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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2021 at 12:31
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

I absolutely detest these attention seeking "reaction" posts. 

Doug is probably one of the better ones, but you get some fat kid from nowhere getting his face on screen going "umhummmmmmm " whilst listening to music he doesn't have a clue about.

Almost as bad as unboxing videos. An absolute waste of electricity and storage space. 

Hi,

I agree to a point, but not totally.

The thing that bothers me, is him simply showing us the names of the chords and some changes, as if they were something major in the history of music. It does not, for me, make music "superior" because of these chords, or their changes. 

To me, it's about the composition and how it "makes sense" (for lack of better words), as a composition that stands out for its quality and design, and the chords and changes are a part of it, but not something that makes it special.

I don't mind looking at some of these things in a classical way, however, I think that he is not exactly making these more visible and explain why they are "better" or "worse", if there was a measuring stick or scale to place these things on. 

All in all, if I have a response to some of the stuff that he does, is that it really is, for me, too much secondary material within the progressive realm, and sometimes I just can't get my ear around these things at all ... they don't excite, or click, other than notes, and I'm not convinced that this is what rock music is all about! PERIOD!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... favoritism is not an artistic merit! www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2021 at 12:56
I definitely would say that Doug is one of the better ones, in his way. He has an academic and composing background in classical music, so I wouldn't think to compare him to some fat kid (one shouldn't be sizist, although I favour slender). I found talking about the chords and things interesting at first, but, and this is a problem I have with reaction videos generally, it's not going to be that insightful. I preferred one where he talked about what he really knew rather than just reacted to something new. This is crowd-pandering to me, and I'm not totally convinced by his sincerity (he wants to please, even if he has been critical when it has come to some more out-there Prog). Another issue I have with him is that he is very conservative listener ultimately, and if one wants to talk about progressive music, truly progressive music is not conservative. It breaks free of convention, it twists genre expectations, it non-canonic (as opposed to Prog aa a genre commonly, which might seem unfortunate). He's getting stuck in generic thinking, and his ultimately orthodox attitude when it comes to music shows to me. That said, I haven't watched many of his videos.

As a general thing, I'm not big on reaction videos and would rather listen to a good music podcast that goes into depth (not that I do as I listen to other kinds of podcasts and I like audio dramas -- listened through Neil Gaiman's The Sandman for audible again -- wonderful. They'll be making a Netflix series based on the graphic novels, but I digress). ;)

I'm obviously not Doug's kind of core audience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2021 at 16:02
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Is it though? I think there are tons of reaction videos with some spotlighting prog albumms for sure(mostly the most well known)but I don't think it's getting significantly more exposure than any other rock subgenre (probably far less than some). It's certainly possible that youtube has helped spread the word about prog but I don't know how much. 
When is the last time you heard Spocks Beard, TFK, VdGG and Magma on YouTube?? (I don't think he cared for Magma at all LOL)
As well most rock fans have no clue who Riverside is, so I think he has listened to his fan base an reacted to non traditional prog rock.
It's all meant for entertainment and in his case he is trying to delve deeper than others by describing the musical elements, rather than just saying he likes it, that's cool or wow!!!

I have no idea how much YT has helped but it is out there now where before it was not....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2021 at 18:16
Quote It's all meant for entertainment and in his case he is trying to delve deeper than others by describing the musical elements, rather than just saying he likes it, that's cool or wow!!!

I definitely agree with this quite a bit. That's why I started gravitating toward reaction channels like Doug, Lost in Vegas, and Key of Geebz. They actually pause the music from time to time to analyze a passage instead of just staring at the Youtube video and saying absolutely nothing. Reaction channels are usually pretty terrible, but once in a while there's a diamond in the rough... just depends on what the reactor actually says (or doesn't say)

I especially love Lost in Vegas, because it's incredibly cool to see two hip-hop guys delve into prog and metal music - and not only enjoy it, but really break it down and explore it. I'm a hip-hop fan as well, so it's awesome to see two musical worlds collide like that. 


Edited by Necrotica - October 14 2021 at 18:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2021 at 19:02
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Is it though? I think there are tons of reaction videos with some spotlighting prog albumms for sure(mostly the most well known)but I don't think it's getting significantly more exposure than any other rock subgenre (probably far less than some). It's certainly possible that youtube has helped spread the word about prog but I don't know how much. 
When is the last time you heard Spocks Beard, TFK, VdGG and Magma on YouTube?? (I don't think he cared for Magma at all LOL)
As well most rock fans have no clue who Riverside is, so I think he has listened to his fan base an reacted to non traditional prog rock.
It's all meant for entertainment and in his case he is trying to delve deeper than others by describing the musical elements, rather than just saying he likes it, that's cool or wow!!!

I have no idea how much YT has helped but it is out there now where before it was not....

The last time I heard them on youtube was probably the last time I searched for them and listened to them on youtube. It's kind of funny that you mention both Magma and Spock's Beard beacause I incorporated both of them in a little song I made up(ok, stole the melody from something else is more accurate). 

There is a network of prog fans out there who could be recommending stuff(including lesser known stuff) to him and others. I'm just not sure how many new converts there will be other than younger folks discovering prog through friends, family, etc. They say the stuff you get into in your teens is what continue to listen to later on so that explains why I still like prog and why so few people my age(early fifties) are into prog. They simply weren't into prog back then because they didn't know about it and if someone were to expose it to them now they might think it's weird garbage. However, someone who's a classical composer could obviously be an outlier and appreciate it even if he didn't discover it when he was a kid. Nontheless I get the feeling most people around my age who got into music as a teen are listening to glam metal(ie hair metal), rap, thrash metal, grunge and classic rock(not that there's inherently anything wrong with any of those). I think the only "metal" album I had as a teen was a vinyl copy of "Paranoid." These days I like the more tradtional heavy metal stuff but that's because prog metal sort of led me to it. I wasn't really much into it back then.

Anyway, as far as people discovering prog through youtube you could very well be right and I hope you are. However, it's hard to say who is discovering it(what age group etc.) and how much. I kind of feel like more people are discovering prog these days through different bands than most of us "slightly" older folks did. ;)


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - October 14 2021 at 19:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2021 at 01:08
Hey! Davesax! Leave the fat kids alone!
I've got 99 problems but a fat kid reacting to music ain't one

Seriously if a fat kid finds joy interacting whilst listening to Tool for the first time (because Tool-fans are all over youtube reccomending everyone to react to Tool, aren't they?) going "wow!" and "awesome!" - it warms my heart just thinking about it.  

-Anyway my main problem is that I think this exceptionally gifted and articulate listener we're discussing, is mostly wasted on largely uninteresting material. Which could have been interesting if he was more critical. But I've enjoyed a few vids and will surely watch again if the right track, artist or band appears.

I don't know what an "unboxing video" is, and it seems I better leave it that way.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2021 at 02:36
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Hey! Davesax! Leave the fat kids alone!
I've got 99 problems but a fat kid reacting to music ain't one

Seriously if a fat kid finds joy interacting whilst listening to Tool for the first time (because Tool-fans are all over youtube reccomending everyone to react to Tool, aren't they?) going "wow!" and "awesome!" - it warms my heart just thinking about it.  

-Anyway my main problem is that I think this exceptionally gifted and articulate listener we're discussing, is mostly wasted on largely uninteresting material. Which could have been interesting if he was more critical. But I've enjoyed a few vids and will surely watch again if the right track, artist or band appears.

I don't know what an "unboxing video" is, and it seems I better leave it that way.




My only - but rather big - problem with the Reaction phenomenon is everybody gets busy watching reaction videos... and no-one has time to listen to either new songs by a band on Youtube or good covers of older songs.  This is the American Idol phase of Youtube where something that adds very little value from the perspective of music becomes the most popular vehicle. You may say that I am exaggerating here but this is exactly what Heline who runs the Classical Flutist channel said (though she didn't call it a 'problem' because she doesn't want to lose clicks).  She said when she uploaded, like, one original composition on her channel, she instantly lost not only views but even subscribers.  They are that ruthless about pushing Youtubers to put out ONLY reaction videos, lol.  So ruthless they wouldn't dare listening to classical flute (surely that can't be that bad for their eyes and ears?); nope, just reactions, please! 

It's why vocal coaches who provide little by way of singing instructions on their channel and do nothing but react, react, react are the most popular on Youtube now (as opposed to 10 years back when only videos by coaches who put up actual tutorials like Ken Tamplin or Robert Lunte got the most clicks).  It's another matter that I don't particularly like Tamplin or Lunte but one guy I won't name was basically doing covers a few years back and now he calls himself a vocal coach and reacts with zero critical input on the performances he reacts to. 

This is no different from silly shows pushing out the prestige productions or infotainment but TV channels could keep the infotainment programs even with lower viewership because they were playing to different markets and wanted the niche as well as the mass market.  Youtube eliminates that distinction (as the internet already has done in essence for music in general). And it doesn't necessarily lead to good outcomes. 

All that said, Doug is by far the best of the ones who do reactions on compositions but I'd rather he and JustJP do analysis of songs/albums/bands they know really well rather than completely 'blank' reactions.  Especially with progressive material, it takes a few listens for the composition to sink in.  Maybe Doug with his learning and experience is able to say much more in those instant reactions but compare that to his detailed analysis of Firth of the Fifth and it's obvious he has a lot more to say when he is well prepared.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2021 at 08:52
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

...
When is the last time you heard Spocks Beard, TFK, VdGG and Magma on YouTube?? (I don't think he cared for Magma at all LOL)
As well most rock fans have no clue who Riverside is, so I think he has listened to his fan base an reacted to non traditional prog rock.

It's all meant for entertainment and in his case he is trying to delve deeper than others by describing the musical elements, rather than just saying he likes it, that's cool or wow!!!
...

Hi,

For many of us here at PA, having heard the groups you mentioned defeats your purpose. We were "there" and heard them all at the time they came out. I was into VdGG as of 1972 and Magma about the same time. The other two when they came out, although I did not exactly think that Spock's Beard was that great. Good yes. Nice yes. Great NO.

Riverside is a different story and one that DD did not discuss. It was the dark side of the band having lost members. I did not, and do not, think that Riverside is about the chords or the notes, as much as it is about their feelings about what they are doing, which they seem to color very well. In this sense, they are very progressive, in a way that we do not want to discuss as the wording would be way too personal to make a serious context to discuss anything. 

The other thing, about Riverside, is that it has come on in the past few years and they are OF THIS TIME AND PLACE, thus a lot of their music has parts that are recognizable to today's listening audience. And this is a very tough issue ... few people here, even bother listening to something that is as different as Gentle Giant and Magma some 50 years ago. Hell, go to check out Damo's thing, and there are some groups in there listed that are trying to do different things, that are reminiscent of the world of progressive music 50 years ago ... and the number of PA folks that even bother listening and commenting? NEGLIGEABLE! Because they have to go and re-listen to their favorite after 33 listens!!!!!Confused

And all it says, is that PA is not quite helping bring the "music" to the fans ... only the top five or ten, and continually supporting and adding to threads about the same thing in these top bands. Yeah, I could say I'm tired of it, but I know these are new fans, but WE ARE NOT HELPING THESE FOLKS UNDERSTAND THE MUSIC THAT MADE SOMETHING THAT WE CALL PROGRESSIVE. We are making it all look like it has to be a top five or ten, for these folks to have any idea ... and as such, we are the overlords of the new world of Childhood's Ending! We are killing the very thing we think we are trying to save because we don't know, or believe, in the "NEW" and "EXPERIMENTAL" work that developed into the PROGRESSIVE some 50 years ago ... in fact, the one thing that a lot of folks here hate, is the HISTORY of the music, because it tears apart at the fabric of the cardboard description of "progressive music" and then the history of its blue guitars and flying organs, instead of the music itself ... heck, the majority of folks here can't even see how "classical" so much of Keith Emerson's music was and is, and is played by so many in various orchestras ... because it is not a song ... a mucking song! 




Edited by moshkito - October 15 2021 at 08:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2021 at 09:27
OK, Doug says "And that's a flat third."

So now all you non musicians know. 

And how's that added to your day, then ? ;-)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2021 at 09:54
I'd much rather listen to a Sufi musician, Mali drummer or Navaho chanter give their opinions on the music, but I guess that's never going to happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2021 at 11:44
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

OK, Doug says "And that's a flat third."

So now all you non musicians know. 

And how's that added to your day, then ? ;-)
I actually knew what a flat third was, but I enjoy him when he speaks about music I care about (like A Plague of lighthouse keepers) nevertheless. I guess he is just better at speaking about music than most other musicians (such as yourself) - to us non musicians. Many musicians seem to enjoy him too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2021 at 12:58
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I'd much rather listen to a Sufi musician, Mali drummer or Navaho chanter give their opinions on the music, but I guess that's never going to happen.

Hi,

Even though Mr. RF did not allow DD's reaction to KC, I wonder about things like this ... it sounds something like ... the video, or comments, were so far out of touch with the reality as to sound silly!

Just saw an interview with Ry Cooder, and there was something in there that was far out ... someone had prepared a book of his material with tablature and all that, and was going to market it ... and Ry, after seeing it said it was all wrong ... "what about the tunings?". I can see Mr. RF stating the same thing and DD having a rough time finding a chord because the tuning made it different. Same thing with Chris Squire, who was known to have different tunings on his bass for different pieces, and what would "normally" be this chord or that chord. all of a sudden was sounding so different and far out that everyone wondered how it was done ... in one interview CS said ... easy ... he loved playing around with tunings.

My comments still stand ... DD's work is (for me!!!) middle of the road, and afraid to tackle the really big ones properly. Some will state about his academic history and various amount of work doing all sorts of things, but (in general) I think that some of that stuff is methodical and mechanical for the most part, and is much easier to interpret and define, than anything else. He can sound good on middle of the road material but when it came to GG, Magma, or Frank Zappa he fumbled. Big time, specially when he even stated that this part might have been a hint of another part later  (Magma) on the piece, and the one he did was half of it, and he did not have the discipline to study this further before doing one ... that was easier, than most Magma material.

There are some nice things, but, for example, listening to Rick Wright ... it's all major notes ... and how did they get that sound ... things that I think would have been more interesting if he had studied it a bit more to find out. And I think he is afraid of "improvisation" since RW's stuff in Echoes is very much a sort of continuation of his ability to float that was a part of PF for a couple of years right after Syd, which gave him time to explore a lot more, and all of the members did, until DSOTM, and after that their freedom stopped! 

I appreciate him doing Echoes, but it makes me wonder how he would take to ATM, which was also done with the help of Ron Geesin who has credits as a composer and musician on his own, which would have given ATM a few more choice bits to work on ... nope!


Edited by moshkito - October 18 2021 at 13:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2021 at 03:57
Hocus Pocus
 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chaser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2021 at 04:04
Funny - I came across this review and watched it yesterday!

Have to say that I didn't know that Iron Maiden had covered Hocus Pocus (but then I'm not a heavy metal fan)

Neither of the covers came anywhere near the original IMO

I'm glad he showed the video of the American TV show recording, where Focus play the track in 4 minutes! It's a great watch that I'd recommend to anyone

I agree with Doug as well that the speeded up version is better than the original album version
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2021 at 13:42
Some more Yes:
 
 
And You And I
 
 
The Revealing Science of God
 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snicolette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2021 at 14:29
Just had a chance to catch up with some of The Daily Doug...he actually took a suggestion of mine and took on Marillion's "Estonia," which I was pretty sure he'd enjoy, the version with "Friends From The Orchestra."  Smile


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2021 at 03:55
Mastodon - Oblivion (from Crack the Skye)
 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2021 at 17:28
Originally posted by Snicolette Snicolette wrote:

Just had a chance to catch up with some of The Daily Doug...he actually took a suggestion of mine and took on Marillion's "Estonia," which I was pretty sure he'd enjoy, the version with "Friends From The Orchestra."  Smile


Yea, I am sure he will almost love everything from Marillion, I mean what's not to love!! Big smile Seriously the music they create is excellent and the lyrics can be very intense and deep at times.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snicolette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2021 at 17:34
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Yea, I am sure he will almost love everything from Marillion, I mean what's not to love!! Big smile Seriously the music they create is excellent and the lyrics can be very intense and deep at times.
  I was pretty sure he would like that one, especially with the orchestra, with his background.  I do like that he takes the time to discuss the lyrics as well, and he has a good grasp of the poetic aspects of lyrics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2021 at 18:36
I saw part of the one he did for "hocus pocus." I don't necessarily approve of what he was doing in that video but I suppose it's legal where he lives. ;)
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