Pictures at an Exhibition |
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Mortte
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 11 2016 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 5538 |
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BTW Here´s Wigwam´s version about "Finlandia", I guess it shares the opinions, but I really love it´s rawness (and it´s in a great way added to Losing Hold):
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Dopeydoc
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 05 2016 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1366 |
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Mussorgsky: great prot-prog of the 19th century.
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Mormegil
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 03 2010 Location: NE PA Status: Offline Points: 6470 |
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I dig them all. Good music is good music . . .
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Welcome to the middle of the film.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26227 |
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Talking of The Endless Enigma (well Moshkito was!) I would strongly recommend the album The Three Fates Project which was something Keith wanted to do for years. The orchestral version of Endless Enigma is wonderful. I prefer it to the original version it's so good! Yep Keith could compose lovely music but people associate him with the stage antics and so he is often seen as inferior to Tony Banks and Pete Bardens who are perhaps seen as 'cultured'. It's just perception. Someone ( I think it was Hercules) mentioned that Keith could be sloppy. Certainly true. He was never a precision player like the afore mentioned Banks or Bardens. He was an 'ideas man' . He was interested in pushing musical boundaries and in creating a new form of classical music as he saw it. He did though apparently have massive respect for other players like Banks , Kerry Minnear and Jon Lord , the latter being a particular favourite of his. Edited by richardh - March 29 2020 at 03:02 |
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Progosopher
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 12 2009 Location: Coolwood Status: Offline Points: 6396 |
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I have never been fully satisfied with any of ELP's versions, but then I knew the full piece before I heard EPL do it. The Ravel orchestrated version was one of the first classical records I bought and I still love it. Then I found the original piano version, and in some ways I like it more and other ways I like it less. Then I discovered Leopold Stowkowski's orchestration, which I also love and highly recommend.
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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iluvmarillion
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 09 2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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A bit off track, but while I think ELP lost it after their fourth album, I rather like Keith's piano concerto and I'm sorry some people booed it. Works doesn't come off because the individual pieces in the double album don't knit together. Maybe with another producer and a reduction in length to a single album the album might have worked. Bands like ELP when they get involved in orchestras tend to get a bit over ambitious. Procol Harum come to mind as one of the few who can pull it off. Pink Floyd another one.
Back on track I voted all versions. I like the piano version. Not sure who composed the orchestral version. Was it Ravel, because I like that as well? ELP may not have improved on the orchestral version but it's certainly interesting to listen to. Take your pick which live ELP version you prefer because they're all a bit different.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26227 |
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The most famous orchestral version is the one by Ravel but there are a number of other versions including one by the founder of The Proms (Sir Henry Joseph Wood) that takes place every year at The Royal Albert Hall ( although not this time I imagine)
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16222 |
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Hi, Of all the shows by ELP that I have ever seen on the tube, I like to say that the antics is what most of them were after "for the fans" ... and this is sad, in many ways, because the music takes the back seat ... and again, there was one concert that Keith did in LA that he was at the piano for 12 to 15 minutes and the bootleg had people boo'ing at 10 minutes ... and honestly ... if my name was Keith Emerson, I would get up and walk out ... and state something like ... I love music. You don't! And walk! But listening to that bootleg, I can honestly say ... that if my name was Keith, I would have cried on the way home, and probably say ... never again in LA. It sounds bad, but sometimes an audience (even here!) needs to eat some serious ugly crow ... the idea that the audience is the boss and the player/musician is the slave, is just scary and something that hurts "music" in all its aspects. I never thought that he was less of a precision player than anyone else, however I think that he could tell that sometimes his fingers weren't right, and I think he used that as a hint/link to something new. "Mistakes", even in rehearsal, are often the biggest leads into something new. However, as he had issues with his hands and wrists in his elder days, I have a feeling that he was already having issues with his hands in the early days, which made him look like he was not as precise. But he certainly knew how to adjust and probably hide it better than many! And I think he DID push the boundaries (I like your wording on that!), and seeing someone like Rachel Flowers show that side (how else you gonna introduce Tarkus to your bandmates?) on a piano ... and instead you and I end up seeing what a great composer he was!
Edited by moshkito - March 31 2020 at 06:36 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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The Anders
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 02 2019 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 3529 |
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There are more than one classical version. I know at least one by Borodin and one by Ravel (which I think is superior to Borodin). As for the ELP version, I have always had mixed feelings about it. Some passages are great, and I like the original songs that appear. But unfortunately the plot is somehow lost for my part when all of a sudden they begin jamming on a 12 bar blues form. It makes little sense in the context of Mussorgsky.
Edited by The Anders - March 31 2020 at 08:01 |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19630 |
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EDIT:
Whooollley crap, Pedro and I agreeing on something. I must really consult , cos I'm scared now Edited by Sean Trane - March 31 2020 at 16:52 |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 32844 |
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Crap indeed, if "scatred", then one should consult a doctor as blood in the stool can be a very serious thing. It has happened to me.
By the way, I didn't notice anyone mention Mekong Delta's Pictures at an Exhibition. Edited by Logan - March 31 2020 at 16:31 |
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
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My very first ELP album back in ‘87. Still my favourite. I haven’t ventured into other versions.
I think the sound of this album is utterly brilliant. |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29625 |
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Sean Trane beat me to adding another version you should check out. I like all the variations on it.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26227 |
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I'm not sure myself. Carl Palmer's symbals and high hat are way too muted and the organ is too 'clean' for my taste. Have you ever heard the 1970 Lyceum version? It was part of the film of the band that was released into the cinema at the time. The Baba Yaga section on that version is mighty and shows ELP at their devastating best IMO. Other parts are not so good. The Old Castle/Blues Variation is much better on the album but in general I prefer the rougher sound of the 1970 Lyceum performance to that of the 1971 studio album.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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To be fair I have not listened to the full orchestra version fot 30 years and never heard the piano only version....ELP version is exceptional especially the old castle moog solo...probably Emersons finest...
Edited by M27Barney - April 05 2020 at 02:43 |
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iluvmarillion
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 09 2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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Interesting discussion. Of all the different versions I prefer the first from the documentary of the Isle Of Wight festival; that is the video of the performance of Pictures of an Exhibition, not the CD of the performance which came out later. That is vastly inferior. It's Keith's incredible attack on the Hammond organ where he stretches the notes and Carl Palmer's amazing ability at being able to sustain the beat while Keith is doing his act, all the time Greg Lake hiding himself in a corner trying to figure out what to do. This is what I love about Prog Rock. It's not always about the technical proficiency but more about the surprises that it brings up. Someone mentioned Rick Wakeman's comic ability as well. In my view what ELP brings to the table at the Isle Of Wight festival is better than anything that The Nice were doing earlier. However post 1977 ELP for various reasons is inferior to what pre 1970 The Nice were doing.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26227 |
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That video of the Isle Of Wight is sadly just based on 10 minutes of film as the BBC decided to switch the filming off shortly after ELP arrived on stage. The Nice actually were pretty damn brilliant at times. I love their instrumental stuff especially, Davison and Jackson were a great rhythm section backing Emerson to the hilt. Contrastingly, ELP by 1973 were deep into the sci-fi electronic approach that was a million miles away from the organ attack style of the Nice. However there was a nice reminder of what The Nice could do when Moraz (doing a more than passable impression of Emerson) linked up with Davison and Jackson. Refugee is one hell of an album!
Edited by richardh - April 07 2020 at 14:36 |
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Squonk19
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 03 2015 Location: Darlington, UK Status: Offline Points: 4718 |
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We think alike - I posted that on a prog rock Facebook site about a year ago, thinking I'd get lots of responses along the lines of "Yes, we all knew that" or "Yes, Greg mentioned it himself in the past", but didn't. Is it a well-known fact amongst ELP fans? |
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“Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.”
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iluvmarillion
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 09 2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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Never got over Yes stealing Patrick Moraz from Refugee.
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