Prog musicians juggling music career and work? |
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miamiscot
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 23 2014 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 3432 |
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There's a reason I retired from the music biz...
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The Prog Corner
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16190 |
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Hi, If I may suggest, don't sell yourself short. You just never know what is going to happen, and how things will turn out. It might be a slow starter and all of a sudden a couple of ears "get it" and things run from there. I, personally, don't think that it is a good idea to do 2 things at once, and like to think that concentrating on one thing is better all around, but this is me, and though now retired, I have more time to spend on writing and don't have to worry about concentration. I have always thought that the "completeness" in someone's work always shows up. For many the "confusion" I see is how many influences show up, as opposed to the following of your vision that can usually only happen when you can concentrate on it, unfailingly. With having to let it go for work and such the sad thing is that coming back to it, the next night is not the same thing, and those changes end up making for something that goes in too many directions, and I have always thought that this is one of the weakest parts of a lot of "progressive" music out there. Not "centered" enough for it to show a very special and great sense of "self". The very best of luck ... whatever you do, don't quit on yourself!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Aksnitd
Forum Newbie Joined: July 11 2021 Location: The universe Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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I've just started down this journey. I only released my first song a day ago :) But the fact of the matter is I'll always be a musician regardless of how much money I make. I make music for it to be heard, and working a job to pay the bills is fine with me. If I can make some money off of it to pay for some gear and software, that'll be fine too. I'm in it for the long haul. I don't expect overnight success at all, particularly since the prog community is so small. It is large overall, but the number of people who will listen to me won't be that large.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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If music has come down to "can you earn money off YouTube and Spotify", then it's a tragic reflection of what it once was.
Count me out, I'm not lowering myself to that.
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ajfennewald
Forum Newbie Joined: August 31 2020 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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Isn't Youtube monetized if the artist has an official channel? I think the rate is even less than spotify though. Some bands have every song on youtube officially (babymetal is one I know of)
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handwrist
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 19 2019 Location: Lisbon Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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I also just realized you purchased the album, so thank you for that as well.
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handwrist
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 19 2019 Location: Lisbon Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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Thank you very much! It's funny you say it's cinematic because I kind of approach it as a soundtrack to a non-existent movie in my head. Glad you enjoyed it and 'get' it.
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Snicolette
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 02 2018 Location: OR Status: Offline Points: 5975 |
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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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And if you need help laying down a vocal track, feel free to hit me up.
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Boboulo
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 21 2020 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 661 |
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I'm not a musician, I've never really held a music instrument in my life. A common fan. But I just want to share with you those words that I read in an old zine, actually in an interview with Ian Anderson. Asked
what his lesson from the Underground days was, he replied, "Only
economically secure people can dream. Others are still pursuits for the
secret of success."
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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Well I still haven't learned my lesson and I'm preparing to enable my home set up for home recording of guitar and bass tracks. Hit me up maybe we can make an internet-based prog PA supergroup album or something?! PROG ARCHIVES UNION lol.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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Awesoreno
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 07 2019 Location: Culver City, CA Status: Offline Points: 2889 |
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One silver lining to the pandemic could be that, once it's over, many people will be ITCHING for something interesting to do. Maybe a bombastic performance art scene is upon us. I hope so. Looking to put on some SHOWS. I think there's still a market for unusual live stuff.
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Awesoreno
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 07 2019 Location: Culver City, CA Status: Offline Points: 2889 |
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Wow. Wish we could play together. We could use some real musicians.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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(It's amazing, Mosh actually agrees with what I'm saying, he just can't be bothered to read the posts due to personal animosity he's fomented.)
(Mind you, I can't be bothered reading his, either. ;-) ) If there's a solution to all of this, I really don't know it. It's always been assumed that live gigs will make money, at least in door / beer money / merchandise sales. I think, at the end of the day that it's questionable if audiences will still attend live gigs, to be honest. The world, and audiences, have changed. Most just want pap / pop and treat music as background noise which doesn't have to be paid for. There is the point that people don't create new stuff because of "fear", well, I tend to think that any musician who just wants to release the same old commercial crap isn't a proper musician and we're talking "music" and "product" here. I still tend to think that there is a market for something unusual and live - like the UFO club or Zodiac Arts Centre. Of course, both of those were short lived ventures. However, I keep reminding myself that I'm middle aged, this isn't my scene any more and I'm 30 years beyond it. So I could be totally wrong.
Nonetheless. If musicians are left - on their own - stuck in bedrooms with a computer, never playing together or getting even the chance to play live - or just playing boring cover versions if they do - then the whole music scene will stagnate and die. If it's not dead already. Nor is it about money, it's about music. Two separate matters, often confused. |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16190 |
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Hi, Now you know why I am so against the corporate thing in film and music, and in the arts in general. The controls of the media and the arts are in the hands of the same folks, and they only provide the stuff that they think will make them money ... which means, nobody else will get a chance. Film, for a while, went to video to get away from the corporate controls, but now that all the TV outlets are corporate owned, Netcrap, Hulaballoo, and all the other folks are just pushing "their own product" ... a search for a name director in either one of those or Amazon, gets you 745 listings of their own shows and only 15 mentions of that director somewhere down the line ... that you will be lucky to find! And us, we do nothing about it! And continue voting for top tens and the supposed "best" that the media tries to make sure we eat!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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chopper
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 19952 |
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There are two members of PA would be able to comment on this - Simon Godfrey (Tinyfish,, Valdez) who is now a full time musician and Guy Manning (Manning, Damanek etc) who I believe is not. Simon hasn't been here for a while but I think Guy still posts occasionally. It would be nice to hear their point of view.
I've been gigging for around 45 years and fortunately I've never had to rely on making money from it, which is just as well as being an amateur musician has cost me loads of the years. My current band struggled to get gigs (pre-COVID) as most of the good local one are already taken by established bands. We'll probably do 2 gigs this year (if our December one goes ahead) and that nowhere near covers our rehearsal expenses but I'm not in it for the money. Which is just as well.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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As dark as it sounds, nobody really knows what the point is anymore other than sheer love of music. A great film music composer in India, who scored more than 1000 films (yeah, the Morricone of India pretty much) remarked a couple of years back that the act of composing for a film has become as make believe (and empty) as films themselves. Like going through the motions even though you know the engagement is not what it used to be. Speaks volumes when somebody who gave up his entire adult life, including the joy and responsibility of being a father to his children, to music gets that bitter about the current situation. And this is not some nostalgic rambling. I have seen the cultural relevance of music drop off steeply in just the space of two decades. Even the pop hit purveyors knows this. A hit song is no longer an EVENT in the way it used to be; they're just coasting along making their millions off dispensable and forgettable songs but even they make fewer millions than they used to. And yes, it has happened because of technological changes that are well nigh irreversible now. But people should just acknowledge that it all adds up to a tough environment for a musician, tough, that is, even from the perspective of what a career as a musician meant anyway. Wilson's then depressing warning from Sound of Muzak (one of the wonders of the world is going down/No one cares enough) has sadly come true.
Edited by rogerthat - August 25 2020 at 03:25 |
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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You always made the bulk of your income as a musician, whether locally or touring, through live gigs. That was the deal. Your largest up-front sums were from gigging. Your door cut and merch cut after all expenses paid. Record sale royalties were icing on the cake after the fact and you didn't rely on that. The label support to get you in front of larger crowds was the purpose; even the label knew that. Your album was advertising for your live shows.
That entire model is gone; the point isn't shows anymore. In fact, it's only getting harder to book live events with the current state of things.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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Also, harkening back a bit on what others have said about finding musicians, etc. - I've tried on 3 separate over the last 4 years to try and get a project going, for which I have three songs written to get things started. The best extreme metal band in my area can't handle the riffs and it's kind of embarrassing tbh. I have a background in jazz and I'm self-taught on fretless bass and guitar, and it's honestly unsettling how few people are actually musicians; they're just dudes with guitars going by ear. Nothing wrong with this at all, we all start here; but as any of you know, being a prog fan that sh*t infects your writing style and you want mixed meter and odd time signatures, etc. I find 9/10 people I jam with treat anything outside of the pentatonic scale as going to require weeks of personal time, which they won't invest anyway, to "figure that riff out".
The double-f**k is I've progressed even further because I still play daily, on my own. So, the divide between myself and others only widens so I'm basically painted into a corner of unusability until I release my own sh*t LOL.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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Spot on post is spot on. Most musicians make the erroneous assumption their creativity can overcome market demand and variables on its own. It never does. The reality is most people do not give a sh*t about entertainment until super specific times or unless its marketed insanely heavily and constantly AT them. Most smaller acts don't have those resources, and economics takes over from there!
Exactly. One of my favorite bands, their frontman once said in recent history "I'm done making records, even with label support, because it's like building a Rolls Royce and coming back out and seeing it f**king gone."; that was pretty apt IMHO. There is no incentive for musical investment on the part of the artist, and this thus creates a widening feedback loop of low-hanging fruit computer "musicians" that simply don't give a sh*t and have no problem pumping out crap for views/likes/follows...so they can almost always monetize something non-musical, like fashion, phones, affiliate BS, etc.
It does seem weird to be talking about art in a similar way to a consumer product that requires advertising campaigns to stimulate demand, but I suppose if creating it is to contribute to funding your livelihood, one has little choice. Other than to do something else for profit, that is. We already do this though with larger acts on festival bills, and those are still seeing record low attendance. They have to crank the price up per ticket to offset lack of attendance. Add the current COVID scare, and the event industry is in deeper than it ever was before, even with a half-decent economy from like 2010-2020 (arguable of course, just a generalized point). You'll see bands doing those meet and greet packages; a new novelty you can't download! That's all that's left to monetize, and only the biggest of the big get away with it and are still pulling in record lows. Dave Mustaine just released a book conveniently all about the period of his fans' favorite recording of his, Rust in Peace. Nothing escapes economics, not even the legendary Megadeth!
Welcome to my life, homie. I've been in dozens of bands and made dozens of recordings very few will hear. My biggest was my professional bass playing debut on Zealotry's debut record. My face was in Terrorizer magazine...and I never got any further than that even with all those connections. That band got dropped from their label and still releases uninspiring doom metal, with the inability to get booked consistently on bills EVEN IN BOSTON!!! That whole stint cost me like $1,500 out of pocket and I had to surrender royalties to leave the band without owing anything. You're better off making what you want to hear for yourself at this point, and letting someone accidentally hear you listening to it because then they'll probably be intrigued LOL. It was at that point that I realized I chased that goal, made it, and became a glorified traveling t-shirt salesman that was somehow costing myself $2 for every $1 that I made... |
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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