song, or a "composition" per se ... and to listen to AD2's YETI, and realize that is an "improvisation" is down right crazy, and not exactly something that most guitarists and bands can even consider doing ... thus, a lot of fans, are not likely to be able to appreciate these things and where they came from.

This is just a series of thoughts ... not necessarily a reality, but the question is scary ... for me. Not to mention that "understanding" is not exactly a science, or idea ... it's a very individual thing ... but in the arts, "improvisation" has always been important ... except in "progressive music" as defined by many websites, where the definition is about 5 bands, and not the music itself from around the world ... and this is probably the root of the problem.

Remember that "krautrock" was not just about some music ... it's "style" and "ability" was used in film, literature, and theater ... for just as long as in the rock music area ... and I'm not sure that one can really understand one section without seeing the other ... it's like ... Klaus Kinski in those days, is just as much "krautrock" as anything else ... his free form improvisations FORCED the camera to follow him, not anything else ... and there is a lot of this in the music itself.

Canterbury, for my tastes, is not as improvisational and valuable as an art form in so many disciplines, as the German style was in my view of things. But it is fun, and sometimes nutz and musically insane, but folks that were ... quite obviously ... very well educated musically and were making changes intentionally to see where it took things ... !!!


Edited by moshkito - January 17 2020 at 09:43
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Originally posted by Ozric_Gnome Ozric_Gnome wrote:

Can anybody recommend a way to get into Canterbury and Krautrock?
There is no way to get into any music. If you don't like it, move on. Some members have suggested some good choices. Don't force yourself to tolerate anything, no need for multiple listens for it to sink in, it won't work.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - January 17 2020 at 10:13
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Lewian View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

  no need for multiple listens for it to sink in, it won't work.

Apparently it doesn't work for you. That doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone.
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by Ozric_Gnome Ozric_Gnome wrote:

Can anybody recommend a way to get into Canterbury and Krautrock?
There is no way to get into any music. If you don't like it, move on. Some members have suggested some good choices. Don't force yourself to tolerate anything, no need for multiple listens for it to sink in, it won't work.

I get where you’re coming from, but I think it entirely depends on the individual. Speaking for myself here but some of my absolute favourite albums now were absolutely dreadful/boring/impenetrable when I first span them. They sort of snuck up on me in a sly ninja-fashion and suddenly, by magic or some sort, sounds and odd melodies from before transform into something that just gels.
Conversely, I find certain albums I originally bought for their almost ‘instant gradification-factor’ now seem rather dull.
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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

  no need for multiple listens for it to sink in, it won't work.

Apparently it doesn't work for you. That doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone.
You need to stop attacking all my posts Lewian. It doesn't work for anyone.
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by Ozric_Gnome Ozric_Gnome wrote:

Can anybody recommend a way to get into Canterbury and Krautrock?
There is no way to get into any music. If you don't like it, move on. Some members have suggested some good choices. Don't force yourself to tolerate anything, no need for multiple listens for it to sink in, it won't work.


If I went by this way of thinking I would not be a prog fan
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Lewian View Drop Down
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Points: 14110 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2020 at 10:53
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

  no need for multiple listens for it to sink in, it won't work.

Apparently it doesn't work for you. That doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone.
You need to stop attacking all my posts Lewian. It doesn't work for anyone.

If I disagree with something, I won't stop writing that.
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I'm not an expert either but like most of what I have heard in those two categories especially Caravan and Can.
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Chill pill time. There’s a new guy here asking for recs to get the low-down on some of the more..erm approachable bands/albums from Krautrock/Canterbury. Let’s keep that going shall we

P.S. Grumpyprogfan: When you phrase posts the way you do, you’re bound to get some blowback every once in a while.
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Well...his name is 'Grumpyprogfan'.....




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Originally posted by Ozric_Gnome Ozric_Gnome wrote:

I'm a huge prog fan and have experimented with many different genres and styles but every time I listen to Krautrock or Canterbury i just end up getting bored quite fast. I feel that for some reason those genres feel quite emotionless.

Can anybody recommend a way to get into Canterbury and Krautrock?

Just for an idea of where I'm coming from, here are some of my favorite bands: Opeth, Pink Floyd, Yes, Cynic, Pain of Salvation, Comus, Spock's Beard, Gentle Giant, In The Woods..., Bachdenkel, Leprous, and Porcupine Tree.

Thanks!Big smile

As stated before, the site defined parameters of the two sub-genres on their respective pages will give you the most complete definitions. Ultimately, these are primarily geography based subs with a few outliers. The simplest why to look at them sound wise is to think of where the majority of bands within would fit if these subs didn't exist. Krautrock has a lot of avant-garde/experimental feel, infused with psychedelia. Canterbury bands tend to have an old-school fusion motif. There are others here that will be able to guide you toward the more accessible examples of Krautrock. The only band that really spoke to me there was Faust, and that was for a couple later albums (checkout "Something Dirty"). I have several of the "classics" from Can and Amon Duul II in my collection. I revisit periodically, but still not making the connection. 
Canterbury also took awhile for me to really sink my teeth into. The band that really pushed my over the top was Supersister. Try anything from their first 4 albums. "Present from Nancy" and "Iskander" are my favorites, though many here do not like the latter. 

Anyway, listening is a journey, not a destination. Don't force it. Something you listen to now that doesn't stick may sound completely different to you somewhere down an alternate contextual path.






 

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BaldJean View Drop Down
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Points: 10377 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldJean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2020 at 12:04
the whole "Vive la Trance" album by Amon Düül 2 is pretty accessible too and in my opinion better than its average rating in the archives


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Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

the whole "Vive la Trance" album by Amon Düül 2 is pretty accessible too and in my opinion better than its average rating in the archives
Thanks BaldJean, I enjoyed listening to that one you posted above.
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Lots of recommendations already, but I think you should try first side of Can´s Tago-Mago. To me it´s one of the best music ever made, whole album is also really great but goes lot more experimental.

Also Faust IV is my big favourites.

And maybe you should try also some Kevin Ayers, for example first "Joy Of a Toy" or "the Confessions Of Dr. Dream".
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